Beleifs that define a christian

  • Thread starter Thread starter fbl9
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
why do you ignore what is explictely stated by Christ himself, as what is essential?
Again, many here are mixing up membership in a denomination with membership in Christ’s family. Christ certainly didn’t spout creeds.

For added clarification, loving God with all your heart and soul includes reading scripture and obedience. Obedience for a Catholic is different than for a Baptist.
Rolltide said:
So… belief in Christ’s divinity, his death, his resurrection, and its implication for our salvation play no role in being a Christian? The Biblical passage you cited is indeed important, but it only references behavior on Earth. Without the death and resurrection of Jesus, the point is moot, since we would not be able to achieve salvation anyway.
Click to expand...
 
I think the creeds and councils of the church have to be included in defining Christian. 9http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_seven_Ecumenical_Councils) these were written by the early church and defined most of orthodox Christian thought today. I think that’s fairly minimal, and most protestants would fall along those lines. I do think sacrementalism is important – Jesus talks about the sacrements – but I do think you can be a Christian without them.
 
septimine said:
I think the creeds and councils of the church have to be included in defining Christian. 9http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_seven_Ecumenical_Councils) these were written by the early church and defined most of orthodox Christian thought today. I think that’s fairly minimal, and most protestants would fall along those lines. I do think sacrementalism is important – Jesus talks about the sacrements – but I do think you can be a Christian without them.
Click to expand...
But the Council’s you mentioned also talk of the necessity of the sacraments. 😉
 
tarboy said:
why do you ignore what is explictely stated by Christ himself, as what is essential?
Again, many here are mixing up membership in a denomination with membership in Christ’s family. Christ certainly didn’t spout creeds.

For added clarification, loving God with all your heart and soul includes reading scripture and obedience. Obedience for a Catholic is different than for a Baptist.
Click to expand...
Yes, but if you do not believe that Christ sacrificed himself to save us, then what’s the point? Is our relationship with the afterlife the same as the Jews? Further, by that definition, you could make a really strong argument that Muslims are Christians, since they recognize that Issa (Jesus) is a great prophet, and they recognize his commands to love God and help each other. You are mixing up how a Christian is supposed to act with the actual definition of a Christian.
 
I feel you are twisting some things out of speck. Isn’t the question, “what is a Christian” and not “Who gets into heaven”

- Christians love Christ as God with all their heart and soul, so that clearly excludes both Jews and Muslims from being labeled Christian.
  • However, doesn’t the Church agree Jews and Muslims can be in heaven if they love their imperfect understanding of God completely?
So tweaking my earlier response to be clearer in defining a Christian
  • They (Christains) love Christ as God with all their heart and soul
  • They (Christains) love their neighbor as themself
Rolltide said:
Yes, but if you do not believe that Christ sacrificed himself to save us, then what’s the point? Is our relationship with the afterlife the same as the Jews? Further, by that definition, you could make a really strong argument that Muslims are Christians, since they recognize that Issa (Jesus) is a great prophet, and they recognize his commands to love God and help each other. You are mixing up how a Christian is supposed to act with the actual definition of a Christian.
Click to expand...
 
tarboy said:
I feel you are twisting some things out of speck. Isn’t the question, “what is a Christian” and not “Who gets into heaven”

- Christians love Christ as God with all their heart and soul, so that clearly excludes both Jews and Muslims from being labeled Christian.
  • However, doesn’t the Church agree Jews and Muslims can be in heaven if they love their imperfect understanding of God completely?
So tweaking my earlier response to be clearer in defining a Christian
  • They (Christains) love Christ as God with all their heart and soul
  • They (Christains) love their neighbor as themself
Click to expand...
So belief in the Holy Spirit, the sacrifice on the cross of Christ, the Resurrection, and life after death are not necessary (or are optional) for Christians? We have apparently established Jesus as God and man, which was one of the four points listed by the original poster.
 
tarboy said:
I feel you are twisting some things out of speck. Isn’t the question, “what is a Christian” and not “Who gets into heaven”

- Christians love Christ as God with all their heart and soul, so that clearly excludes both Jews and Muslims from being labeled Christian.
  • However, doesn’t the Church agree Jews and Muslims can be in heaven if they love their imperfect understanding of God completely?
So tweaking my earlier response to be clearer in defining a Christian
  • They (Christains) love Christ as God with all their heart and soul
  • They (Christains) love their neighbor as themself
Click to expand...
Tarboy the question is Beleifs that define a christian. Not actions

Why love God?
 
No, they are not essential according to Christ himself.

But if you think it through, anyone who loves God (Christ) with their whole heart is going to be an avid reader of scripture, they will pray and be guided by the Holy Spirit. I expect they will also believe in the Resurrection but that is secondary.
Rolltide said:
So belief in the Holy Spirit, the sacrifice on the cross of Christ, the Resurrection, and life after death are not necessary (or are optional) for Christians? We have apparently established Jesus as God and man, which was one of the four points listed by the original poster.
Click to expand...
 
tarboy said:
No, they are not essential according to Christ himself.

