Being sued by our Catholic School

[jrabs]

Catholic elementary schools in general will not deny a child due to reasons of finance. Talk with your pastor.

I understand. That’s not the point. The point is to take responsibility for your family and your monetary stability. I do not think it is the job of the “village” or in this case the church, to take care of my children.

Buffalo, please show me where Catholic families are entitled to a Catholic education subsidized entirely by the church? There are options available for education, though if you want a private education, then you pay the price for one.

You are presuming much. You are presuming that a parent has asked the pastor for financial assistance before they are enrolled.

I don’t see that as the problem. What the majority of this thread has been focused on is after the fact. After enrollment. Families who have enrolled with the promise to pay, then whoops!

It would be highly irresponsible for me to send my children to school and then claim financial hardships. But you are correct - those hardships can also be the result of misplaced desires of the family other than paying tuition.

 

[Catholic90]

I don’t buy it. Plate collections are down due to choices.

**Why Catholics Don’t Give And What Can Be Done About It (Hardcover) **

In this book is an interesting phnonema. The more a Catholic makes the less as a percentage of income they give. It’s a shame. The highest givers make less than 25,000 per year.

It seems Catholics as well as others make daily choices that favor materialism and not the Church.

Well, you don’t have to buy it! But I, as an employee of a Catholic school, do!!

We see the financials. We know what is being given, what the bills are, what the budget is! We know what is coming in on a weekly basis, and what is going out for salaries, bills, etc.

Without tuition, teachers would not get paid. Nice morale that would make!

Our elementary tuition is $3200. If someone can’t pay it, they can speak with the priest to make arrangements. But if someone just decides not to pay without speaking to anyone, you can bet they will get sued for unpaid tuition! They also will not be allowed to re-enroll until they are paid up or until arrangements have been made.

 

[jrabs]

I don’t buy it. Plate collections are down due to choices.

**Why Catholics Don’t Give And What Can Be Done About It (Hardcover) **

In this book is an interesting phnonema. The more a Catholic makes the less as a percentage of income they give. It’s a shame. The highest givers make less than 25,000 per year.

It seems Catholics as well as others make daily choices that favor materialism and not the Church.

You are exactly spot on. That is the problem. There is money in the church though few are coughing up. But this problem also applies to other aspects in lives too - as well as paying for Catholic tuition. It is not a separate issue.

 

[jrabs]

But if someone just decides not to pay without speaking to anyone, you can bet they will get sued for unpaid tuition! They also will not be allowed to re-enroll until they are paid up or until arrangements have been made.

I agree. As it should be. It’s a bill like any other they have to pay. A choice they made, like selecting a certain vehicle. You must pay for your options in life.

 

[buffalo]

I understand. That’s not the point. The point is to take responsibility for your family and your monetary stability. I do not think it is the job of the “village” or in this case the church, to take care of my children.

Buffalo, please show me where Catholic families are entitled to a Catholic education subsidized entirely by the church? There are options available for education, though if you want a private education, then you pay the price for one.

Sure it is. It is a duty of all the Catholic faithful. Jesus’ first commission was “Go and teach all nations”. The parents are the first teachers, but Catholic school is a close second.

IF anyone has any doubts as to whether this again can happen, look here:

The Catholic Schools in the Diocese of Wichita is the second largest school system in Sedgwick County and the ninth largest in the state. There are 24 pre-schools, 34 elementary schools, 23 middle schools, and four high schools serving 10,553 students.
The Catholic school system in the Diocese of Wichita is unique, we are the only school system in the United States in which parishes offer to the children of active Catholic parishioners a tuition-free grade school and high school education. All Catholic schools in the diocese are accredited. In addition:

• Every teacher is certified by the State of Kansas
• 90% of high school seniors enroll in college
• Catholic schools enroll more than 1,800 minority students
• Catholic schools enroll more than 2,500 students from low income families
• The Catholic schools in the diocese of Wichita are recognized as a leader in high standards, innovation, ongoing staff development, and especially for the stewardship way of life.

 

[jrabs]

The Catholic Schools in the Diocese of Wichita is the second largest school system in Sedgwick County and the ninth largest in the state. There are 24 pre-schools, 34 elementary schools, 23 middle schools, and four high schools serving 10,553 students.

