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Maximilian75
Guest
My statistic can be found under point number 3 midway through this article.
Belief in the Real Presence from 87% to 34%. Hypotheses on why?
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Gorgias
Guest
Poor catechesis over the past three generations. If you don’t know it’s the Real Presence, you won’t believe it is. 
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I really like Fr. Heilman’s prayer activities and lots of stuff he does, but I tend to think that not believing in the Real Presence is a sign of poor catechesis and lack of faith in general, not something brought on by receiving in the hand.
One could, I suppose, make the argument that making the Church more ordinary and accessible in general post-Vatican II instead of imposing, Gothic, magisterial, speaking Latin etc removed a few layers of mystery and ritual that might have helped people, especially young, impressionable people, to believe more in the Real Presence.
One could, I suppose, make the argument that making the Church more ordinary and accessible in general post-Vatican II instead of imposing, Gothic, magisterial, speaking Latin etc removed a few layers of mystery and ritual that might have helped people, especially young, impressionable people, to believe more in the Real Presence.
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TK421
Guest
Modern society is more porous to all sorts of ideas: the net result being a vague, unformed spirituality combined with a strong emphasis on personal emotions being the instrument to discern truth from untruth. Catholics aren’t insulated in tight-knit communities. Faith doesn’t play a central role to many people’s lives. The world has less respect for the mystical and otherworldly. Catholics are less catechized both formally and through example. Hard teachings are shunned from in order to maximize pain reduction.
People statistically marked as ‘Catholic’ are only Catholic in a sacramental sense.
People statistically marked as ‘Catholic’ are only Catholic in a sacramental sense.
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BlackFriar
Guest
This is second hand information.
I would like to see the details of the actual survey and method before making any comment myself.
I would like to see the details of the actual survey and method before making any comment myself.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
What study is referenced?
What was the methodology?
Was this a study of practicing Catholics? How was the term “practicing” defined?
As a good friend of mine once said, when it comes to most surveys, “Catholic” is simply anyone who self identifies as Catholic.
Until I can at least read the study, I’m not going to set my hair on fire and run about screaming.
What was the methodology?
Was this a study of practicing Catholics? How was the term “practicing” defined?
As a good friend of mine once said, when it comes to most surveys, “Catholic” is simply anyone who self identifies as Catholic.
Until I can at least read the study, I’m not going to set my hair on fire and run about screaming.
A
Augustinian
Guest
Exactly my thought on this. Were people asked what they believe, or were they asked what they think the Church believes? This is really not clear at all, and depending on the answer, a different solution
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PJM
Guest
WOW!
Thank you,
It brings back “my” our fight to save our Church.
I won’t name names but our little country parish of about 500 families was told one Sunday that the Parish Council had approved paying $25,000.00 to a renowned [infamous before he became famous] priest from outside the Archdiocese, would be here in about 2 weeks to bring us up to date on the NOW replaced ENVIRONMENT AND ART IN CATHOLIC WORSHIP [a Bishop’s -SUB-committee mandate of “required by Rome” changes that “HAD TO BE MADE”; when in FACT this document was not even PRESENTED To the USCCB Body before it was MADE LAW. … IT WAS NEVER ROME APPROVED or even desired.
With the support of some Key Parish members, I formed a SOCS committee [Save Our Church & School], and wrote a weekly mailing that explained the TRUTH about what ROME demanded, sent to all registered parishioners.
We demanded a NEW Parish Council [and got it…thank GOD] and lobbied for our candidates who won in a landslide. [There were just a few instigators of the proposed new NEEDED church that would cost Millions]… And we did a 50 year study showed that the population in our town was stable with no notable change seen and none foreseen [verified by the City Council and Mayor]… so the “need” was WANT not NEED
We with perseverance won we out and lost dare I say “ONLY” our communion rail. {I was in the Church the day it was removed and actually cried]
There is a great more to this story; but …
THANK YOU Father for your faith, your courage and your example, and thnaks for POSTING this… AWESOME!
God Bless and guide all of you,
Patrick
Thank you,
It brings back “my” our fight to save our Church.
I won’t name names but our little country parish of about 500 families was told one Sunday that the Parish Council had approved paying $25,000.00 to a renowned [infamous before he became famous] priest from outside the Archdiocese, would be here in about 2 weeks to bring us up to date on the NOW replaced ENVIRONMENT AND ART IN CATHOLIC WORSHIP [a Bishop’s -SUB-committee mandate of “required by Rome” changes that “HAD TO BE MADE”; when in FACT this document was not even PRESENTED To the USCCB Body before it was MADE LAW. … IT WAS NEVER ROME APPROVED or even desired.
With the support of some Key Parish members, I formed a SOCS committee [Save Our Church & School], and wrote a weekly mailing that explained the TRUTH about what ROME demanded, sent to all registered parishioners.
We demanded a NEW Parish Council [and got it…thank GOD] and lobbied for our candidates who won in a landslide. [There were just a few instigators of the proposed new NEEDED church that would cost Millions]… And we did a 50 year study showed that the population in our town was stable with no notable change seen and none foreseen [verified by the City Council and Mayor]… so the “need” was WANT not NEED
We with perseverance won we out and lost dare I say “ONLY” our communion rail. {I was in the Church the day it was removed and actually cried]
There is a great more to this story; but …
THANK YOU Father for your faith, your courage and your example, and thnaks for POSTING this… AWESOME!
God Bless and guide all of you,
Patrick
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PJM
Guest
It is more than poor catechesis my friend, although that was a key element of it. And HOW this came about is a story by itself.
Other “MANDATES” presented as required also factor greatly in the SHOCKING demise of believe in the Real Presence.
