Being Modest and Mass

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Modesty or immodesty aside, when I see someone scantily dressed, I wonder if they even own a full-length mirror! Please be charitable with me while I drag out the Catholic curmudgeonette in me. I’m home with the flu, and would normally phrase this in a kinder way.
  1. Folks of both genders, tight clothing doesn’t make you look alluring. It makes you look like you made a few too many repeat trips to the all-you-can-eat buffet!
  2. Nobody is intrigued by your varicose veins, your arm flab, your muffin top, your posterior that looks like you’re trying to take advantage of a sale on new chairs at the furniture store, or your badly fitted bra leaving little to the imagination.
  3. Guys, nobody is interested in seeing your hairy legs, your body hair, or other anatomical features.
Really, if more people knew what they actually looked like in what we frequently refer to as immodest clothing, they’d reach into their closets and get something else to wear! And quite frankly, I don’t understand why so many men consider this such a distraction. It would seem to be no problem at all averting one’s eyes to something else. Anything else!:eek:

Face it, people: Most people look better with more clothes on, not less!
 
Agape11 said:
My priest is liberal on that kind of thing and he would say jeans are fine. 😊 I had to make my own decision on modesty… and veiling.
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our priest is not mortified but…:o at jeans in church so he said in an early sermon. we can’t hear him so well on the altar, but luckily for me I don’ t wear them anyways but we servers are the worst offenders for jeans. but luckily for me just not something I wear
 
severus68 said:
Tell me where in our Cathechism is this Vatican Code of Modesty and if not there, where doe the Vatican publish it?
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Hope this helps.

The “Crusade Against Immodest Fashions, Especially in Schools Directed by Religious,” was ordered by Pope Pius XI on August 23, 1928 and was made known to the world through the Acta Apostolicae Sedis in 1930 (vol. 22, pp. 26-28).
1928 Letter to the Congregation for Religious
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To The Ordinaries of Italy: regarding the crusade against immodest fashions, especially in schools directed by women Religious.
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Circular. Most Illustrious and Reverend Sir, well known to you are the grave words of condemnation which the Holy Father spoke, on several occasions, with apostolic authority, against the immodest fashion of women’s dress which prevails today to the detriment of good breeding.
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Suffice it to recall the very grave words, charged with grief and admonition, with which in the discourse of August 15th current, in the consistorial chamber, promulgating the decree on the heroic virtues of Venerable Paola Frassinetti, His Holiness denounced once again the danger which, by its seductive fascination, threatens so many unwary souls, who profess to belong to the flock of Jesus Christ and to His Holy Church.
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It is painful to point out in this regard that the deplorable custom tends to insinuate itself among young girls who frequent, as extern pupils, some of the schools directed by Sisters and Sunday-school classes which are held in female religious institutions.
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In order to confront a danger which, by spreading, becomes ever more grave, this Sacred Congregation, by order of the Holy Father, calls upon the Ordinaries of Italy so that they may communicate to the superiors of the houses of female religious in their respective dioceses the following injunctions of this Sacred Congregation, confirmed by His Holiness in audience this day:
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a) In all schools, academies, recreation centers, Sunday schools, and laboratories directed by female religious, not to be admitted from now on are those girls who do not observe in their attire the rules of modesty and Christian decency.
b) To this end, the superiors themselves will be obliged to exercise a close supervision and exclude peremptorily from the schools and projects of their institutions those pupils who do not conform to these prescriptions.
c) They must not be influenced in this by any human respect, either for material considerations or by reason of the social prestige and of the families of their pupils, even though the student body should diminish in number.
d) Furthermore, the Sisters, in fulfillment of their educational pursuits, must endeavor to inculcate sweetly and strongly in their pupils the love and relish for holy modesty, the sign and guardian of purity and delicate adornment of womankind.
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Your Reverence will be vigilant that these injunctions be exactly observed and that there be perfect conformity of conduct among all the institutes of female religious in the diocese.
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You will severely call to task whoever should fail in this, and should any abuse be prolonged, you will notify this Sacred Congregation.
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With deepest esteem, I remain,
Devotedly yours,
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G. Cardinal Laurenti, Prefect
Sacred Congregation for Religious
Vincent La Puma, Secretary
Rome, August 23, 1928
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On December 31, 1929 Pope Pius XI promulgated the encyclical Divini Illius Magistri (On the Christian Education of Youth). In it, the Pope emphasizes the importance of modesty for women in public. He writes:

