Being strong is wrong?

[Lost_Wanderer]

Okay recently I’ve been debating on threads about Harry Potter (yes, some Catholics still insist on the fundamentalist position that it is demonic, unfortunately -_-;; ).

One issue a certain user brought up though is that Harry Potter should be condemned because it promotes the Gnostic pursuit of esoteric knowledge and power. He finds that Harry is no more right than Voldermort for the sheer reason that he trains himself and obtains power to overcome his enemy.

Honestly, this is just ridiculous. Martial arts flicks have this kind of theme all the time. Take Drunken Master. After getting his rear end handed to him by the main baddie, the protagonist decides to devote himself more to his training which in the end, causes him to be stronger and eventually become the victor in his rematch with the bad guy. Tell me is that Gnostic? Are the Chinese Gnostic?

What is it that some Catholics find so wrong about being strong? Boxers train themselves to beat their opponents. Are they Gnostic? Players of different ball sports (tennis, basketball, football, baseball) plan and prepare to beat the opposition. Are they Gnostic? Heck is the very notion of competition a brewing ground for this allegedly evil Gnostic idea?

This just doesn’t make sense.

P.S.

If this comes off as a rant, I apologize but I seriously find myself confused of how some people frown upon those who work hard to gain the strength needed to overcome their obstacles. It just feels like one step short of believing that you don’t need to work hard to solve your problems and you can treat God like a genie to deal with them for you.

 

[Reepicheep]

There’s nothing wrong with being strong.
There’s nothing wrong with working hard to become strong.
The important things are:

1. Don’t do evil things in hopes to become strong.
2. Don’t become obsessed with strength/power. There are other things you need to concern yourself with.
3. Don’t abuse the power once you have it.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

There’s nothing wrong with being strong.
There’s nothing wrong with working hard to become strong.
The important things are:

1. Don’t do evil things in hopes to become strong.
2. Don’t become obsessed with strength/power. There are other things you need to concern yourself with.
3. Don’t abuse the power once you have it.

Yeah that’s pretty much the Philosophy of Power isn’t it?
Be responsible. Don’t abuse it. Earn it fairly. Don’t let it get to your head.

Still, why do some people have problems with a story where the character wins after honorably training and harnessing the power needed to overcome his foe? :ehh:

 

[Karmartia]

If this comes off as a rant, I apologize but I seriously find myself confused of how some people frown upon those who work hard to gain the strength needed to overcome their obstacles. It just feels like one step short of believing that you don’t need to work hard to solve your problems and you can treat God like a genie to deal with them for you.

No rant, just common sense. Actually, being a Christian is hard work. God ain’t no genie. He’s not going to solve our problems for us, but He will give us support and encouragement and guidance, as any good parent would. “Our Father,…”

 

[Moscati]

One issue a certain user brought up though is that Harry Potter should be condemned because it promotes the Gnostic pursuit of esoteric knowledge and power. He finds that Harry is no more right than Voldermort for the sheer reason that he trains himself and obtains power to overcome his enemy.

Um . . . did they READ the book? The whole point of most of Harry Potter is that Harry DOESN’T obtain esoteric knowledge and power. The only way he survives his first encounter with Voldemort is through his mother’s love. The only way he is finally able to defeat Voldemort is by letting himself be killed, laying down his life for his friends. Esoteric power and knowledge are useless–love and self-sacrifice overcome evil with good.

I don’t watch martial arts flicks (except Kill Bill), so I can’t comment on the rest.

 

[rpp]

Um . . . did they READ the book? The whole point of most of Harry Potter is that Harry DOESN’T obtain esoteric knowledge and power. The only way he survives his first encounter with Voldemort is through his mother’s love. The only way he is finally able to defeat Voldemort is by letting himself be killed, laying down his life for his friends. Esoteric power and knowledge are useless–love and self-sacrifice overcome evil with good.

I don’t watch martial arts flicks (except Kill Bill), so I can’t comment on the rest.

