Being Judged by Another Catholic

[Mystical_Seeker]

I just realized something. If a person is “judgmental” then I judge that person for judging.

Then I recognize that I have judged the person who judges, and judge myself for doing it.

But I also justify myself with ego that thinks there is a purpose to judging, and suddenly recognize that Jesus was pretty judgmental in Matt 23, and I used His words in an imaginary ego attack against this other guy, having “properly observed” of course so that I may – like Jesus – make a “right” judgment based on only what I can see. Which is all I have, so really I can never be complete certain that I am absolutely right.

Can a bad tree bear good fruit, or a good tree bear bad fruit? Well assuming adequate growing conditions, no and no.

Jesus said the tongue is used to bless God and curse other men. Further, it isn’t what goes into a person’s mouth, but what comes out that reveals what is inside. So since both blessing and cursing issue from the same tongue the only conclusion is that we cannot model any given tongue as either good or bad, because Jesus is pointing out that if it were, we would not have mixed up behavior but in fact we all do.

the tree must be neither good nor bad. It only issues forth good or bad behavior.

 

[multitude]

Judge the action, not the person.

I’ve had Catholics/Christians shut me out many years ago, and I used to deem it as pomposity, but not anymore. There’s a fair chance our seemingly uptight buddy enjoyed rock even more so than OP did, actually. So much so that he wanted nothing to do with it anymore. Because that’s one of the ways in which he has discerned how he develops a proclivity to sin. And it just so happened that OP got what he perceived to be the short stick of his behaviour.

Don’t worry. If you still can’t find friends, Jesus and Mary will be your friends

 

[codefro]

In social networking I have asked a fellow Catholic to be my friend, this was someone who I had found via another friend and I liked some of his content, so as I always I request to be a friend and usually the majority of the time they accept or they tell me they don’t accept people they don’t know, which is fine if someone feels they need to know you personally I have no issue with that.

However, this Catholic refused to be my friend based on the following points:

He said “I am a bit confused by your page…” he then asked “Are you Catholic?”

(of course, I’m a cradle Catholic!) … I asked why confused??

**He said ** “You have references to the Catholic faith on your page but also seem to have much material in reference to “heavy metal” rock music as well. Am I misunderstanding something?”

(At this point I knew things were getting weird “much material” was really not honest, in the whole “metal” genre, I only like a few bands and none are satanic, hateful, etc, most of the bands on my page are smart, thoughtful, progressive rock and so on)

I asked him “I am Catholic, are you saying because you think I listen to heavy metal you won’t be my friend?”

*He said *** “I was simply asking about it, trying to get to know you a bit before adding you. I recently added someone else whom I assumed to be a good Catholic and found out otherwise. I regard rock music as spiritually unhealthy.”

I asked him if he thought ALL genres of music were spiritually unhealthy?

He said “No, of course not. Why would I?”

I said… "well, you have suggested one form is bad and spiritually unhealthy, why not all bad?"

**He said ** "I think that rock music is what would be called by the ancient Greeks and by Nietzsche a “Dionysian” form of music, one that is meant to agitate the passions in a disordered way such that they tend to overcome the reason. In particular Rock music is angry, violent, and egotistic. I’m not saying that the genre hasn’t produced any music of value but in general I think it’s spiritually harmful, as well as the youth culture that accompanies it."

I asked what he listens to…

He said “I don’t listen to music much because the contemplation of truth is much more interesting to me, but I tend to like the folk music of Mexico for example (where I live), and especially Gregorian Chant in the mass, as well as Sacred Polyphony.”

This is where I stopped replying.

For him to make a baseless statement and say ALL rock music (or things he doesn’t listen to or know anything about is ridiculous!) and for him to say it’s all “angry, violent and egotistic” is just unrealistic. Yes, if you look for it you can find that sort of thing but all music I listen to have none of those elements. His judgment on me based on my listening choices just baffles me. I’ve heard of “holier than thou” types but this just takes the cake!

