Being in contemplative prayer for hours at a time?

[Robert_Sock]

Right now I often spend 1-2 hours in contemplative prayer, often switching between passive and active contemplation. However, I feel that now able to go into a deep, trance-like, contemplative state of mind for several hours at a time and I was wondering if it was advisable?

 

[Bookcat]

Seek out a good spiritual director.

And lay before him what your referring to.

(especially the “trance like” aspect you mention)

 

[Roseeurekacross]

This is a discussion to have with your Priest. And perhaps a good health professional. The term ’ trance like’ is above an internet persons pay scale so to speak.

I will pray for proper real life guidance for you

 

[Robert_Sock]

I just chose the word trance-like, but “trance-like” may be replaced with “passive.” I’m more concerned with how many hours should one seek? Would 2-3 hours be OK? How many hours at a time would a true contemplative monk use?

 

[Michael_Mayo]

I just chose the word trance-like, but “trance-like” may be replaced with “passive.” I’m more concerned with how many hours should one seek? Would 2-3 hours be OK? How many hours at a time would a true contemplative monk use?

A monk integrates contemplation into active work, study, and liturgy as well as sitting passive. And that would be different foe each individual.

 

[puzzledtoo]

I’d like to share part of a quote I have that I think is appropriate for this thread.

 "...Don't just sit and meditate or stand on your head for an hour at a time. Your ego will be boosted if you stand on your head that long.."

 - Swami Satchidananda -

 Just food for thought.

 

[Sirach2]

I just chose the word trance-like, but “trance-like” may be replaced with “passive.” I’m more concerned with how many hours should one seek? Would 2-3 hours be OK? How many hours at a time would a true contemplative monk use?

In reading many of your posts over the years, I believe you are a sincere and devout person of deep prayer. It is not surprising to find that the enemy will attempt to persuade you that what you are experiencing is contemplative prayer. Do you have St. Teresa of Avila’s Collected Works, Vol. 3? If so, read Chapter 6 [The Foundations] wherein she describes the dangers of “absorption” that some of her nuns fell into. If you do not have it, perhaps I can type it out for you privately. She is warning her prioresses to be on the alert regarding this bodily weakness, as she called it.

I will print only a small part of this which may bring some light for you to share with a director. However, it is sometimes very difficult to find a spiritual director who is familiar with this and capable of directing you.

1. You could ask me what difference there is between this absorption and rapture, since the two are the same, at least in appearance – and you would be right as regards appearance but not as regards reality. For in rapture, or union of all the faculties, as I say, the duration is short, and great effects, interior light, and many other benefits are given, and the intellect doesn’t work. It is the Lord who works in the will.

In the absorption, things are very difference, for although the body is captive, **the will is not, nor is the memory or the intellect. ** But these faculties carry on their delirious activity, and if they rest in something, they will perhaps go back and forth over it with ifs and buts

God bless you, Robert.

 

[pianistclare]

In reading many of your posts over the years, I believe you are a sincere and devout person of deep prayer. It is not surprising to find that the enemy will attempt to persuade you that what you are experiencing is contemplative prayer. Do you have St. Teresa of Avila’s Collected Works, Vol. 3? If so, read Chapter 6 [The Foundations] wherein she describes the dangers of “absorption” that some of her nuns fell into. If you do not have it, perhaps I can type it out for you privately. She is warning her prioresses to be on the alert regarding this bodily weakness, as she called it.

I will print only a small part of this which may bring some light for you to share with a director. However, it is sometimes very difficult to find a spiritual director who is familiar with this and capable of directing you.

God bless you, Robert.

THIS^^^^

 

[Sirach2]

Blessed be God who helps those who trust in Him. I found another reference where St. Teresa herself experienced this absorption, and spoke about it in the third person.
Interior Castle IV Mansion, Chapter 3, Section 11. This may not presently apply to you, but when you mentioned a type of trance, for several hours, it is something to be aware of.

 

[Robert_Sock]

In reading many of your posts over the years, I believe you are a sincere and devout person of deep prayer. It is not surprising to find that the enemy will attempt to persuade you that what you are experiencing is contemplative prayer. Do you have St. Teresa of Avila’s Collected Works, Vol. 3? If so, read Chapter 6 [The Foundations] wherein she describes the dangers of “absorption” that some of her nuns fell into. If you do not have it, perhaps I can type it out for you privately. She is warning her prioresses to be on the alert regarding this bodily weakness, as she called it.

I will print only a small part of this which may bring some light for you to share with a director. However, it is sometimes very difficult to find a spiritual director who is familiar with this and capable of directing you.

God bless you, Robert.

I would be most appreciative if you could simply scan that chapter and attach the pages in a private email.

One of the biggest problems facing me right now is that I’m in retirement and desperately want to greatly reduce the amount of time I waste on the Internet. I do not like reading, exercising, or doing just about anything else besides listening prayer! I do listen to the Daily Mass through the Internet every day, watch the daily video of the Tanya (a Jewish book on mysticism from Chabad), watch an excellent video of the daily Holy Rosary, and I read and meditate on a chapter from The Imitation of Christ daily. But this just takes up a relatively small about of the hours of the day, and I would like to spend much more time in prayer, especially listening prayer. I love contemplation, and I feel that I greatly benefit from it spiritually.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

That book can be downloaded for free. Just do a search.

However, You need advice and guidance from a Priest. To try to follow such a book without correct direction will lead to error.

Even the term contemplative state is drought with danger.

Do you go to Mass, Robert?

 

[Robert_Sock]

That book can be downloaded for free. Just do a search.