Uhh… Not to be a spoiler here, but Harry Potter does not die in the last book. He made no such sacrifice. His primary motive was revenge. Revenge for the murder of his parent and revenge for the murder of Dumbledore.

Finally, Harry Potter did not try to obtain his “knowedge”: honestly or through hard work. He consistantly cheated, lied, broke rules, broke laws, all based on the concept of the “ends justify the means”.

Harry potter is as good of a role model as Hugh Hefner, Jessie James (circa 1867) or Barak Obama.

 

[vera_dicere]

Whether its Harry Potter, Resident Evil or Martial arts, I don’t see any of these thigns as “evil”, but they have the possibility of being evil, if you make said object an idol. So, you decide to read Harry Potter instead of going to Mass, or you decide to play Resident Evil instead of going to your mum’s birthday, or you decide to practice your karate instead of going to your job.

God has given us the gifts of creativity and curosity, however, there are certain thigns we are to avoid doing. If someone reads Harry Potter and decides being a witch is cool and then ventures into witch craft, then they have erred. All things must give glory to God.

Its all about moderation. If you like cake, that’s fantastic, just don’t sit down and eat 21 in one sitting.

 

[Ferds_Guiang]

I guess the promotion of belief in magic and sorcery is what the Church take issue with Harry Potter. But I do believe that being strong is never wrong. It is in fact the trait that we can all aspire to, especially if this strength is what will ward off every attack from our adversary. Let us strive to gain this strength if it will be for the welfare of our soul.

 

[Moscati]

Uhh… Not to be a spoiler here, but Harry Potter does not die in the last book. He made no such sacrifice. His primary motive was revenge. Revenge for the murder of his parent and revenge for the murder of Dumbledore.

Finally, Harry Potter did not try to obtain his “knowedge”: honestly or through hard work. He consistantly cheated, lied, broke rules, broke laws, all based on the concept of the “ends justify the means”.

Harry potter is as good of a role model as Hugh Hefner, Jessie James (circa 1867) or Barak Obama.

True, Harry doesn’t die, but he expected to, and willing went to make that sacrifice. Revenge for the murder of Dumbledore makes no sense, as Voldemort didn’t even kill him. Snape did, and, as Harry learns before he goes to Voldemort in the forest, Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him in order to save Lucius Malfoy, and preserve Snape’s position as a mole in Voldemort’s inner circle. (Okay, my nerdiness is showing. I’m done.)

It helps to read the book, like I said. You are certainly welcome to not read it, but it’s hard to make pronouncements about its characters’ motives if you’re unaware of the basic plot.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Yeah that’s pretty much the Philosophy of Power isn’t it?
Be responsible. Don’t abuse it. Earn it fairly. Don’t let it get to your head.

Good counsel.

Still, why do some people have problems with a story where the character wins after honorably training and harnessing the power needed to overcome his foe? :ehh:

The main problem I have with Harry Potter is simply that there are ignorant people who don’t know anything about the supernatural, and who read it and think, “That sounds fun. I wonder what the real thing is like.” Some people have gotten involved with witchcraft because of reading “Harry Potter” and not knowing enough about the dangers involved in actual magic.

But for most people the books are completely harmless, just one more fun read.

There isn’t anything wrong with seeking power if one is not prideful and uses it for good. Pride is a serious risk for people who seek power or fame, but it is not inevitable, and through God’s help its temptations can be resisted or overcome.

So I agree with you.

 

[m134e5]

Good counsel.

The main problem I have with Harry Potter is simply that there are ignorant people who don’t know anything about the supernatural, and who read it and think, “That sounds fun. I wonder what the real thing is like.” Some people have gotten involved with witchcraft because of reading “Harry Potter” and not knowing enough about the dangers involved in actual magic.

But for most people the books are completely harmless, just one more fun read.

There isn’t anything wrong with seeking power if one is not prideful and uses it for good. Pride is a serious risk for people who seek power or fame, but it is not inevitable, and through God’s help its temptations can be resisted or overcome.

So I agree with you.