FROM OUR CATECHISM
1074 “The liturgy is the summit toward which the activity of the Church is directed; it is also the font from which all her power flows.” It is therefore the privileged place for catechizing the People of God. “Catechesis is intrinsically linked with the whole of liturgical and sacramental activity, for it is in the sacraments, especially in the Eucharist, that Christ Jesus works in fullness for the transformation of men.”
1324 The Eucharist is "the source and summit of the Christian life." “The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself, our Pasch.”[sacrifice]
REMOVAL OF COMMUNION RAILS WHICH LED TO
Communion in the HAND WHICH LED TO
“EXTRAORDINARY” [MEANS WHEN THERE IS A REAL NEED OTHER THAN CONVENIENCE OR PREFERENCE]; BUT NOT THE NORM…Minister of GOD in Holy Communion…
If “anyone” CAN distribute God in Holy Communion; CAN IT REALLY BE GOD? was the subliminal message. And this combination has had what some desired as the end effect.
GOD Help us!
Patrick
Other “MANDATES” presented as required also factor greatly in the SHOCKING demise of believe in the Real Presence.
FROM OUR CATECHISM
1074 “The liturgy is the summit toward which the activity of the Church is directed; it is also the font from which all her power flows.” It is therefore the privileged place for catechizing the People of God. “Catechesis is intrinsically linked with the whole of liturgical and sacramental activity, for it is in the sacraments, especially in the Eucharist, that Christ Jesus works in fullness for the transformation of men.”
1324 The Eucharist is "the source and summit of the Christian life." “The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself, our Pasch.”[sacrifice]
REMOVAL OF COMMUNION RAILS WHICH LED TO
Communion in the HAND WHICH LED TO
“EXTRAORDINARY” [MEANS WHEN THERE IS A REAL NEED OTHER THAN CONVENIENCE OR PREFERENCE]; BUT NOT THE NORM…Minister of GOD in Holy Communion…
If “anyone” CAN distribute God in Holy Communion; CAN IT REALLY BE GOD? was the subliminal message. And this combination has had what some desired as the end effect.
GOD Help us!
Patrick
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R_H_Benson
Guest
Because the Church went from this:
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to this:
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Lex orandi, lex credendi.
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to this:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
Lex orandi, lex credendi.
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paperwight
Guest
And another consideration is how was the question phrased - if it was something like ‘Do you believe that Jesus is physically present in the Eucharist?’, then even the Holy Father would have answered ‘No’.
Jesus is really, truly and substantially present, but His presence is sacramental Presence, something unique. I think sometimes people take ‘physical’ to mean ‘really’, as opposed to ‘symbolic’, which is not true Catholic teaching,
Jesus is really, truly and substantially present, but His presence is sacramental Presence, something unique. I think sometimes people take ‘physical’ to mean ‘really’, as opposed to ‘symbolic’, which is not true Catholic teaching,
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Mattapoisett64
Guest
Would you have us believe that your second picture is representative of how the Eucharist is celebrated in 99% of churches today?
I don’t quite get what you’re saying here. The Church teaches that the Eucharist = Jesus.
J
Jeanne_S
Guest
I agree.The focus has become more on the priest rather than the Eucharist during the consecration.My parish is in the round,with the alter situated n the center for all to see.However this arrangement really serves as a distraction because unless one keeps their focus on thevEuchrist during the elevation( which I do BTY) it is all to easy to become distracted by the congregants etc.
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paperwight
Guest
Sorry, I can see that the wording of the second sentence is confused.
I’ll try rephrasing the whole post, with apologies.
Jesus is ‘really, truly and substantially present’ as it says in the Catechism. However His presence is of a unique type - it is Sacramental. His Presence is not subject to decay, as all other things are because they are physical, and He is not confined to a particular space or time - He can be present all over the world simultaneously, and be received by millions without being diminished or used up…
Catholics believe that Jesus is ‘really’ present, and if they are poorly catechised, take that to mean ‘physically.’ because they know that the church teaches that His presence is not merely symbolic and they only know of those two alternatives.
I’ll try rephrasing the whole post, with apologies.
Jesus is ‘really, truly and substantially present’ as it says in the Catechism. However His presence is of a unique type - it is Sacramental. His Presence is not subject to decay, as all other things are because they are physical, and He is not confined to a particular space or time - He can be present all over the world simultaneously, and be received by millions without being diminished or used up…
Catholics believe that Jesus is ‘really’ present, and if they are poorly catechised, take that to mean ‘physically.’ because they know that the church teaches that His presence is not merely symbolic and they only know of those two alternatives.
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FollowChrist34
Guest
Wow. Is this accurate? That would explain some of my struggles with and alienation from the modern RCC. I am not sure I can believe it to be this bad though.
C
ConfusedLucy
Guest
When I did my first communion I think it was kind of just assumed that we understood this so naturally some will fall through the gaps.
For all intents and purposes, it is “physically” the body and blood of Christ. Only the appearance of bread and wine remain. I see what you’re saying, but essentially when we receive the Eucharist, we are eating Jesus’ left foot along with the rest of Him.
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FollowChrist34
Guest
Hold the rotten tomatoes, but ironically enough it was Luther’s writing that pounded the Real Presence into my head as the sacramental core or heart of the Mass, the Christian faith. And there it remains. I have never had the slightest trouble believing it - once I decided I believed in God, the Real Presence followed naturally, organically if you will. That is why you go to Mass, more or less. I am puzzled about the lack of belief from Christians, people who profess belief in the Resurrection and an afterlife, among many many other supernatural events. That is a big one to drop in my opinion. Again, if this is true. I am learning to be a little leery of some of these reports.
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