That’s not what I asked you. I know it can happen as in the case above which some parishes around here have studied in hopes of emmulating.

What I asked was show me where Catholic families are entitled to a Catholic education subsidized entirely by the church? There are options available for education, though if you want a private education, then you pay the price for one.

 

[buffalo]

That’s not what I asked you. I know it can happen as in the case above which some parishes around here have studied in hopes of emmulating.

What I asked was show me where Catholic families are entitled to a Catholic education subsidized entirely by the church? There are options available for education, though if you want a private education, then you pay the price for one.

I don’t think I will find a document of entitlement. However, here is a good shot at promoting it:

THE CATHOLIC SCHOOL
ON THE THRESHOLD
OF THE THIRD MILLENNIUM

1. The Holy Father has pointed out in a meaningful expression how “man is the primary and fundamental way for the Church, the way traced out by Christ himself”.(27) This way cannot, then, be foreign to those who evangelize. Travelling along it, they will experience the challenge of education in all its urgency. Thus it follows that the work of the school is irreplaceable and the investment of human and material resources in the school becomes a prophetic choice. On the threshold of the third millennium we perceive the full strength of the mandate which the Church handed down to the Catholic school in that “Pentecost” which was the Second Vatican Council: “Since the Catholic school can be of such service in developing the mission of the
   People of God and in promoting dialogue between the Church and the community at large to the advantage of both, it is still of vital importance even in our times”.(28)

 

[buffalo]

That’s not what I asked you. I know it can happen as in the case above which some parishes around here have studied in hopes of emmulating.

What I asked was show me where Catholic families are entitled to a Catholic education subsidized entirely by the church? There are options available for education, though if you want a private education, then you pay the price for one.

and by the way I do agree Catholics should pay their bills. Catholics suuing other Catholics not a good idea. In fact we Catholics are supposed to settle together without the need for the courts.

 

[jrabs]

I don’t think I will find a document of entitlement. However, here is a good shot at promoting it:

THE CATHOLIC SCHOOL
ON THE THRESHOLD
OF THE THIRD MILLENNIUM

I will agree that it is a good vision - and that folks are not coughing up enough $ these days because they are funding other personal objectives ( SUVs, vacations, sports, etc.), not Godly objectives.

And because that is currently the case in most parishes, I still have to side with the school admin.

One cannot, in good conscience, enroll in a private Catholic school (by doing such assuring the school administration that they have the financial where-with-all to pay tuition) , then expect the parish to pay when they default on their obligations.

Does one also pay the car loan late? Nope - it gets repo’ed.
Your electricity gets turned off, etc.

 

[jrabs]

and by the way I do agree Catholics should pay their bills. Catholics suing other Catholics not a good idea. In fact we Catholics are supposed to settle together without the need for the courts.

Never is a great idea - but that is often the only way to get people to pay their debts. Sad but very true.
When it comes to money, some can easily shrug aside their Catholic ways and become very temporal.

It’s human nature we are suing.

 

[buffalo]

Never is a great idea - but that is often the only way to get people to pay their debts. Sad but very true.
When it comes to money, some can easily shrug aside their Catholic ways and become very temporal.

It’s human nature we are suing.

I know. This runs very deep.

What happens it is puts up a wall that has a detrimental effect on enrollment. This causes a downward spiral. I believe we must handle these situations with care, not the business solution.

 

[jrabs]

I know. This runs very deep.

What happens it is puts up a wall that has a detrimental effect on enrollment. This causes a downward spiral. I believe we must handle these situations with care, not the business solution.

Thank you for discussion today.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

In an ideal world, ability to pay is never a deciding factor in the continued enrollment of a child in a Catholic school. Many Catholic schools strive to order their finances so as to make that ideal possible. Obviously, this would even apply when “ability to pay” changes between September and December.

Having said that, I’m a little bothered by the sense of entitlement showing up in this thread. At some schools, money is tight and not getting promised tuition payments on time could lead to the school being the one sued for failure to pay *their *debts, which in turn could negatively impact their credit rating and ability to finance the school.

