Being Prepared & Keeping It Simple

[ronl]

What a fantastic thread.!! Thank you all so much for the love and support that you have shown by taken the time to add to this thread.

It is helping me in gaining more depth and strength of conviction - and certainly is equipping me for whatever conversations I might have in the future

May God Bless You ALL so very richly. It’s good to know that I am not standing out here all alone

Ron

 

[cazayoux]

Ron !

Interesting that this topic come up.
I had a non-Catholic Christian lady at work ask if I would bring her to a mass.
She’s working on her master’s in theology and would get extra points for going to a Catholic mass.

I wanted to send her some prep material before actually bringing her.

Here is the letter I wrote to her.

---

Hi Melissa !

okay … didn't realize this was going to be so long  :)
There are many bits mentioned you might have questions about:  confession, the true presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, …  I'm not shy, so feel free to ask any questions or start any discussions you'd like.
Either way … here is a little insight on the Catholic mass.

__________

Maybe in January I can bring you to mass.
This month I'm ushering, so I wouldn't be able to sit with you through it.

There are two main parts to the mass:  the liturgy of the Word then the liturgy of the Eucharist.
During the liturgy of the Word there is a reading from the Old Testament, a Psalm, a new testament letter, then a reading from the Gospel.
Mass is held every day, but the Sunday mass has one more reading.
The readings usually have a theme between them.
The priests homily typically will tie these together and apply it to our everyday lives.

[usccb.org/nab/](http://www.usccb.org/nab/)
This link shows a calendar so you can find the readings for the daily and Sunday masses.

The second part of the mass is the liturgy of the Eucharist.

Of course, I do not know what you have heard or think about the Catholic Church's practices.
I've heard non-Catholic Christians say that Catholics re-crucify Jesus during the mass.
In no way do we think this is what we are doing.
We actually think we are, in a way, participating in that one true sacrifice of His.

I've also heard non-Catholic Christians say that Catholics are too exclusive because they deny the Eucharist to non-Catholics.  "If that truly is the body and blood of Christ, shouldn't everyone be able to partake?"  We absolutely want everyone to be able to participate.
We truly believe Jesus' body and blood are present in the Eucharist.
Realize that for us this is a huge deal, bigger I think than any other teaching in the church.
I'd say it's the essential teaching of the Catholic Church.
I've discussed the reality of this with non-Catholics before by referring to John 6 and the accounts of the last supper. Whether a non-Catholic agrees or disagrees with our interpretation of this, at least appreciate that this is a central, essential doctrine for us.
Receiving communion is such a big deal to us, that we won't do it ourselves if we do not thing we have done all that we can to prepare for it.  This includes prayer as well as going to confession if we have mortal sin.
As well, receiving communion is a statement that we are in complete 'communion' with the Catholic Church and believe all that she teaches.
I would think that non-Catholic Christians would want to refrain from communion since they do not actually believe all that the Catholic Church teaches including the real presence.

Also, we care for our non-Catholic Christian brothers and sister enough to not want them to possibly, unknowingly do something that scripture warns against.
1 Cor 11:29  For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. 

When a non-Catholic attends mass, they should not receive communion.  The reason for this is not to withhold Christ from the person, but out of charity and love for that person.  I hope you understand this. :)

Even those that do not plan to receive communion (Catholic or otherwise), still will go up and receive a blessing from the priest or Eucharistic Minister.

Here is a pdf showing the mass as a biblical prayer.
 <see attached>


Whew … sorry for the length.
Again, don’t be shy with questions or discussions.
If you are curious, I might at least be able to tell you why Catholics believe what we believe.

Cheers!   Merry Christmas!

michel

 

[Sinner1]

Question 1 - I can’t believe that non Catholics can’t take Communion; would Jesus turn anyone away?

Simple answer: Communion is the most sacred of all Catholic rituals that implies communion with the Church. Thus, those who are not Catholic are asked to take part.

 

[Randy_Carson]

My wife (not a Catholic) attends Mass with me quite regularly during the last 3 months. I hear mumblings of “ritual, ritual, ritual”

Questions are being asked in a less hositle manner lately so I need to keep it as simple as possible.

Question 1 - I can’t believe that non Catholics can’t take Communion; would Jesus turn anyone away?

Ask your wife how many people Jesus actually gave His own Body and Blood.

Answer: 11, and all of them had been discipled for three years by Jesus personally.

He didn’t distribute communion to the crowds on the hillsides, did He?

 

[gr8full]

This is a great thread! I have read things that have helped this RCIA goer understand things more clearly and likely be able to explain things to others who ask more clearly.
I really am gr8full

 

[Cat]

Yes, Jesus said, “I am the Light.” “I am the Door.” etc.

But Jesus never picked up a light or a door and said, 'This light is Me." “This door is me.”

Except…when he took the bread and wine and said, “This Bread is Me. This Wine is Me.”