*These principles *, with due regard to time and place, must in accordance with Christian prudence, be applied to all schools, particularly in the most delicate and decisive period of formation, that, namely, of adolescence; and in gymnastic exercises and deportment, special care must be had of Christian modesty in young women and girls, which is so gravely impaired by any kind of exhibition in public. **
 
A couple weeks later, on January 12, 1930, the Pope directed the Sacred Congregation of the Council to issue a strongly-worded Letter on Christian Modesty to the whole world. With it was the following rule as to what constitutes modesty in dress:

A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat, which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows; and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses of transparent material are improper.
1930 Letter of the Congregation of the Council
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By virtue of the supreme apostolate which he wields over the Universal Church by Divine Will, our Most Holy Father Pope Pius XI has never ceased to inculcate, both verbally and by his writings, the words of St. Paul (1 Tim. xi,9-10), namely, “Women … adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety … and professing godliness with good works.”
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Very often, when occasion arose, the same Supreme Pontiff condemned emphatically the immodest fashion of dress adopted by Catholic women and girls – which fashion not only offends the dignity of women and against her adornment, but conduces to the temporal ruin of the women and girls, and, what is still worse, to their eternal ruin, miserably dragging down others in their fall. It is not surprising, therefore, that all Bishops and other ordinaries, as is the duty of ministers of Christ, should in their own dioceses have unanimously opposed their depraved licentiousness and promiscuity of manners, often bearing with fortitude the derision and mockery leveled against them for this cause.
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Therefore this Sacred Council, which watches over the discipline of clergy and people, while cordially commending the action of the Venerable Bishops, most emphatically exhorts them to persevere in their attitude and increase their activities insofar as their strength permits, in order that this unwholesome disease be definitely uprooted from human society.
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In order to facilitate the desired effect, this Sacred Congregation, by the mandate of the Most Holy Father, has decreed as follows:
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(the rest is in the next posting)
 
Here’s the rest:***
Exhortation to Those in Authority
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  1. The parish priest, and especially the preacher, when occasion arises, should, according to the words of the Apostle Paul (2 Tim. iv, 2), insist, argue exhort and command that feminine garb be based on modesty and womanly ornament be a defense of virtue. Let them likewise admonish parents to cause their daughters to cease wearing indecorous dress.
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  1. Parents, conscious of their grave obligations toward the education, especially religious and moral, to their offspring, should see to it that their daughters are solidly instructed, from earliest childhood, in Christian doctrine; and they themselves should assiduously inculcate in their souls, by word and example, love for the virtues of modesty and chastity; and since their family should follow the example of the Holy Family, they must rule in such a manner that all its members, reared within the walls of the home, should find reason and incentive to love and preserve modesty.
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  1. Let parents keep their daughters away from public gymnastic games and contests; but if their daughters are compelled to attend such exhibitions, let them see that they are fully and modestly dressed. Let them never permit their daughters to don immodest garb.
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  1. Superioresses and teachers in schools for girls must do their utmost to instill love of modesty in the hearts of maidens confided to their care and urge them to dress modestly.
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  1. Said Superioresses and teachers must not receive in their colleges and schools immodestly dressed girls, and should not even make an exception in the case of mothers of pupils. If, after being admitted, girls persist in dressing immodestly, such pupils should be dismissed.
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  1. Nuns, in compliance with the Letter dated August 23, 1928, by the Sacred Congregation of Religious, must not receive in their colleges, schools, oratories or recreation grounds, or, if once admitted, tolerate girls who are not dressed with Christian modesty; said Nuns, in addition, should do their utmost so that love for holy chastity and Christian modesty may become deeply rooted in the hearts of their pupils.
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  1. It is desirable that pious organizations of women be founded, which by their counsel, example and propaganda should combat the wearing of apparel unsuited to Christian modesty, and should promote purity of customs and modesty of dress.
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  1. In the pious associations of women those who dress immodestly should not be admitted to membership; but if, perchance, they are received, and after having been admitted, fall again into their error, they should be dismissed forthwith.
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  1. Maidens and women dressed immodestly are to be debarred from Holy Communion and from acting as sponsors at the Sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation; further, if the offense be extreme, they may even be forbidden to enter the church.
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Donato Cardinal Sbaretti, Prefect
Congregation of the Council
Rome, January 12, 1930
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Walking_Home said:
You do know – we have a new catechism of the Catholic Church – don’t you.
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Just a tip – when you use those big long lines in your post, most people are going to ignore your comment below the line, thinking it is your signature.

