Being Slain in the Spirit.

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My Dear Brothers,
I was recently wondering, what, if any biblical evidence is there of people being slain in the Spirit. For thos of you that have not been part of the Charismatic Renewal this is the phenomenon of being prayed and filled with the Holy Spirit to the point that one almost blacks out for a brief moment and falls backwards. This can also be followed by a feeling of immense peace and sometimes “tongues”
 
As a former Protestant Charismatic and Rhema Bible Training Center graduate ('82), I can remember that we used Revelation 1:17: “When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead.” I can’t remember the other verses or reasons but that was the main one.

David
 
David Brown:
As a former Protestant Charismatic and Rhema Bible Training Center graduate ('82), I can remember that we used Revelation 1:17: “When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead.” I can’t remember the other verses or reasons but that was the main one.

David
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I think it was John 18: 6:
5 They answered him, “Jesus the Nazorean.” He said to them, “I AM.” Judas his betrayer was also with them. 6 When he said to them, “I AM,” they turned away and fell to the ground.
 
David Brown:
As a former Protestant Charismatic and Rhema Bible Training Center graduate ('82), I can remember that we used Revelation 1:17: “When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead.” I can’t remember the other verses or reasons but that was the main one.

David
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Hi David,
I have a question about Rhema. I have a friend going there and i just wondered what type of school is it? What is it like? What do they teach? Do they teach anti-Catholic ideas? And finally, how did you become Catholic and leave the Charismatic Protestant Church you belonged to. I just pray about this frind that they do not end up going there because i thought they had some dangerous ideas/beliefs. What was your take on this school? Thank you very much!!!
 
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Joey1976:
Hi David,
I have a question about Rhema. I have a friend going there and i just wondered what type of school is it? What is it like? What do they teach? Do they teach anti-Catholic ideas? And finally, how did you become Catholic and leave the Charismatic Protestant Church you belonged to. I just pray about this frind that they do not end up going there because i thought they had some dangerous ideas/beliefs. What was your take on this school? Thank you very much!!!
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I graduated there in 1981 and 1982 when Kenneth Hagin was still alive (unlike many of his followers he had common sense). It is a Charismatic school, sometimes (and somewhat wrongly) described as a “health and wealth” or “prosperity” kind of belief. Most of the teachers were pastors or former pastors. We used Bible study books, largely from Harrison House and from Christ for the Nations. Sort of a regular non-accredited Bible school. The academic level was below college above chruch. They put out a lot of pastors, and you even find a TV guy or two who say they went there.

Baptism in the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues, healing, casting out demons, Bible quoting, believing God wants the best for you in this life. Probably the closest denomination to it would be the Assemblies of God (we used a couple of their books when I was there).

I haven’t checked on the school for many years and don’t know if there have been any major changes or not.

After graduating from Rhema I went to work in a church for about 3 years and grew disillusioned. I was also unhappy about the lack of intellect and the intellectual. I was impressed with Catholic ethics; natural law seemed right to me (did my undergraduate, graduate, and post-graduate work in philosophy). I found that the reasoning in ethics was the same in theology, etc. and was impressed. I gradually learned most of what I thought about Catholics was wrong and that truth seemed to be there. 12 or 13 years later and I came in in 2002 (I blame Mary, who took me up on a dare). Did I mention Chesterton and JP2?

David
 
David Brown:
I graduated there in 1981 and 1982 when Kenneth Hagin was still alive (unlike many of his followers he had common sense). It is a Charismatic school, sometimes (and somewhat wrongly) described as a “health and wealth” or “prosperity” kind of belief. Most of the teachers were pastors or former pastors. We used Bible study books, largely from Harrison House and from Christ for the Nations. Sort of a regular non-accredited Bible school. The academic level was below college above chruch. They put out a lot of pastors, and you even find a TV guy or two who say they went there.

Baptism in the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues, healing, casting out demons, Bible quoting, believing God wants the best for you in this life. Probably the closest denomination to it would be the Assemblies of God (we used a couple of their books when I was there).

I haven’t checked on the school for many years and don’t know if there have been any major changes or not.