Am I so wrong? I can’t glorify God in a different way than he does? If I listen to a Rock band signing about Jesus and he listens to Gregorian Chants (which I appreciate) why am I so bad?

Thoughts?

Basically a Traddy- no need to be put off. It sounds like this person has put a lot of thought into this subject and wishes to live off those thoughtful outcomes. Personally, I like some metal bands like Metallica, so I don’t agree with them. Some metal music can be just as talented as folk music, and one need not lose their passions over it.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

Let’s take a look at an example.

“Closer to the Heart” is a rock song by what many rock fans consider the greatest band ever, Rush, with the greatest members who are both excellent musicians and do amazing things to keep their humility. If you want to see a pretty interesting person, consider Niel Peart (neel pee-urt). Their music advances in maturity as they go along, and they have now been popular for three generations starting with mine.

First let’s take a look at the lyrics, and see how they manipulate unsuspecting Christian minds into spreading evil lies and rumors…

“Closer To The Heart”

And the men who hold high places
Must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality
Closer to the heart
Closer to the heart
The blacksmith and the artist
Reflect it in their art
They forge their creativity
Closer to the heart
Closer to the heart

Philosophers and ploughmen
Each must know his part
To sow a new mentality
Closer to the heart
Closer to the heart
You can be the captain
I will draw the chart
Sailing into destiny
Closer to the heart

To me it sounds like they are trying to fool people into thinking this is a gospel value, by using the term “heart” all well knowing that Good Christians want to have a good heart. But the danger lies in all of the hidden messages that are clear to those who can read between the lines and see the motives and the diabolical messages intended to persuade hundreds of thousands of Christians at a time, to work unwittingly for the nefarious projects of Satan.

Now notice it says you can be the captain, but I will draw the chart. This is a statement about mankind’s relationship with God. It foreshadows a lack of trust in the Holy Spirit, and a refusal of mankind to surrender its will to God. It says it will “you can be the captain” which implies surrender of ones will “not my will but Yours be done” but the problem is it goes right into advocating faith with no works as a way that life should be. This is to undermine the work of Catholics who participate in charitable causes, and may result in starvation of those least able to do anything about it.

Now it doesn’t say that. If it did, no Christian would believe it. But it goes subtle and pretends that we will be in service to God, but notice it does not say “I will draw YOUR chart,” but in fact “I will draw THE chart.” That implies that mankind knows the way to heaven or can figure it out, and is an attempt by Satan to delude all of creation into ignoring Solid Biblical History and attempting to buy a Stairway to Heaven in a grand but much much worse version of the Tower of Babel – that will consume may generations in an effort to get to God on their own merit.

At this time, if you know the history, you would know that the path was cleared many years prior by a band that some people idolize over God. The name Led Zeppelin is a little seed that the liar planted into the previous generation and mine, priming the pump as it were, for the destruction process to be fulfilled in the Rush song. This song was prefigured by the Hindenberg disaster. And “Rush” should tell you another problem because this intended to counter the lesson of Mary and Martha.

So if you have an eye for evil, you can see that this song which seems to promote loving and caring values, is anything but. The comments above are only a sample… forge, high places, it’s all there. Books could be written about the evils of this song which has been listened to hundreds of millions times by mortal human ears. No wonder things are as they are, right?

If you dare jump into the rabbit hole after all of that, and still want to view this video, be ready to pause it if you feel any particular strange anxiety or fear. And for gosh sakes look at the hair… is it any wonder we have gay marriage when we have this guy as a role model?

Rush - Closer To The Heart

In case anybody wonders whether I really believe this, go ahead and wonder. It is intended as satire, but exactly the kind of reasoning I’d have to use if I were to paint this song as evil “just because” it is in the “Rock” genre.

Just sayin’

 

[Allegra]

Let’s take a look at an example.

“Closer to the Heart” is a rock song by what many rock fans consider the greatest band ever, Rush, with the greatest members who are both excellent musicians and do amazing things to keep their humility. If you want to see a pretty interesting person, consider Niel Peart (neel pee-urt). Their music advances in maturity as they go along, and they have now been popular for three generations starting with mine.