Just sayin’. 😉

~Liza
 
Colleen_Hammond said:
A couple weeks later, on January 12, 1930, the Pope directed the Sacred Congregation of the Council to issue a strongly-worded Letter on Christian Modesty to the whole world. With it was the following rule as to what constitutes modesty in dress:

A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat, which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows; and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses of transparent material are improper.
(the rest is in the next posting)
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The Church has shown what is appropriate by posting those signs with stick figures outside churches in the Vatican. (I think you have one on your own website) As far as those sleeves to the elbow and skirts only…We have photos of St Gianna Beretta Molla wearing both pants and a dress with sleeves above the elbow. Perhaps we should be looking to her (a canonized saint of our time) or the current signs outside those Vatican churches (which show modest skirts and pants for the ladies) instead of what was written in the context of a different time. Modesty doesn’t “go out of style”, but what constitutes modesty changes in both time and culture. What was described in 1930 in that letter would have been considered scandalous a hundred years before…
 
MrsATurner said:
Hey everyone I had a few questions about Modesty and Mass. I know I am going to get all sorts of different answers and I am interested in hearing everyone.

What are general rules in mass for modesty? I mean I understand no short skirts and no cleavage but what are exact rules? Like how thick must the straps of shirts be? What about pants what is considered too tight?

Another question I have is regarding tattoos. I recently have returned to the Catholic faith but I have a total of 6 tattoos including one on each upper arm, one on my shoulder, a large piece on my chest and small words on my wrists. My chest tattoo stops just below my collar bone. My question is should I make sure that all of my tattoos are covered for mass? The only ones that would be seen would be the top of my chest tattoo and my wrists. Before anyone asks they are not offensive is any way. My wrists are the words “love” and “God” with roses and my chest is a tribal design with roses as well.
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Since you are in the presence of God, I’d say picture what you’d have to wear to the White House, and kick it up a notch from there.
 

Colleen_Hammond said:
A couple weeks later, on January 12, 1930, the Pope directed the Sacred Congregation of the Council to issue a strongly-worded Letter on Christian Modesty to the whole world. With it was the following rule as to what constitutes modesty in dress:

A dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat, which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows; and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses of transparent material are improper.
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LightBound said:
That’s the one!! That sign should be put outside each Church in North America. It gets the idea of what is appropriate across in a pretty basic way! Thanks for posting it!
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NO PROBLEM!!! If it’s good enough for the Pope and the Vatican, it’s good enough for me. 👍
 
“3. Let parents keep their daughters away from public gymnastic games and contests; but if their daughters are compelled to attend such exhibitions, let them see that they are fully and modestly dressed. Let them never permit their daughters to don immodest garb.”

??? As I recall, a papal statement at the same time as this statement discouraged girls and women from participating in sports. Apparently they can’t even attend such. Are we to regard such directives as binding?
 
Tarpeian_Rock said:
“3. Let parents keep their daughters away from public gymnastic games and contests; but if their daughters are compelled to attend such exhibitions, let them see that they are fully and modestly dressed. Let them never permit their daughters to don immodest garb.”

??? As I recall, a papal statement at the same time as this statement discouraged girls and women from participating in sports. Apparently they can’t even attend such. Are we to regard such directives as binding?
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No.
 
Colleen_Hammond said:
NO PROBLEM!!! If it’s good enough for the Pope and the Vatican, it’s good enough for me. 👍
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It sounds like you aren’t, if you go by what was set forth in 1929 then the garb on the bottom would still be considered immodest. In the stick figures the sleeves do not go to the elbow, but cover the shoulders and go to about mid-bicep. I do think that if it is good enough for the Pope and Vatican city then it certainly should be considered modest enough for Mass.
 
1 Corinthians 11:4-7

It says women should cover their head while praying.
 
Does it say for us not to or does it give us an option? I’m pretty sure its leaving it for your BETTER judgement.
 
The Vatican is not anti-Bible… sorry!!! Its just gotten way too liberal.
 
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