Belief of purgatory

[steve-b]

Thank you all for good answers and advice. You guys are helping me with finding out what is right and what is not. I’m so thankful toward the Lord that I’m given the opportunity to connect with so many other catholics and get good advice and answers to my questions.

God bless you all❤

In extension to all the posts so far

All links are operational

Purgatory also accounts for “the few” who are saved since everyone in Purgatory goes to heaven

However,

All are/will be saved = apocatastasis / apokatastasis/ universalism = heresy

When God tested the angels, 1/3 failed the test. Rev 12:4 Revelation 12:4 RSVCE - His tail swept down a third of the - Bible Gateway That is why hell was created. A permanent and endless separation from God.

When judgement takes place, a person’s end state is made permanent.
God is testing humanity NOW in this life. And as Jesus said, giving us a heads up in advance, only a few are saved.

From:

Luke 13:23-28 , few are saved
Did Jesus contradict the questioners question? No. He validated it and doubled down on the answer.
where did Jesus answer come from? The Father.

Bottom line then,

The Church

• does not teach that no one is in hell i.e. hell is empty
• does NOT teach that all will be saved.

Ergo, “all are saved or all will be saved” (apokatastasis, apocatastasis, universalism) is condemned, i.e. it is heresy. Church References linked above

God has left us without exact information (as in who specifically, is in hell) . Not that no one is in hell.

Fear of God (The Lord) is the beginning of wisdom Psalm 111:10 RSVCE - The fear of the LORD is the beginning - Bible Gateway

If that point is lost, or being blurred, or even discounted today, by ANYBODY, to cause indifferentism, confusion among the faithful because of misapplied or false ecumenism, or false sentimentality towards God’s justice, then the ones promoting such error by lowering the bar, rather than keeping the bar high with solid teaching, will find themselves in huge trouble. Ez3:17-21 RSVCE - “Son of man, I have made you a - Bible Gateway

 

[Dovekin]

The Church

• does not teach that no one is in hell i.e. hell is empty
• does NOT teach that all will be saved.

Ergo, “all are saved or all will be saved” (apokatastasis, apocatastasis, universalism) is condemned, i.e. it is heresy .

Except that, using that logic:

The Church

• does not teach that any one is in hell i.e. hell is occupied
• does NOT teach that any one will not be saved.

Ergo, “anyone will not be saved” is condemned, i.e. it is heresy .

What the Church teaches is that we do not know if any one is saved or not. Ergo neither ergo above introduces a correct conclusion.

We can hope that all will be saved. We can hope that some will be punished for their sins. But we do not know.

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

The Church

• does not teach that no one is in hell i.e. hell is empty
• does NOT teach that all will be saved.

Ergo, “all are saved or all will be saved” (apokatastasis, apocatastasis, universalism) is condemned, i.e. it is heresy .

Except that, using that logic:

The Church

• does not teach that any one is in hell i.e. hell is occupied
• does NOT teach that any one will not be saved.

Ergo, “anyone will not be saved” is condemned, i.e. it is heresy .

What the Church teaches is that we do not know if any one is saved or not. Ergo neither ergo above introduces a correct conclusion.

We can hope that all will be saved. We can hope that some will be punished for their sins. But we do not know.

When Jesus said Few are saved Lk 13:23-28 RSVCE - And some one said to him, “Lord, will - Bible Gateway and He didn’t back off of that, Then where does the hope that all will be saved come from? That contradicts what Jesus taught. Go back and look at my post. The links show that The belief that “All will be saved” is heresy

the idea was formally condemned in the first of the famous [anathemas] pronounced at the Council of Constantinople in 543: Ei tis ten teratode apokatastasis presbeuei anathema esto [See, also, Justinian, Liber adversus Originem, anathemas 7 and 9.] The idea was therefor looked on as heterodox by the [Church]

IOW it’s been condemned for 1475 yrs.

 

[TK421]

Hello. I’m one year old as a catholic and I struggle to believe in purgatory. I believe God is good and loves us, and that he brings us to Heaven after our lives on earth. I want to stay with the Church teachings and believe in Purgatory but I struggle a bit. Are Purgatory a doctrine which we as catholics are obligied to believe in? And why do you believe in Purgatory?