After graduating from Rhema I went to work in a church for about 3 years and grew disillusioned. I was also unhappy about the lack of intellect and the intellectual. I was impressed with Catholic ethics; natural law seemed right to me (did my undergraduate, graduate, and post-graduate work in philosophy). I found that the reasoning in ethics was the same in theology, etc. and was impressed. I gradually learned most of what I thought about Catholics was wrong and that truth seemed to be there. 12 or 13 years later and I came in in 2002 (I blame Mary, who took me up on a dare). Did I mention Chesterton and JP2?

David
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What do you mean it is decribed as(and somewhat wrongly) a “health and wealth” or “prosperity type of belief”? Did it not teach the prosperity doctrine? What did you think of this doctrine? What did they teach of someone was not healed or someone was not rich? Why do you think this doctrine is taught in Charismatic Churches? Did you ever witness any healing or “failed” healings? Thanks a lot!
 
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Annunciata:
I think it was John 18: 6:
5 They answered him, “Jesus the Nazorean.” He said to them, “I AM.” Judas his betrayer was also with them. 6 When he said to them, “I AM,” they turned away and fell to the ground.
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Annunciata,

I had always associated John 18:6 with the guards being terrified of Jesus because He had said “I am,” which is God’s Name.

Possible better references for being “slain in the Spirit” are Numbers 11:25, I Samuel 10:10-11, and I Samuel 19:20-24.
  • Liberian
 
Being “slain in the spirit” is modernist, charismatic bunk. End of story.
 
Modernist Bunk! Gasp, how uncharitable! I feel there is something to it, however I do not know as I don’t see anything concrete in scripture or tradition. I’ve been slain a time or two…
 
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Joey1976:
What do you mean it is decribed as(and somewhat wrongly) a “health and wealth” or “prosperity type of belief”? Did it not teach the prosperity doctrine? What did you think of this doctrine? What did they teach of someone was not healed or someone was not rich? Why do you think this doctrine is taught in Charismatic Churches? Did you ever witness any healing or “failed” healings? Thanks a lot!
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Yes, it taught what is called the “prosperity doctrine,” but Hagin was much more reasonable than many others–and actually was more reasonable than his own writings (when we had classes with him he would often explain what he meant by his books). That God cares about you in this life, and that he wants to (and can) bless you and bless others through you, doesn’t seem too extreme to me. That you can have whatever you want and get rich by “naming it and claiming it” or like the Amway “fake it 'till you make it,” seems excessive. I think it appeals because it makes God and the Bible more relevant to this life, which is good, and because it appeals to our greed and desire to totally control our lives so we can live as we please, which is bad.

I have witnessed numerous healings and heard of many others from my friends. I have prayed for people who were healed. I have seen people not get healed. There was a tendency, that was strongly fought by most ministers, to blame the person or say they didn’t have enough faith to explain lack of healing or prosperity. If God wants you healed and prosperous, and you can have those promises by faith, then any problem has to come from your side (sin, lack of faith, etc.). One of the things they lacked was a theology of suffering (which I never knew anything about until I started looking at the Catholic Church).

David
 
David Brown:
Yes, it taught what is called the “prosperity doctrine,” but Hagin was much more reasonable than many others–and actually was more reasonable than his own writings (when we had classes with him he would often explain what he meant by his books). That God cares about you in this life, and that he wants to (and can) bless you and bless others through you, doesn’t seem too extreme to me. That you can have whatever you want and get rich by “naming it and claiming it” or like the Amway “fake it 'till you make it,” seems excessive. I think it appeals because it makes God and the Bible more relevant to this life, which is good, and because it appeals to our greed and desire to totally control our lives so we can live as we please, which is bad.

I have witnessed numerous healings and heard of many others from my friends. I have prayed for people who were healed. I have seen people not get healed. There was a tendency, that was strongly fought by most ministers, to blame the person or say they didn’t have enough faith to explain lack of healing or prosperity. If God wants you healed and prosperous, and you can have those promises by faith, then any problem has to come from your side (sin, lack of faith, etc.). One of the things they lacked was a theology of suffering (which I never knew anything about until I started looking at the Catholic Church).

