being late for mass

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1ke said:
I’m sure you are not aware, but angel is blind. She is dependent upon her parents or public transportation (which runs a reduced schedule on Sundays). She also has additional issues with her parents I will not go into here, but suffice it to say that if she rocks the boat her parents will retaliate by refusing to take her to mass. And unfortunately, angel also tends towards scruples.

Angel-- you have done your best to fulfill your obligation. You have done your best to be on time. Now, be at peace. You are not sinning.
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1know, thanks for enlightening me about Angel’s situation.

Angel is in a predicament, for sure.

Angel, do you have neighbors that go to your church that could take you? Or would that make your parents upset?
 
Graceful_Lamb said:
Angel, do you have neighbors that go to your church that could take you? Or would that make your parents upset?
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That is a serious issue as her parents do not want her to get rides with others. That has been the subject of a number of Angel’s posts in the past. They can be very hard on her.

Angel’s situation is complex. Her scruples exacerbate the situation.

Angel is not sinning.
 
mattp0625 said:
I’m glad you agree and I understand your point.

We could discuss valid apostolic succession and real presence, but that’s another thread.

That said, I cannot account for all 30,000 Protestant denominations. 🙂
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I don’t know where in my answer that you saw that I was agreeing with you.

As for the 30,000 Protestant Denominations, I am only talking about the one that I belong to right one.
 
Graceful_Lamb said:
I don’t know where in my answer that you saw that I was agreeing with you.

As for the 30,000 Protestant Denominations, I am only talking about the one that I belong to right one.
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We agreed one shouldn’t be late for mass if you can help it.

Start a new thread if you like. I don’t want to get this one too off track. However, it’s not possible to be a Protestant Church and at the same time have apostolic succession.
 
mattp0625 said:
We agreed one shouldn’t be late for mass if you can help it.

Start a new thread if you like. I don’t want to get this one too off track. However, it’s not possible to be a Protestant Church and at the same time have apostolic succession.
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what does apostolic succession have to do with being late for Mass?
 
1ke said:
That is a serious issue as her parents do not want her to get rides with others. That has been the subject of a number of Angel’s posts in the past. They can be very hard on her.

Angel’s situation is complex. Her scruples exacerbate the situation.

Angel is not sinning.
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That definite makes things more complex. I understand more now. Thanks. 🙂
 
1ke said:
There is NO Church document stating this. None. Nada. It’s a myth.
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It is no myth. In The Catechism Explained by Fr. Spirago (Imprimatur 1921) it says,
There are three distinct parts in the sacrifice of the Mass: the offertory, the consecration, and the communion … We have not heard a whole Mass, unless we have been present in the church during the three principal parts of one and the same Mass - It is requisite to be present at the three principal parts of the Mass; if one of these is omitted through negligence, the obligation is not fulfilled; if, for instance, we do not come in before the offertory, or if we leave before the communion.
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Also, in Treasure and Tradition The Ultimate Guide to the Latin Mass (Imprimatur 2014) it says,
The Offertory is one of the most important ceremonies of the Mass. In order to fulfill our obligation to attend Mass on Sundays and Holy days, we must be present by this point.
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Confiteor_Deo said:
It is no myth. In The Catechism Explained by Fr. Spirago (Imprimatur 1921) it says,
Also, in Treasure and Tradition The Ultimate Guide to the Latin Mass (Imprimatur 2014) it says,
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This is the key thing: what constitutes the Sacrifice.

Yes, we will not find any documents that state “thou shalt be at this point, otherwise thou hast missed Mass”. But a reasoned, educated deduction will tell us what the Mass is. The Sacrifice consists of three things: the Offertory, the Consecration, and the Communion of the Priest.

Attendance at these three points is the bare minimum for participation in the Sacrifice (and therefore attendance at Mass). Again, there is no “thou shalt…” document, but this flows from sound catechesis on the Sacrifice of the Mass. Arrive late, but before Offertory, and/or leave early, but after the Communion of the priest under the species of Wine, and technically, you’re good.

Of course, I struggle to see how one who would cavalierly stick to the “bare minimum” can attain salvation. Such a person is likely to fall away completely anyway.
 