Thanks & God bless!

Well, we already know as a matter of fact that there is a lot of suffering on Earth, and God permits it to happen.

 

[tweedlealice]

In our Apochraphyl books: See
II Maccabees: Judas Maccabeus went to war. Some of His soldiers died. He saw Pagan amulets around their necks!! BIG NONO! They’re dead! But he goes to the temple and offers up a silver offering for them. If it’s just heaven and hell, that’s a waste of money. Hence, Purgatory…
Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison; truly I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny (Matthew 5:25-26).
I Corinthians 3: 11-15.
For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble—each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
It will not hurt to believe in Purgatory, as there are scripture verses to support this possibility. It’s READ BETWEEN THE LINES MESSAGE. The word TRINITY is not in Bible. The word Purgatory is not in Bible.
Rejoice in Gods love for you and His calling you into the faith by the Holy Spirit.
In Jesus name
Amen

 

[Dovekin]

Jesus said Few are saved

He did not say anything even remotely like that. When asked, he redirected attention toward the salvation of the inquirer. In a similar situation, he said that all things are possible with God. Decisions on salvation are left to God.

My major objection was to the logic of your argument. Or lack of. As I stated, you can as easily conclude the opposite using your logic. You cannot take what the Church does not teach, and claim the Church does teach the opposite. “The Church does not teach the moon is made of green cheese” does not mean “the Church does teach the moon is made of swiss cheese.”

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Jesus said Few are saved

He did not say anything even remotely like that. When asked, he redirected attention toward the salvation of the inquirer. In a similar situation, he said that all things are possible with God. Decisions on salvation are left to God.

Jesus made it a global statement, few are saved

Dovekin:

My major objection was to the logic of your argument. Or lack of. As I stated, you can as easily conclude the opposite using your logic. You cannot take what the Church does not teach, and claim the Church does teach the opposite. “The Church does not teach the moon is made of green cheese” does not mean “the Church does teach the moon is made of swiss cheese.”

I hope that’s not your attempt at denial of what Jesus said.

 

[Dovekin]

Jesus made it a global statement, few are saved

Where? When?

Why would I deny what Jesus said?

 

[steve-b]

steve-b:

Jesus made it a global statement, few are saved

Where? When?

Why would I deny what Jesus said?

Beats me. Because He was crystal clear

Matthew 7:13-14 , Mt 7:13-14 RSVCE - The Narrow Gate - “Enter by the - Bible Gateway
13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy,[a] that leads to destruction, [ ἀπώλεια, ] and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few. [ few = ὀλίγοι = http://bibleapps.com/greek/3641.htm ]

And

Luke 13:23-28 , Lk 13:23-28 RSVCE - And some one said to him, “Lord, will - Bible Gateway
23 And some one said to him, “Lord, will those who are saved be few?” [ few = ὀλίγοι http://bibleapps.com/greek/3641.htm ]. And he said to them, 24 “Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the householder has risen up and shut the door, you will begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us.’ He will answer you, ‘I do not know where you come from.’ 26 Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ 27 But he will say, ‘I tell you, I do not know where you come from; depart from me, all you workers of iniquity!’ 28 There you will weep and gnash your teeth,

Jesus knowing in advance what He is going to go through for our salvation, and what all humanity will go through, down to the last person born, answers the question for us.

• Jesus didn’t deny the questioner’s point.
• Jesus actually validated the point, and expanded on it. Only a few are saved.
  meaning most go to hell by their own choice

He answers the point twice, and doesn’t change His answer.

Those who die in a state of grace, (no mortal sins on their soul) but not perfect enough for a straight shot to heaven, go through purification prior to entrance to heaven. [1 Corinthians 3:12-15] 1 cor 3:12-15 RSVCE - Now if any one builds on the foundation - Bible Gateway

as an aside, THOSE being purified go to heaven after that. So they are included in with the “few”
And

Mt 24:12-14, Matthew 24:12-14 RSVCE - And because wickedness is multiplied, - Bible Gateway