Being saved

[ziapueblo]

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Greetings all,
So I have been in a discussion for some time with an acquaintance on the topic of “being saved.” I offered Scriptural references (Acts 2:38; 1 Peter 3:18-22; etc.) that spoke of baptisms regenerating effect. I also gave him some of the writings of the early Church Fathers.

He replied with Scripture such as Romans 10:13, “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved,” and others similar to this (John 5:24-25; Romans 10:9-10; Acts 16:31; etc.). He and I can agree that Scripture does not contradict Scripture. So what is the Catholic response? Is it a both/and scenario? We must be both baptized and call on our Lords name?

It also seems to me that the root of our discussion has to do with OSAS, and that issue also has to be addressed.

Any advice would be welcomed!

God bless,
ZP

 

[jamil_joseph02]

It’s a “both” scenario. Jesus commanded Paul to be baptized-- this was after the Lord showed Himself to the apostle. By baptism we “clothe ourselves” with Christ.

As for the OSAS, ask “if you do not provide for your family their needs, are you saved?” If he answers

yes - he opposes 1 Tim 5:8

“Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”

no - then that means he acknowledges the possibility of changing from a state from being saved to being unsaved, thus refuting OSAS.

 

[vwtaylorii]

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Greetings all,
So I have been in a discussion for some time with an acquaintance on the topic of “being saved.” I offered Scriptural references (Acts 2:38; 1 Peter 3:18-22; etc.) that spoke of baptisms regenerating effect. I also gave him some of the writings of the early Church Fathers.

He replied with Scripture such as Romans 10:13, “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved,” and others similar to this (John 5:24-25; Romans 10:9-10; Acts 16:31; etc.). He and I can agree that Scripture does not contradict Scripture. So what is the Catholic response? Is it a both/and scenario? We must be both baptized and call on our Lords name?

It also seems to me that the root of our discussion has to do with OSAS, and that issue also has to be addressed.

Any advice would be welcomed!

God bless,
ZP

I would say to that person that we should look at Scripture as a whole. Rm 10: 13 does say He will save us when we call on His name, but it doesn’t say how He does that. Scripture clearly shows that God does it through baptism in Jn 3: 5, Mk 16: 16, 1 Pt 3: 21, and other verses as well. In fact, if you look at the whole Bible, God uses objects or people to save or heal others. In the Old Testament, God used water to save Noah and his family, Israelites from slavery, and healed Naaman from his leprasy (2 Kings 5: 10-14). In the NT, Jesus used dirt to cure a blind man, His clothing to heal a woman that touched Him, and His own body and blood to free us from sin. There is a lot more in Acts about how the apostles healed others and bringing people back from the dead. God could do that all with a blink of an eye, but He used people and other objects.

As far as calling on His name, that is what you suppose to do in baptism and all the other Sacraments. There are three elements that makes a valid Sacrament: object, word, and minister. You cannot baptize a person without calling upon God in the Trinitarian formula (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). Water doesn’t do anything. God is doing the saving by using water. Acts 22: 16 says that our sins are washed away in baptism by calling upon His name.

 

[Hiskid1973]

I had a powerful conversion experience 40 years ago…Somewhere a sinner touched by the working of the Holy Spirit and He responds by acknowledgment and repentance…Simply, I am a sinner, have mercy…Save me, then part of that process is the call to be water baptized… I was water baptised a year later after my conversion and a year later a Spirit baptism that literally set my faith on fire…My druggy coworker/buddy had the same experience soon after…Our co workers were shocked/suprised as we stated talking about Jesus…I think OSAS gets a bad wrap…Look at the parable of the sower…I dove into scripture and learned about my faith walk and how to walk in the Spirit and live a life pleasing to Christ , sharing my faith with those around me…Knowing He will complete the work He started working in me…I have a LOT of christian friends/acquaintances and none I know thinks they can sin/do what they want without consequences…

 

[david_friol_1]

Osas ?

 

[Hiskid1973]

Osas ?

Once you Saved your Always Saved…As opposed to walking with Christ and choosing to deny Him later on…Can’t say that I actually know someone who has done that…I have met
many who have backslid and had the Holy Spirit working and drawing/drew them back…
I am thankful to the Lord He will complete the work He started inme…

 

[catholic1seeks]

It is a “both/and” approach.

One thing that needs to be pointed out is that, historically, how to be “saved” was never reduced to a mere formula. It can be summarized, like “repend, believe, and be baptized,” but having a precise slogan like “faith alone” was never used simply because it wasn’t believed. The Protestant belief in imputed justification was (is) a very different understanding than Christianity had prior to the Reformation. The Church fathers describe salvation as a grace-filled relationship, a journey, which is consummated when one gets to Heaven. (Further proof of historical, infused justification is found in the fact that the E. Orthodox teach justification like this too). Justification is infused; our souls are actually changed, not just “covered up” dung, like Martin Luther described it. And so, because our souls are actually transformed, partaking in the “divine nature” as St. Peter puts it, we grow in our likeness to Christ. Salvation is not just a static condition, it’s a personal relationship. This needs to be understood first— we need to see how both sides describe justification.

I know this doesn’t directly respond to your Q, but it’s important stuff to have in mind.

As to the Bible itself, it describes salvation in its many aspects: the importance of faith, baptism, love, repentance, etc.

The actual process of justification (relationship between faith and baptism) as described by the Catholic Encyclopedia:

We now come to the different states in the process of justification. The Council of Trent assigns the first and most important place to faith, which is styled “the beginning, foundation and root of all justification” (Trent, l.c., cap.viii). Cardinal Pallavicini* (Hist. Conc. Trid., VIII, iv, 18) tells us that all the bishops present at the council fully realized how important it was to explain St. Paul’s saying that man is justified through faith. Comparing Bible and Tradition they could not experience any serious difficulty in showing that fiduciary faith was an absolutely new invention and that the faith of justification was identical with a firm belief in the truths and promises of Divine revelation (l. c.: “illumque [Deum] tanquam omnis justitiae fontem diligere incipiunt”). The next step is a genuine sorrow for all sin with the resolution to begin a new life by receiving holy baptism and by observing the commandments of God. The process of justification is then brought to a close by the baptism of water, inasmuch as by the grace of this sacrament the catechumen is freed from sin (original and personal) and its punishments, and is made a child of God. newadvent.org/cathen/08573a.htm

The article REGENERATION may also help:
newadvent.org/cathen/12714a.htm

Other good resources:

BORN AGAIN IN BAPTISM catholic.com/library/Born_Again_in_Baptism.asp

ARE CATHOLICS BORN AGAIN?catholic.com/library/Are_Catholics_Born_Again.asp

 

[Pax]

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Greetings all,
So I have been in a discussion for some time with an acquaintance on the topic of “being saved.” I offered Scriptural references (Acts 2:38; 1 Peter 3:18-22; etc.) that spoke of baptisms regenerating effect. I also gave him some of the writings of the early Church Fathers.

He replied with Scripture such as Romans 10:13, “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved,” and others similar to this (John 5:24-25; Romans 10:9-10; Acts 16:31; etc.). He and I can agree that Scripture does not contradict Scripture. So what is the Catholic response? Is it a both/and scenario? We must be both baptized and call on our Lords name?

It also seems to me that the root of our discussion has to do with OSAS, and that issue also has to be addressed.

Any advice would be welcomed!

God bless,
ZP

I have a lot of material that refutes OSAS. If you want it, just PM me and give me your email. I’ll send an email with all the files attached.

God bless.