1ke said:
That is a serious issue as her parents do not want her to get rides with others. That has been the subject of a number of Angel’s posts in the past. They can be very hard on her.

Angel’s situation is complex. Her scruples exacerbate the situation.

Angel is not sinning.
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well, actualy, it’s more like they don’t like people knowing where we live.

so the issue is getting rides from people who don’t already have that information

I actually think neighbors would be fine, since I mean, inevitably, they obviously know where we live, since they’re next door.

but no, none of them are catholic, to my knowledge

and if they are willing to come with me, that would be a little weird anyways.

I was not actually that scrupulous about it this time. just wanted to double check. it’s not something that I really want to make a big issue out of

things in general have actually been a lot better lately
 
Confiteor_Deo said:
It is no myth. In The Catechism Explained by Fr. Spirago (Imprimatur 1921) it says,
Also, in Treasure and Tradition The Ultimate Guide to the Latin Mass (Imprimatur 2014) it says,
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Neither of those is a Church document.

You will not find a Church document with such a statement. There is not one. Not canon law, not any other document.
 
angell1 said:
is it something that can vary between dioceses?

because everyone I’ve talked to says, if you’ve missed the gospel, you’ve essentially missed mass, priests included.

apparently it has to do with our current archbishop having a policy of not relaly wanting communion distributed outside of a mass context unless strictly necessary.
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The standard was always if you missed the offetory, you failed to make your Sunday Obligation. Some parishes would ring the bells when the chalice veil was being removed to signal to the people outside smoking that they needed to get inside to fulfill their obligation.
 
angell1 said:
so it’s almost inevitable that if I go to mass with my paren dots, we will be late. not significantly, maybe the latest is arriving during the Gloria

they’re just late for nearly everything they go to. well mosleast tly my mom, I guess. she’s just not that time conscious and doesn’t think a few minutes is a big deal

I wake them up at 8:30 or 9 on sundays so they have enough time to get ready and I try to have breakfast going so they can focus on other stuff they need to do

but yesterday, the priest said during the homily that if you miss th act of contrition, it can be a grave sin already.

but what am I supposed to do if we’re all driving together? and we have to wait for that one person?

I try to tell them but then I just get “well, we don’t have to go to mass at 11” but when we attend evening mass, it’s the same story.

at least it’s been a bit of an improvement, half the time, they didn’t use to want to go because they thought reading the bible at home was the same thing, at least now, they will come with me every week.

I just don’t want it to be grave matter for me in this case, I can’t really do much about how others feel
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God understand your situation and your concerns. If you are trying your best to get your family to mass, He knows. That is all you can do. I am not sure if pressing them for time would work. It may.
 
Deo_Gratias42 said:
The standard was always if you missed the offetory, you failed to make your Sunday Obligation.
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The rampant, undying myth is that if you missed up to X point, you failed to make your obligation. The fact is there is no Church document that says this.

And when I say “myth” I don’t mean that different schools of theology didn’t offer up their hypothesis, or that priest didn’t ring bells, or that priests didn’t give homilies with X, Y, or Z time in them to give people guidelines (particularly the scrupulous).

What I am saying is that it is a myth that the Church actually teaches or legislates this. It doesn’t.
 
1ke said:
The rampant, undying myth is that if you missed up to X point, you failed to make your obligation. The fact is there is no Church document that says this.

And when I say “myth” I don’t mean that different schools of theology didn’t offer up their hypothesis, or that priest didn’t ring bells, or that priests didn’t give homilies with X, Y, or Z time in them to give people guidelines (particularly the scrupulous).

What I am saying is that it is a myth that the Church actually teaches or legislates this. It doesn’t.
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so someone can just show up for 5 minutes and have techinically fulfilled their obligation?

I know, we should be there for the whole mass and it’s all in the general attitude. but I think people do need some sort of guideline somewhere
 
angell1 said:
so someone can just show up for 5 minutes and have techinically fulfilled their obligation?

I know, we should be there for the whole mass and it’s all in the general attitude. but I think people do need some sort of guideline somewhere
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It’s probably more of a matter of setting priorities, which they will have to answer to God for. From your posts I gather you’re giving much to Him.
 
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