David
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I have heard of a Pastor around my area who went to Rhema and he told people the same thing. I f you are not healed, it is because of your sin and also all sickness is becuase of your sins. The thing i don’t understand is, is that no one is without sin. Everyone is a sinner. Also, i don’t understand why they say that you have to claim your healings or whatever. What is the difference between me saying “Lord will you please heal my illness” and them saying “Lord heal my illness.” Why would my prayer be less effective just because i am asking for healing and their prayer more effective in telling the Lord to heal them. There is only a differnece in a few words from their prayer and mine. So why would mine be less effective. It just doesn’t make sense to me. Also, i don;t think it is right for a Pastor to tell me i am not healed or i am sick because of my sins. It is not their right to judge me or tell me i am sinful because i am sick, they don;t know everyone’s personal life and to judge people because they have an illness is wrong to me. So everytime i see someone in a wheelchair or something i must think “that is a sinful person”, come on, i’m not buying that. What do they feel about children who have Cancer or are in the hospital? They don’t have a chance to know right from wrong. So why are they sick? Thanks again. Joe
 
Joe,

Well they are sort of stuck in their theology (as I said before they have no theology of suffering):
  1. If God wishes you well (we often used verses like 3 John 2 “…I pray that all may go well with you and that you may be in health”) and made promises of health and wealth (Dueteronomy, Proverbs, etc.) and if God can make it happen, then the problem isn’t with God. The problem, we saw, was in getting “plugged in” to God’s power.
  2. We were taught that we could get the promises and blessings of God by faith (“Your faith has healed you” and so on throughout the ministry of Jesus) and that health is part of our salvation (the Greek word commonly used for “saved” is the same word for “healed”).
  3. Therefore, if we are sick or poor it can’t be God’s fault. He wants us well and he has the ability to make us well and he has promised to make us well. He’s ready. The only problem can therefore be with us.
This lead many to be critical of the sick or poor for lacking faith or living in sin. I have heard pastors say things like: “That young man didn’t have to die. If he only had the faith of a mustard seed he could have been well.” More sensible charismatics tried to account for illness and poverty without blame, which is hard given the kind of reasoning above. One way was to see the sick and poor without blaming them is to see them as spiritually immature–as not properly educated in “the Word,” etc. As a corollary, health and wealth were often signs of spirituality–we often had more people “testify” about their new car as about their conversion. And that is why you often see charismatic pastors (and especially their wives) wear expensive stuff (usually very tacky) and drive expensive cars.

David
 
Joe,

Just got off the phone with my mother. They were in Branson, MO for their wedding anniversary and went to a church pastored by a former long-time Rhema teacher. My mom said his wife talked for over 20 minutes about their new mansion in Oklahoma and how she got the bedroom furniture she always dreamed of, one of the most expensive in the world she said. And she went on and on about all that “God” had given them–that was their “sermon.”

My parents won’t be going back (they are Assemblies of God).

David

(Mod. Sorry it’s a bit off topic.)
 
Corpus Cristi:
Hey! I’m charismatic! :clapping: :crying: :bounce: :dancing: :whacky: :rotfl: :bigyikes:
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That’s hilarious!

As for the “slaying” phenomenon, it occurs among the devout and among the flimflam artists alike. That pretty well tells you that it is psychological rather than an act of God.

And I’ve never met anyone who had been slain that could show the slightest evidence that it made a hill of beans’ difference in his life.

I trained my first son to be a child healing-evangelist. When he was just a toddler I’d kneel in the floor and say “Heal me, Nate!” and he’d run over and hit my forehead and shout “Heal-uh!” and I’d fall backward.

I experienced every bit a much benefit as the folks I’ve observed for years in the healing lines.
 
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Kevan:
That’s hilarious!

As for the “slaying” phenomenon, it occurs among the devout and among the flimflam artists alike. That pretty well tells you that it is psychological rather than an act of God.

And I’ve never met anyone who had been slain that could show the slightest evidence that it made a hill of beans’ difference in his life.

