Belief in God

[Singularity]

From Vatican I:
Pius IX:

If anyone says that the one, true God, our creator and lord, cannot be known with certainty from the things that have been made, by the natural light of human reason: let him be anathema.

Pius IX:

If anyone says that divine revelation cannot be made credible by external signs, and that therefore men and women ought to be moved to faith only by each one’s internal experience or private inspiration: let him be anathema.

With these statements in mind, I have two questions:

1.) What human reason allows us to believe in God, or know God, with certainty? Please be specific. (Arguments such as Paley’s Watch wouldn’t work because it is just an argument and doesn’t show God with certainty.)

2.) If God can be made known with certainty through reason, why do so many people claim they do not know God?

 

[Church_Militant]

With these statements in mind, I have two questions:

1.) What human reason allows us to believe in God, or know God, with certainty? Please be specific. (Arguments such as Paley’s Watch wouldn’t work because it is just an argument and doesn’t show God with certainty.)

Romans 1:20 Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse;

2.) If God can be made known with certainty through reason, why do so many people claim they do not know God?

Sin, self will, and deception.

Read the context of Romans 1:16-2:16

 

[cranster]

I read paley’s watch and some arguments that followed talking about odds. They said that the odds of drawing a bridge hand of 13 cards in proper sequence is less then 1 in 600 billion. The best minds of the day have concluded the age of the universe to be between thirteen and a half to fifteen billion years old. So it would be unlikely that you would draw that hand once in 15 billion years let alone something as complex as random atoms forming something as complex as a gene sequence. Let alone enough gene sequences to form an organism complex enough to attain consciousness, enough so that it knows that it knows. What are the odds of that happening at least once in 15 billion years? Be no means is this a proof, but it is a question?

 

[Singularity]

Sin, self will, and deception.

It’s a pretty hefty assumption to say that all those who don’t know God are just deceiving themselves.

cranster:

I read paley’s watch and some arguments that followed talking about odds. They said that the odds of drawing a bridge hand of 13 cards in proper sequence is less then 1 in 600 billion. The best minds of the day have concluded the age of the universe to be between thirteen and a half to fifteen billion years old. So it would be unlikely that you would draw that hand once in 15 billion years let alone something as complex as random atoms forming something as complex as a gene sequence. Let alone enough gene sequences to form an organism complex enough to attain consciousness, enough so that it knows that it knows. What are the odds of that happening at least once in 15 billion years? Be no means is this a proof, but it is a question?

That does not show with certainty that God can be known. What it does show is that many variables had to fall into place to have the universe as it is today.

 

[cranster]

have you looked at Thomas Aquinas proofs? If not I suggest you do.

 

[agangbern]

From Vatican I:

With these statements in mind, I have two questions:

1.) What human reason allows us to believe in God, or know God, with certainty? Please be specific. (Arguments such as Paley’s Watch wouldn’t work because it is just an argument and doesn’t show God with certainty.)

2.) If God can be made known with certainty through reason, why do so many people claim they do not know God?

Reason? Mine is simple but it satisfies my curiosity.
First, I recognize the fact that LIFE exists, and
Second, that life could never proceed or come forth from purely inorganic/non-living thing, and
Third, nothing could come forth without being caused by another except it is itself self-existing/self-sustaining.

It is simply contrary to correct reason to think that there is no Primary/Ultimate source of LIFE. My reason has no choice but to admit the fact of an UItimate/Primary source of Life. And that source I simply recognize as God.
Then, once we have recognized that fact, let us relate ourselves to that God and experience for ourselves His gradual revelation of Himself to us. Many people claim they do not know God? It is precisely because they do not accept some real facts and so miss the opportunity to relate themselves to God and to experience His reality.

 

[Church_Militant]

It’s a pretty hefty assumption to say that all those who don’t know God are just deceiving themselves.

That’s not exactly what I meant.

I’m saying that you can attribute it to one or more of those things, depending on the individual.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear.