Being Present at Calvary VS. Receiving Holy Communion

[Eilish_Maura]

That’s axiomatic.

I figure if you were going to state what we are called to you should at least be accurate.

 

[Spiller]

I figure if you were going to state what we are called to you should at least be accurate.

I was accurate. We are REQUIRED to receive communion once a year. We can choose to receive more often, however.

 

[japhy]

All this trying to prove what is ‘primary’ and what is not is minimizing the Eucharist - and that is just wrong. The Eucharist IS the sacrifice of Calvary and receiving it as instructed by Jesus is NOT secondary. Even if someone cannot/should not receive there is Spiritual Communion but there is no “spiritual Mass” equivalent. We can receive the Eucharist outside of Mass but there is NO Mass without the Eucharist.

You’re combining/confusing the confection and offering of the Eucharist with the reception of Holy Communion. This is why terminology is important. The Eucharistic sacrifice and the reception of Holy Communion by the faithful are two distinct events (because the sacrifice is not complete until the priest has consumed it, not until we have consumed it). This is why “Eucharistic Minister”, referring to those who distribute Holy Communion, is a misnomer and one which confuses roles. The priest and bishop are the ONLY Eucharistic ministers in the Church; priests, bishops, deacons, and sometimes lay faithful are ministers of Holy Communion.

 

[japhy]

I figure if you were going to state what we are called to you should at least be accurate.

He was accurate, Eilish. “You are required to do X once” does not mean “You are required to do X once and only once”. He was not quoting can. 920 §1, he was summarizing.

But you make a valid point as well, since the law itself says: “Once admitted to the blessed Eucharist, each of the faithful is obliged to receive holy communion at least once semel saltem] a year.”

 

[EasterJoy]

It seems to me that it’s separating the inseparable when we say that the presence of the Mystery of Calvary and the reception of the body and blood of our Lord are separate things…much less that one, without the other, is spiritually comprehensible. The Mass is, as we all know, transcendant Sacrifice and the action of Jesus…so is His gift to us of that same body and blood which is sacrificed. Reception of that Sacred flesh and blood is UNION with Him (which is what we do - unite ourselves with Him - in His Holy Sacrifice. To RECEIVE our Lord’s body and blood is to intimately SHARE in His sacrifice and death as He intends us to share in it. The Sacrifice and the ‘receiving’ of Him are not two separate things, but part of one and the same Sacrifice. To separate them is an intellectual argument and difference and is, in my opinion, to miss the point and to significantly diminish our understanding of our presence at this Sacrifice and to also diminish our understanding of the benefit to be gained from
being part of this great Mystery of Calvary.

God love you and all forum members!

Our worship at Mass is not only the full Liturgy of the Eucharist, including the consecration, but the full Liturgy of the Word. These are to be taken as a single act of worship. So no, even though it is possible to receive the Eucharist in a Communion Service in which Mass is not said, the source and summit of Christian life is in the Eucharist: that is, the full Mass, in its entirety.

In other words: no eye-rolling “let’s get through the readings and homily and get on with the Mass” thinking, either!:twocents:

 

[bpbasilphx]

Whle the Western devotional emphasis has been the Crucifixion, in the Eastern, especially Byzantine view, the ENTIRE life of Christ is experienced in the Eucharistic Sacrifice.

And the whole point IS to receive communion. It’s not just “being at Calvary,” as glorious as that may be.

 

[Spiller]

Whle the Western devotional emphasis has been the Crucifixion, in the Eastern, especially Byzantine view, the ENTIRE life of Christ is experienced in the Eucharistic Sacrifice.

And the whole point IS to receive communion. It’s not just “being at Calvary,” as glorious as that may be.

No, I don’t buy that. The Mass is the re-presentation of the Paschal Mystery. Nothing is truncated.

I just don’t think that most Catholics really understand the Mass and are just looking for the “pay-off” in receiving Holy Communion.

 

[Spiller]

I think of all the adult first communion stories I have read over the years: “yada, yada, yada, RECEIVE COMMUNION, yada, yada”

I don’t think I have ever read one where the communicant focused on the entire Mass – particularly the sacrifice. Being present at the foot of Calvary is an AWESOME thing that seems to be lost on so many.

Much like those that cannot receive communion. Many stop coming to Mass altogether which is tragic.

 

[japhy]

No, I don’t buy that. The Mass is the re-presentation of the Paschal Mystery. Nothing is truncated.

I found the attack against the “paschal mystery” terminology adopted around the time of Vatican II to be without base, simply because the Mass contains the Súscipe, Sancta Trínitas (before the Canon) and the Unde et mémores (during the Canon) which make explicit references to the offering of the Most Holy Sacrifice of the altar in memory of the Passion, Death, Resurrection, and Ascension of Jesus Christ. Perhaps the phrase or term “Paschal Mystery” was not in use before Vatican II, but the alignment of the Mass to the whole of the paschal mystery (and not only the crucifixion) is evident (at least to me).

