Being with free will cannot be created in causal way

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bahman
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
inocente said:
Sorry, you lost me - what puzzle?
Click to expand...
This is the puzzle. He defines the terms, he gives the choices. You can’t win.

Bahman says in O.P.
To me creation of anything (without free will) from nothing is less mysterious than existence of a being with free will.
  1. Causality is the relation between an event (the cause) and a second event (the effect), where the second event is understood as a consequence of the first.
  2. Free will is the ability to choose between minimum two options and breaks the chain of causality otherwise the ability is not free will hence a delusion.
  3. This means that free will is an anomaly in casual universe since it breaks the chain of causality and it can not come to existence nor be created in causal way since causality cannot lead to something non-causal.
  4. This means that creation of free will is not possible in causal way.
End.

Linus2nd
 
Linusthe2nd said:
This is the puzzle. He defines the terms, he gives the choices. You can’t win.

Bahman says in O.P.
To me creation of anything (without free will) from nothing is less mysterious than existence of a being with free will.
  1. Causality is the relation between an event (the cause) and a second event (the effect), where the second event is understood as a consequence of the first.
  2. Free will is the ability to choose between minimum two options and breaks the chain of causality otherwise the ability is not free will hence a delusion.
  3. This means that free will is an anomaly in casual universe since it breaks the chain of causality and it can not come to existence nor be created in causal way since causality cannot lead to something non-causal.
  4. This means that creation of free will is not possible in causal way.
End.
Click to expand...
Oh right, got you. Sorry, didn’t expect we’d ever be agreed on anything. 😃
 
Linusthe2nd said:
?? I meant - these puzzles are designed so the vendor wins, there is always a " catch 22. " If you agree to participate, you loose. Its a designed outcome. That is why I never engage.

Linus2nd
Click to expand...
You ruined my little puzzle :D. By the way, what is wrong with it? 😦
 
I may have missed something, but I read the OP to say, in a nutshell: If you insist on a causal (materialist) universe, you can’t have free will.

And I think that’s probably exactly right. Free will is a convenient illusion. What’s the problem?
 
You are compelled to believe that free will is a convenient illusion regardless of any evidence to the contrary. In other words you are an impotent puppet manipulated by physical events incapable of making up your mind and reaching a rational conclusion.
 
tonyrey said:
You are compelled to believe that free will is a convenient illusion regardless of any evidence to the contrary. In other words you are an impotent puppet manipulated by physical events incapable of making up your mind and reaching a rational conclusion.
Click to expand...
And what is wrong with the argument? I also dislike to be a puppet manipulated with physical laws but like or dislike doesn’t grant anything against an argument.
 
wanstronian said:
I may have missed something, but I read the OP to say, in a nutshell: If you insist on a causal (materialist) universe, you can’t have free will.

And I think that’s probably exactly right. Free will is a convenient illusion. What’s the problem?
Click to expand...
Theologian: “Just thought of a great argument for what I’ll name the First Cause. It’s an ace argument. It’s based on determinism being true, so it’s rock solid stuff.”

Ordinary guy: “But wouldn’t that mean we can’t freely choose our beliefs?”

Theologian: “Rats, hadn’t thought of that. OK, how about if humans, alone in the entire universe, have a get-out-of-jail-free card? It will make us feel special. Let’s call it free will.”

Ordinary guy: “And you get paid for this?”
 
inocente said:
Oh right, got you. Sorry, didn’t expect we’d ever be agreed on anything. 😃
Click to expand...
You have been unobservant. Actually, I have agreed with you on at least four occassions, even to the point of admitting I was in error on a couple of points. See, I’m a genuine Thomist :D.

Linus2nd
 
Linusthe2nd said:
You have been unobservant. Actually, I have agreed with you on at least four occassions, even to the point of admitting I was in error on a couple of points. See, I’m a genuine Thomist :D.
Click to expand...
Can I get a Genuine Thomist™ magic 8-ball then? 😃
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top