But if you think it through, anyone who loves God (Christ) with their whole heart is going to be an avid reader of scripture, they will pray and be guided by the Holy Spirit. I expect they will also believe in the Resurrection but that is secondary.
Click to expand...
Is not the Holy Spirit an essential belief then, if one expects to be guided by it?

Does your definition also preclude the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who believe that Jesus is NOT God, but rather the Archangel Michael?
 
fbl9 said:
Tarboy the question is Beleifs that define a christian. Not actions

Why love God?
Click to expand...
Now you are sounding Calvanistic, claiming it’s all about belief and not action

Seriously though, you raise a good point
How can one exclude a person who loves christ and their fellow man with all their heart? I can’t
How can one include a person who professes specific beliefs but does not act?
 
tarboy said:
- Christians love Christ as God with all their heart and soul, so that clearly excludes both Jews and Muslims from being labeled Christian.
Click to expand...
Christians love Christ as one person of the triune God, so that would also exclude Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, and some Pentecostals.
 
Publisher said:
Without the actions…beliefs are of little value.🤷
Click to expand...
Well nobody is questioning that. Still, the question remains, what fundamental beliefs MUST a Christian hold in order to distinguish him from a good person of a different religion? What is the ultimate purpose of following Christ and helping others? Just because God demands it? To gain eternal life? Because there will be a final judgment of good and evil?
 
Rolltide said:
Well nobody is questioning that. Still, the question remains, what fundamental beliefs MUST a Christian hold in order to distinguish him from a good person of a different religion? **What is the ultimate purpose of following Christ and helping others?/**QUOTE]

To make know the Presence of God in this world…to share in His Incarnation.

I don’t know that there are ANY beleifs one needs to embrace to enter into union with Him other than “repent”…“change the direction we are going” and begin to live as He makes His will known…beliefs will come as our faith is formed through our experiences…I don’t know of ANY doctrine one must believe to be accepted and forgiven by God…other than we need Him and seek after Him…He comes to us…He receives us…without the belief in required doctrine and dogma…God loves us even in our ignorance.

If you’re asking what are the beliefs needed to be a member of the religion called Christianity…each individual group will have a different set of required beliefs to be called “Christian” by them…God isn’t too concerned with the labels we pin on ourselves…or others…at least in my limited understanding.
Click to expand...
 
Stephen168 said:
Christians love Christ as one person of the triune God, so that would also exclude Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, and some Pentecostals.
Click to expand...
When one starts to use belief in creeds, I think you defining what it means to be catholic rather than christian.

For me, I see being catholic as more restrictive than being christian.
Maybe others here see them as the same.
 
Well, we can look at the Nicene Creed I suppose to see if any of it is necessary.

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty
maker of heaven and earth
of all things visible and invisible

So, we’ve determined that the purpose of Christianity is to make known the presence of God in this world, so there’s no problem with the first line. Regardless of whether or not one believes in creeds, I think pretty much everyone can affirm at least that much, Now, are the next two lines necessary, since they establish what kind of a god God is? In other words, he’s not some demi-god or limited in scope and power, like Neptune, controlling only the seas. Is it necessary to believe this to establish from where his power comes from and why we must follow Him? Does it fundamentally matter that God is different from the concept of other gods?
 
tarboy said:
When one starts to use belief in creeds, I think you defining what it means to be catholic rather than christian.

For me, I see being catholic as more restrictive than being christian.
Maybe others here see them as the same.
Click to expand...
Believing in the trinity is not unique to Catholicism, it is the foundational belief of Christianity. It is who our God is.
 
I think that there are a couple of issues here about belief and Christianity that might be muddying the waters. First we have a propositional belief about God and that is stated in the Creed in term of what/who God is, even the Devil has a propositional belief about God. The second aspect is a belief in God and that is stated in the Creed too, that it is our surrender to God and the trust that we put in him.
Is a Christian the one that simply sticks with the propositional belief, the one that acknowledges God, or the one that also trusts in God? I would say that propositional belief is not sufficient to define a Christian.
Can we trust in God and be Christians even if we do not also have the correct propositional belief? My answer is no because we are worshiping a God that is not the true God and thus we become idolaters.
This is why I think that the Credo is necessary and sufficient to define a Christian. The Greatest Commandment is necessary but not sufficient to define a Christian, unless you to start to attach a lot of implied propositions when adopt the word 'God" that is used into it. The greatest commandment is not known only in Christianity and it really sprouts out of natural law. The big difference that comes out in Christianity is that we also have to love our enemy and not only our neighbor.
I think that the Greatest Commandment has more to do with the economy of salvation than with the definition of being a Christian.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top