 

[CradleCath]

The ** primary** reason we attend Mass is to be present at Calvary where God the Son is offered to His Father for propitiation of out sins – past, present and future. The Miracle of Miracles.

It is not to receive Holy Communion as glorious as that in itself most certainly is.

So why do so many act like the Mass is some sort of bother that gets in the way of receiving Holy Communion? It’s almost as if they would prefer a drive-up…

I’m interested in the answers you receive because I have noticed the mind-set that you describe. In fact, I was once told by another Catholic, that should the choice be between the Mass & a Communion service, where the Eucharist, (preiviously consecrated by the Priest) is distributed by an EEM & no priest was present, she’d go to the Communion service. I don’t understand that.

 

[CradleCath]

The primary end of Mass is the glorification of God the Father by the offering of the perfect sacrifice of God the Son, not the reception of Holy Communion by the faithful. A priest can (and should) pray the Mass even if no one (apart from himself) is capable of receiving Holy Communion.

There are Catholics who don’t like to think of Mass as a Sacrifice.
There are Catholics who refuse to accept the fact that God **required **this perfect Sacrifice. They’d prefer to dwell on God’s mercy & forget about His justice.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

There are Catholics who don’t like to think of Mass as a Sacrifice.
There are Catholics who refuse to accept the fact that God **required **this perfect Sacrifice. They’d prefer to dwell on God’s mercy & forget about His justice.

Which did Jesus dwell on?

 

[japhy]

Which did Jesus dwell on?

Well, seeing as he was on the receiving end of God’s justice…

You should have just quoted Matthew 9:13/12:7 and Hosea 6:6 and then we could abolish this “the Mass is Sacrifice” notion once and for all!

 

[CradleCath]

Which did Jesus dwell on?

Jesus “dwelled on” neither, really…but upon the whole of both God & the human race. At first glance the Scripture tends to point mostly to God’s Wrath…“It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out, Woe to those who call good… evil & evil…good”.
And it’s good that Christ taught us about God’s wrath because it comes about** because **of God’'s goodness & holiness. He would not be God is he allowed His love & His goodness to be violated by the sinfulness of man & asked for no retribution, no reparation. Human beings who live their lives apart from God, may not realize it, but they have made a choice & have become…through that choice… antagonistic toward and hateful of His way. This holy and loving opposition to sinfulness in every form is called “God’s wrath".

Christ also shows us God’s mercy. To the thief, “Today you will be with Me in the Kingdom”. To the Father, “Father, forgive them…they know not what they do”. To us…the simplicity & love inherent in the greatest Commandment, “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind: and thy neighbour as thyself”.

Christ did not “dwell upon” either God’s Justice or Mercy, but gave us a complete picture of Him. The MASS does not dwell upon the Eucharist only…though that is a priceless gift. The Mass first & foremost is to give Glory to God. The Mass gives us the complete picture of the Catholic faith… The Mass is at the same time, both simple & complex. The Mass is the best teaching tool the Church has:

The Apostle’s Creed, believed to be composed on the day of Pentecost, by the apostles themselves…each of the 12 writing one of the 12 articles:

**I believe in God, the Father almighty,
**creator of heaven and earth.

**I believe in Jesus Christ, God’s only Son, our Lord,
**who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
**born of the Virgin Mary,
**suffered under Pontius Pilate,
**was crucified, died, and was buried;
**he descended into Hell.
**On the third day he rose again;
**he ascended into heaven,
**he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
**and he will come again to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. AMEN.

(Yes, I have used the Creed used by the Latin Church for centuries. The one currently used in the Novus Ordo has left out , thanks mostly to Karl Rahner “descended into Hell” or what we used to call the “harrowing of hell”… But, that isn’t the issue right now.)

Do you really believe, Eilish Maura, that the prayers at the foot of the Altar, the epistles, the gospel, the uniting of ourselves to the Communion of Saints, the Prayers beseeching Mary’s help, the Creed, the Gloria, etc…are ONLY things that lead up to the reception of the Eucharist. Do you believe that is their only/primary purpose???

[SIGN]C.S. Lewis: “God is the only comfort, He is also the supreme terror: the thing we most need and the thing we most want to hide from. He is our only possible ally, and we have made ourselves His enemies. Some people talk as if meeting the gaze of absolute goodness would be fun. They need to think again. They are still only playing with religion.” --Mere Christianity[/SIGN]

 

[Jean_Anthony]

This thread has gone off topic. Please take side issues to new or existing threads. Thank you all.