I have no way of knowing it that is even close to applying in this situation, but do want to remind people that Catholic schools are very often not bottomless pits of cash flow, even in wealthy neighborhoods.

 

[Shae]

I’ve only read the first post in this thread. Anyway I went to a girls catholic college as a young girl.
My mother sat in on a mothers club, as they called it back then and she heard this in the meeting.

"Lets lay it down, now on the table that this college is first a successful business, and a school second. My mother could not pick her mouth up off the floor quick enough to flee from there.
Sounds like this may be the case for your
child’s school.

My two sons attend St Patricks college and I always hear this statement. No child will be denied and education based on his
parent’s inability to meet the financial costs.

I will say that a catholic education does come at a high price and it should be affordable to all who want that education.

shae

 

[buffalo]

“It is the responsibility of the entire Catholic community-bishops, priests, deacons, religious and laity-to continue to strive towards the goal of making our Catholic elementary and secondary schools available, accessible, and affordable to all Catholic parents and their children, including those who are poor and middle class.” * * United States Conference of Catholic Bishops

 

[BLB_Oregon]

“It is the responsibility of the entire Catholic community-bishops, priests, deacons, religious and laity-to continue to strive towards the goal of making our Catholic elementary and secondary schools available, accessible, and affordable to all Catholic parents and their children, including those who are poor and middle class.” United States Conference of Catholic Bishops

But if the entire Catholic community fails in their responsibility, should the school go under rather than to legally seek the contracted amount from people who agreed to pay the tuition? Is tuition a good-faith offering, a debt incurred in good faith, or simply a debt legally incurred, like any other legal debt?

Me, I think that a school might rightly expel those families who refuse to pay out of bad faith, but I would not involve the courts. It is better to fail with your principles than to succeed by abandoning them.

Nevetheless, we do not know the whole story when it comes to these matters, and in particular do not know what happened in this specific case, even if the OP is posting all the facts within her knowledge with all diligence and honesty. There is always more than any one side knows.

 

[CatholicChick]

Has anyone here ever been sued by the catholic school they send their children to?

It is over the tuition, and though we explained to the business manager of the school that we would pay in full as soon as our IRS refund arrives(any day now), he still filed a lawsuit. Now we will be obliged to pay court fees as well. We had made a repeated verbal promise to pay via our refund in December and on 2/6/07. The business manager “doesn’t recall”.

I spoke with the principal, and had no satisfaction. I left a message for the parish priest - who then had the same business manager call me. The priest has not returned my call. Nothing has been resolved.

Is it just me or does this whole thing seem ridiculous?

Your verbal promise should have been enough and the fact that the priest did not call is just as upsetting. It is not Christian for one Catholic to sue another so quickly over such a matter. I must say as a new Catholic this story upsets me. God Bless and I hope everything works out for you!

 

[Beno]

Having been a member of a parish staff, I can see and understand the difficulties from both sides. But it still bothers me to see that some churches feel the need to resort to lawsuits to settle financial difficulties. This can’t be beneficial to the spiritual life of families struggling with payments.

Here in Wichita Kansas, tuition for Catholic education is handled a bit differently. A stewardship model of “time, talent, and treasure” is used. I believe it works like this: each individual parish pays the tuition costs in full for all of its students attending elementary, middle, and high schools; in return, the parents of school children agree to tithe 8% of their income, they must be active contributors and participants in the life of the school and church, and the families must be faithful practicing Catholics as is expected of all Catholics. I believe this is working quite successfully and is being looked at as a model for other Dioceses struggling with the high costs of education and inadequate tuition payments.

 

[Katie1723]

… Is tuition a good-faith offering, a debt incurred in good faith, or simply a debt legally incurred, like any other legal debt?..

IMO, a legal debt like any other. If you bought a car and didn’t make payments, would you be expected to be allowed to keep it, or be made to give it back?
Sending your child to Catholic school is a choice as well as an expense. But being Catholic doesn’t entitle anyone to “freebies” or “breaks” simply because of their faith.
It truly is a shame that tuition is so expensive, but a debt is a debt and payment is necessary.

Kathy

 

[mikew262]

Assuming everything was done in good faith I believe Catholic schools should not resort to such heavy handed tactics. They are an obstacle to enrollment.

Agreed.