I trained my first son to be a child healing-evangelist. When he was just a toddler I’d kneel in the floor and say “Heal me, Nate!” and he’d run over and hit my forehead and shout “Heal-uh!” and I’d fall backward.

I experienced every bit a much benefit as the folks I’ve observed for years in the healing lines.
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Well, falling in the spirit isn’t necessarily to show that someone is devout or not, or to bring about a “change” or “healing” in someone’s life. It’s simply being overtaken by the Spirit of God in a state of bliss and ecstacy, in which a lot of people fall!

I’ve also heard about people actually having visions of Jesus ministering to them while slain in the Spirit. A lot of times, it’s not psychological at all. Though some may fake it, it’s really surrendering to the Spirit, and that’s something you CAN’T fake.

God bless!
  • JMJ JHS
 
I have seen it done, but have never experienced it personally. The people I saw who were experiencing the phenomenon seemed to be in a highly emotional state and therefore presumably in a highly suggestible state.

After considerable (years) study, I am able to perform rapid hypnotic induction. And I know there is instant hypnotic induction. I can probably do that as well and have to be careful about waving my hands and arms around at and above people’s faces.

So my conclusion is that it is simply instant hypnotic induction performed by someone who may or may not be trained in hypnosis.

NOW… having written all that “stuff”, let me also say that one of my hypnosis teachers, a really super guy, who happens to be Jewish, was approached by some of his Catholic students (all of them in their 50’s and 60’s - not kids - ) and was invited to visit a local church where a famous Catholic priest would be conducting a healing service and where it was known that the “being slain in the spirit” falling backwards business would take place. Well, my friend was EXTREMELY sceptical to say the least. AND he has been teaching hypnosis for many decades (I recently attended his 70th birthday party)… but they dragged him and he said ok.

So, he said he was waiting and resistant. And the priest came down the line and people were falling like ten pins. And my friend was waiting and when the priest came to him, as with the others, THERE WAS NO ARM WAVING. The priest had his nose buried in a prayer book, and was apparently praying in Latin, never moved a finger. And the next instant, my friend was laying flat on his back on the floor. He never saw it coming. And has absolutely no explanation.

Go figure!!!
 
I recently became involved in the Charismatic movement.

BTW, I’m 31 and I hate being demonstrative in front of people.

I was “slain”, and I was fully conscious but unable to resist.

Recently I took part in teh seminar again and was a group leader. One of the people had come from a Pentecostal church and so has seen a lot, but she is somewhat shy and admitted she resisted completely. She fell, also.

I was also annointed again that night and I was “slain”. I sat up after a few moments, thinking I needed to be available to help with the rest, but I was not immediately needed so when I stood up I went and stood off to the side. I nearly fell over. I did not feel dizzy or anything…I just couldn’t seem to stay on my feet. I can’t explain this.

So I sat down and just prayed.

I have to say that since my first “Baptism in teh Spirit” I have gone to daily mass and I have become very contemplative…and
 
I just don’t get how a deficient religion (Anything other than Catholic), such as Pentecostal, can supposedly have so many people being slain in the spirit, while 99%+ orthodox and devout Catholics such as myself have never experienced it or known someone who has experienced it…and to be honest, I will take the silence and reverant atmosphere I find during the Mass I attend over guitars, people flopping around on the ground because they have been healed, slain, or whatever… and other innapropriate behavior that goes on.
 
I always thought Pentacost was a form of being slain in the Spirit. I don’t know if the Apostles had the physical experience of almost blacking out.

I experience the Holy Spirit this way a few years ago through a healing priest named Father Manny. He is a priest with the gift of healing and a more humble fellow you will not meet. He would ask you what needed healing, pray before the blessed sacrament, then he would make the sign of the cross on your forehead and breathe on you. I vaguely remember him touching my forehead and the next thing I knew I was flat on my back (I don’t remember falling down) with my eyes closed and I couldn’t move a muscle. Despite that I had such an incredible feeling of peace and love. I was cured of my disease. The doctor was dumbfounded.

While there a fair number of charlatans out there, I do believe in the possibility of it from my own lived experience. Father Manny asked for no money and lives a very simple and humble life.
 
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