I’m not sure I would avoid something just because some ignorant people are foolish with it. I read and loved all the Harry Potter books. I like the stories themselves, and I admire them for the works of literature that they are. I am grateful to the author who wrote them, because Generation Y isn’t exactly known for reading substantial things- they are known for video games, computer games, chatting online, and reality TV. The author of these books got many people in that generation to read. They aren’t trashy, unintelligently-written books. They have a good storyline and well-developed characters. That’s more than I can say about a lot of what’s written out there.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Good points, m134e5 . I don’t avoid the books either; I very much enjoy them. I don’t know how many people they have influenced to start using witchcraft, but I know that witches have said they couldn’t earlier appeal to the young, but since the Harry Potter books were released, the numbers of youth who come to them is swelling. So that does sound bad to me. I don’t know whether or not the books should have been written; I don’t know the scale of impetus this has given the witchcraft movements. So I don’t feel I’m in a position to evaluate that well, though what I’ve heard from witches is disturbing to me.

But I agree with you that the books have all the positive qualities you just listed. I very much enjoy them, personally, and J.K. Rowling’s skills with character development are greater than I’ve found with almost any author. I love her character development!

 

[Student09]

I don’t have a strong opinion on the Harry Potter books, but in regards to Lost Wanderer’s first post, it did occur to me that there is a vast difference between seeking excellence in a particular area while counting on one’s own ability to achieve it, and seeking excellence while looking to God and praying to Him for help. There is nothing wrong with seeking to excel in an art, a sport, etc, so long as we truly recognize that whatever good we achieve, we owe to God. Otherwise we will become prideful and misuse the gifts God has given us.

 

[rpp]

True, Harry doesn’t die, but he expected to, and willing went to make that sacrifice. Revenge for the murder of Dumbledore makes no sense, as Voldemort didn’t even kill him. Snape did, and, as Harry learns before he goes to Voldemort in the forest, Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him in order to save Lucius Malfoy, and preserve Snape’s position as a mole in Voldemort’s inner circle. (Okay, my nerdiness is showing. I’m done.)

It helps to read the book, like I said. You are certainly welcome to not read it, but it’s hard to make pronouncements about its characters’ motives if you’re unaware of the basic plot.

You made a series of assumptions about me in your post.

Your assumptions are as correct as it is to claim that Barak Obama is honest or that he loves America.

I have, in fact, read all seven of the Harry Potter books. I think it was cute that Ron married Hermione and Harry married Ginny and both couples, 19 years later. (Begins on page 753 of the Deathly Hallows.)

Never assume. You look foolish. Like right now, for instance.

Harry Potter, as I said is the worst type of role model. The ends do not justify the means. Yet that is Potter’s guiding attitude.

 

[Moscati]

You made a series of assumptions about me in your post.

Your assumptions are as correct as it is to claim that Barak Obama is honest or that he loves America.

I have, in fact, read all seven of the Harry Potter books. I think it was cute that Ron married Hermione and Harry married Ginny and both couples, 19 years later. (Begins on page 753 of the Deathly Hallows.)

Never assume. You look foolish. Like right now, for instance.

Harry Potter, as I said is the worst type of role model. The ends do not justify the means. Yet that is Potter’s guiding attitude.

And both couples what 19 years later? I think you forgot to finish your sentence.

Assumptions about you? No. I don’t know you at all. About whether you’ve read the books, yes. My apologies. If you have read the books, then I guess we’ll just have to settle for a difference of literary interpretation. A vast difference. I’ll take a conflicted adolescent usually trying to do the right thing over a morally depraved pornographer any day.

 

[Monica4316]

Um . . . did they READ the book? The whole point of most of Harry Potter is that Harry DOESN’T obtain esoteric knowledge and power. The only way he survives his first encounter with Voldemort is through his mother’s love. The only way he is finally able to defeat Voldemort is by letting himself be killed, laying down his life for his friends. Esoteric power and knowledge are useless–love and self-sacrifice overcome evil with good.

I don’t watch martial arts flicks (except Kill Bill), so I can’t comment on the rest.

true about the plot… that’s what happened