Simple and straight out of the Bible.

 

[fellowChristian]

1 Corinthians 11:27-29 (King James Version)

27Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

28But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

** 29For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.**

simply put…we love her.
Also many Catholics may not receive Communion either, mostly due to their sins.

Who Can Receive Communion?
catholic.com/library/Who_Can_Receive_Communion.asp

**Malachi’s prediction **

Malachi 1:10-11 (King James Version)

10Who is there even among you that would shut the doors for nought? neither do ye kindle fire on mine altar for nought. I have no pleasure in you, saith the LORD of hosts, neither will I accept an offering at your hand.

11For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the** Gentiles**; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts.

• that the Lord would reject Jewish sacrifices and instead would have “a pure offering” made to him by the Gentiles in every place was seized upon by Christians as a prophecy of the Eucharist. *

The Sacrifice of the Mass
catholic.com/library/Sacrifice_of_the_Mass.asp

Revelation 4:8 (King James Version)

8And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, LORD God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

heaven’s liturgical chant “Holy, Holy, Holy” is the same that is used in the liturgy of the Holy Mass on earth.

Revelation 6:9 (King James Version)

9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

the Roman Catacombs…the saints coffins were used as altars for the Holy Mass/also evry Catholic Church’s altar has the relic of a saint.

Revelation 8:3 (King James Version)

3And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Revelation 15:3-4 (King James Version)

3And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

4Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest.

a recitation of the “Gloria” in heaven

Revelation 19:4

4And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

heaven’s concluding liturgical prayer "Amen"

Revelation 15:5 (King James Version)

5And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:

Sounds like the Holy Mass to me.

 

[grannymh]

This is a great thread! I have read things that have helped this RCIA goer understand things more clearly and likely be able to explain things to others who ask more clearly.
I really am gr8full

Dear gr8full,

You and your comments are appreciated. Thank you.

I can imagine your joy when you finally receive the Real Presence in Holy Communion. How hard it must be for you to wait for that wonderful moment. In the meantime, if possible, find a church or chapel which has Eucharistic Adoration and make visits to Our Lord. Many stop in for 10 minutes. Those simple visits can help prepare anyone for anything.

We have Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration in my parish and I will keep you, as well as all the posters, in my prayers during my 2:00 AM hour on the weekends.

Blessings for 2009
grannymh

 

[japhy]

Yes, Jesus said, “I am the Light.” “I am the Door.” etc. But Jesus never picked up a light or a door and said, 'This light is Me." “This door is me.”

Moreover, he would complete the analogies:

“I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.” (John 6:51)

He is the bread, we eat the bread. (This is the only analogy that Christ made physically present, viz. the Last Supper.)

Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world; he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” (John 8:12)

He is the light, we follow the light.

“I am the door; if any one enters by me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.” (John 10:9)

He is the door, we enter by the door.

“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. … I know my own and my own know me.” (John 10:11)

He is the good shepherd, we (his sheep) know him.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live.” (John 11:25)

He is the resurrection and the life, we believe in him.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6)

He is the way, the truth, and the life, we come to the Father through him.

“I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch of mine that bears no fruit, he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.” (John 15:1-2)

and:

“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.” (John 15:5)

He is the vine, the Father is the vinedresser, we are branches of that vine.

But notice that only the “bread” analogy came to physical sacramental fruition!

 

[Zundrah]

I think Pope John Paul II explained it best in Ecclesia de Eucharistia and here is the relevant part that you need to base your response upon. (Cont’d)

Sorry to quote such a big post!

I’m so sad though, that I couldn’t take the communion…(made me feel such an outcast)
How long will it be before I can do it?
The priest didn’t explain this to me. (what a meanie)! It was quite embarrassing in front of all those people!

 

[Zundrah]

:sad_yes:

Actually, you know, I think it is amazing that she is going with you! I know fundamentalist Baptists who wouldn’t go in a Catholic Church to escape a cattle stampede!! (Some of these people are my own relatives…)

My friend go nuts when I tell them that I went into a catholic church!

She said to me that I should stop going into catholic churches and talking to catholic people or I will end up joining a cult!!!

I think that Catholics and cults are two completely different things all together… (it was a Methodist church I went to). I’m ashamed to admit it.)

 

[Newbie2]

After you complete RCIA, usually at Easter Vigil, you will be in full communion with the RC church and can participate in all the sacraments. Some parishes offer an accelerated version of RCIA.

Not to excuse the priest, but they get busy and sometimes absentminded.

Talk about embarrasing, in olden days penance (after confession) was ***very ***public. Wearing sackcloth and ashes, etc., sometimes penance would last for days or weeks.

(Fortunately, we do not do that anymore )

Suggestion: offer up that experience to the Lord. He was embarassed and humiliated on the cross. Maybe this was a wee bit of a test to examine your resolve to convert to Catholocism.

 

[Church_Militant]

My friend go nuts when I tell them that I went into a catholic church!

Did you point out to them that no one had bitten you and that most everything they had told you about the Church had proved wrong so far?

She said to me that I should stop going into catholic churches and talking to catholic people or I will end up joining a cult!!!

I think that Catholics

and cults are two completely different things all together… (it was a Methodist church I went to). I’m ashamed to admit it.) You’re right of course.

You’ll likely hear more such stuff as time goes on and you’ll learn to respond with facts and scripture. God may have plans for you once you are home in the church.

 

[Zundrah]

After you complete RCIA, usually at Easter Vigil, you will be in full communion with the RC church and can participate in all the sacraments. Some parishes offer an accelerated version of RCIA.

Not to excuse the priest, but they get busy and sometimes absentminded.

Talk about embarrasing, in olden days penance (after confession) was ***very ***public. Wearing sackcloth and ashes, etc., sometimes penance would last for days or weeks.

(Fortunately, we do not do that anymore )

Suggestion: offer up that experience to the Lord. He was embarassed and humiliated on the cross. Maybe this was a wee bit of a test to examine your resolve to convert to Catholocism.

Maybe this was a wee bit of a test to examine your resolve to convert to Catholocism. - you know what? I think you are right! Maybe it was a test to see if I was truly actually ready to go through all of this. It is very difficult and I felt out of my depth, but thank the Lord that I have this site with all you guys to help me, with prayer and verbal support!
I will pull through and soon my profile wont say “Christian from Methodist church”. Rather it will say “Roman Catholic from the One True Church!”

 

[Zundrah]

Did you point out to them that no one had bitten you and that most everything they had told you about the Church had proved wrong so far? You’re right of course.

You’ll likely hear more such stuff as time goes on and you’ll learn to respond with facts and scripture. God may have plans for you once you are home in the church.

I know! How ridiculous of them to say such crazed:whacky: things!
Where does all this stuff come from!? Some people are so full of “old wives tales.”

I haven’t told my two ministers from my old Methodist church that I have joined a catholic church! They would probably linch me with a pitch fork! And perform all kinds of demon expelling prayer over me!

They are really obsessed with the need to tell people not to go to catholic churches. And they often use sexism as an excuse. They say that Catholics hate women!

 

[cazayoux]

My friend go nuts when I tell them that I went into a catholic church!

She said to me that I should stop going into catholic churches and talking to catholic people or I will end up joining a cult!!!

I think that Catholics and cults are two completely different things all together… (it was a Methodist church I went to). I’m ashamed to admit it.)

There is a big difference between a cult and the Catholic Church.
In a cult they don’t give you all of the information up front.
You are lured in … and once you are sufficiently invested, you learn a little more. Revealing a little at a time makes it more palatable. Things that would have freaked out an individual at the onset only sees it as a small step from where they are now. I think of the frog in the pot, with the water slowing warming to a boil. The frog doesn’t jump out to save it’s life, because it doesn’t notice a big change in temperature.

With the Catholic Church, you go through RCIA and learn everything that the church teaches … THEN you make a decision to join or not.

michel

 

[Church_Militant]

I know! How ridiculous of them to say such crazed:whacky: things!
Where does all this stuff come from!? Some people are so full of “old wives tales.”

I haven’t told my two ministers from my old Methodist church that I have joined a catholic church! They would probably linch me with a pitch fork! And perform all kinds of demon expelling prayer over me!

They are really obsessed with the need to tell people not to go to catholic churches. And they often use sexism as an excuse. They say that Catholics hate women!

I guess if they can’t find real arguments against the faith that they run with just anything that they can dream up.

Are you a woman BTW Zundrah? I had assumed you to be a man but names on here are pretty uninformatve of gender.

Yeah, we hate women so much that our Popes write encyclicals like this one
Mulieris*** Dignitatem***, “On the Dignity and Vocation of Women”

 

[Zundrah]

Did you point out to them that no one had bitten you and that most everything they had told you about the Church had proved wrong so far? You’re right of course.

You’ll likely hear more such stuff as time goes on and you’ll learn to respond with facts and scripture. God may have plans for you once you are home in the church.

**Church militant, **

I promise that when and if I ever tell my ministers that I am catholic now (which will be by email). I will paste their response here so you can see it with your own eyes. It will be both a laugh and a sad proof of the divisions of churches out there. :bible1:

Come to think of it, I told a friend by email yesterday and she hasn’t got back to me…

 

[cazayoux]

They say that Catholics hate women!

How is it we Catholics are accused of worshiping Mary AND being sexist?

Would these people call Jesus sexist since he only chose males as apostles? I doubt it.
Catholics LOVE and REVERE our women.
Our ladies are the glue!!!

michel

 

[cazayoux]

Are you a woman BTW Zundrah?

Zundrah = Jennifer