However, You need advice and guidance from a Priest. To try to follow such a book without correct direction will lead to error.

Even the term contemplative state is drought with danger.

Do you go to Mass, Robert?

I already did a search and could not find a free download of that particular book. I’m afraid of asking a priest because I do not believe most priests are that familiar with St Theresa of Avila like a true Carmelite would be. I do have the address to a Carmelite Website, and I will take my question there if it cannot get answered here on this thread.

Yes, I go to church every Sunday, and I watch the Daily Mass through the Internet.

 

[Sirach2]

Robert, I will follow your suggestion and scan those pages for you. I’ll get back to you later this morning.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

I already did a search and could not find a free download of that particular book. I’m afraid of asking a priest because I do not believe most priests are that familiar with St Theresa of Avila like a true Carmelite would be. I do have the address to a Carmelite Website, and I will take my question there if it cannot get answered here on this thread.

Yes, I go to church every Sunday, and I watch the Daily Mass through the Internet.

Robert.

Trust your Priests. They go to Priest school for years. They know all about Prayer. They offer excellent advice for free!

Not even a Saint would do their own thing, they all had Spiritual Advisors. We all need grounding.

 

[Sirach2]

Robert.

Trust your Priests. They go to Priest school for years. They know all about Prayer. They offer excellent advice for free!

Not even a Saint would do their own thing, they all had Spiritual Advisors. We all need grounding.

It’s not common for priests to understand or even experience mystical states of prayer. Studying about it is far different from experience. St. Teresa, and myself also, found very little help from confessors. It causes much spiritual havoc if a priest does not know how to direct these souls. St. Teresa suffered greatly from bad advice and warned about this in her writings.

 

[Rosebud77]

A lot of the "I " word, OP and do you see the fruit of prayer as???

 

[Roseeurekacross]

It’s not common for priests to understand or even experience mystical states of prayer. Studying about it is far different from experience. St. Teresa, and myself also, found very little help from confessors. It causes much spiritual havoc if a priest does not know how to direct these souls. St. Teresa suffered greatly from bad advice and warned about this in her writings.

Ah yes but, She wrote and taught her nuns. She advised them to speak with her. And she wrote because she was advised to. And she was a religious. So again, she was ahead of the 8 ball in general understanding. Nuns go through an educated process too.

And I disagree with you about Priests not knowing about Prayer, mystical or general Prayer. They don’t live in a prayer bubble, and they do know much more then us about spirituality, unless we are St Padre Pio. But he was a Priest. Too.

Have a look at the Jesuits . They all do the Spiritual Exercises at least twice.

Studying = understanding and insight, knowing how to discern correctly.

Studying doesn’t = trance like states, but it gives knowing.
I don’t have to have cancer to diagnose it in you. I have to study iit though.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I believe it’s not a trance-like experience, but rather, a state where you’re focus of intention is resting in the presence of God. One of the things with interior prayer, the experience often can’t be shared with words and each person’s experience is their own.

There is a peace and tranquility in this state and outside distractions, including physical distractions, are not apparent. Even the sacred prayer word ceases to be used as you are totally in awe, being in the presence of God dwelling within.

Thank God for it, for it’s the result of His grace, not the result of anything you’ve done.

Being retired allows for long hours of prayer, and this is good.

Always allow God to bring you where He wants you and if you can get a good spiritual director, follow their advice.

In all, remember that God leads, we follow.

Jim

 

[Sirach2]

Robert,
I couldn’t find any way to upload an attachment in a private message. Since the book is available to anyone who orders a copy, I don’t see any harm in printing the pertinent pages I spoke to you about. You will need to print them out to read them.

 

[Sirach2]

Here is the excerpt I mentioned from Interior Castle, where St. Teresa describes this condition.

There is one peril of which I want to warn you, though I have spoken of it elsewhere; I have seen persons given to prayer fall into it, and especially women, for, as we are weaker than men, we run more risk of what I am going to describe. It is this: some women, because of prayers, vigils and severe penances, and also for other reasons, have poor health. When they experience any spiritual consolation, therefore, their physical nature is too much for them; and as soon as they feel any interior joy there comes over them a physical weakness and languor, and they fall into a sleep, which they call “spiritual”, and which is a little more marked than the condition that has been described. Thinking the one state to be the same as the other, they abandon themselves to this absorption; and the more they relax, the more complete becomes this absorption, because their physical nature continues to grow weaker. So they get it into their heads that it is arrobamiento, or rapture. But I call it abobamiento, foolishness;[107] for they are doing nothing but wasting their time at it and ruining their health.

One person [St. Teresa] was in this state for eight hours; she was not unconscious, **nor was she conscious of anything concerning God. **She was cured by being told to take more food and sleep and to do less penance; for, though she had misled both her confessor and other people and, quite involuntarily, deceived herself, there was one person who understood her. I believe the devil would go to any pains to gain such people as that and he was beginning to make good progress with this one.

It must be understood that although, when this state is something that really comes from God, there may be languor, both interior and exterior, there will be none in the soul, which, when it finds itself near God, is moved with great joy. The experience does not last long, but only for a little while. Although the soul may become absorbed again, yet this kind of prayer, as I have said, except in cases of physical weakness, does not go so far as to overcome the body or to produce in it any exterior sensation.

Folks, please understand that I am not alleging that Robert is experiencing this condition, but it is something worth discerning with the help of a good director who is familiar with Carmelite spirituality and various contemplative prayer experiences. The Enemy will go to no small lengths to try and deceive a holy prayerful person.