First let’s take a look at the lyrics, and see how they manipulate unsuspecting Christian minds into spreading evil lies and rumors…

“Closer To The Heart”

And the men who hold high places
Must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality
Closer to the heart
Closer to the heart
The blacksmith and the artist
Reflect it in their art
They forge their creativity
Closer to the heart
Closer to the heart

Philosophers and ploughmen
Each must know his part
To sow a new mentality
Closer to the heart
Closer to the heart
You can be the captain
I will draw the chart
Sailing into destiny
Closer to the heart

To me it sounds like they are trying to fool people into thinking this is a gospel value, by using the term “heart” all well knowing that Good Christians want to have a good heart. But the danger lies in all of the hidden messages that are clear to those who can read between the lines and see the motives and the diabolical messages intended to persuade hundreds of thousands of Christians at a time, to work unwittingly for the nefarious projects of Satan.

Now notice it says you can be the captain, but I will draw the chart. This is a statement about mankind’s relationship with God. It foreshadows a lack of trust in the Holy Spirit, and a refusal of mankind to surrender its will to God. It says it will “you can be the captain” which implies surrender of ones will “not my will but Yours be done” but the problem is it goes right into advocating faith with no works as a way that life should be. This is to undermine the work of Catholics who participate in charitable causes, and may result in starvation of those least able to do anything about it.

Now it doesn’t say that. If it did, no Christian would believe it. But it goes subtle and pretends that we will be in service to God, but notice it does not say “I will draw YOUR chart,” but in fact “I will draw THE chart.” That implies that mankind knows the way to heaven or can figure it out, and is an attempt by Satan to delude all of creation into ignoring Solid Biblical History and attempting to buy a Stairway to Heaven in a grand but much much worse version of the Tower of Babel – that will consume may generations in an effort to get to God on their own merit.

At this time, if you know the history, you would know that the path was cleared many years prior by a band that some people idolize over God. The name Led Zeppelin is a little seed that the liar planted into the previous generation and mine, priming the pump as it were, for the destruction process to be fulfilled in the Rush song. This song was prefigured by the Hindenberg disaster. And “Rush” should tell you another problem because this intended to counter the lesson of Mary and Martha.

So if you have an eye for evil, you can see that this song which seems to promote loving and caring values, is anything but. The comments above are only a sample… forge, high places, it’s all there. Books could be written about the evils of this song which has been listened to hundreds of millions times by mortal human ears. No wonder things are as they are, right?

If you dare jump into the rabbit hole after all of that, and still want to view this video, be ready to pause it if you feel any particular strange anxiety or fear. And for gosh sakes look at the hair… is it any wonder we have gay marriage when we have this guy as a role model?

Rush - Closer To The Heart

In case anybody wonders whether I really believe this, go ahead and wonder. It is intended as satire, but exactly the kind of reasoning I’d have to use if I were to paint this song as evil “just because” it is in the “Rock” genre.

Just sayin’

You had me really worried for a moment there.

 

[Mystical_Seeker]

You had me really worried for a moment there.

I like that. If you were worried, that makes me think I was successful at staying near the line of “I’m sincere” v “dismissing an entire genre as evil looks ridiculous.” :whackadoo:

My sincerity is in the latter. :sad_yes:

Thank you for the feedback. There certainly are rock songs with “evil” lyrics, but ignorant people tend to generalize to keep things simple… if one rock song is evil, they all are. “Standing on that conviction” excuses them from any responsibility for learning anything about that which they condemn. kpeople:

Kind of like, if one member of is evil, then they all must be.

God Forbid they actually open their eyes, ears, minds, and hearts and see Truth. :bible1:

This is like dismissing a person as evil because he sins. The tongue blesses God and curses other people, so obviously humans are neither “good” or “bad” trees, or it would be impossible. We are just humans, with our hearts filled with Living Water and Light, but our waterproof bushel baskets prevent our hearts from both showing their love, and from being able to see it in others. :grouphug:

MS