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Lily_Bernans
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Absolutely true. A wonderful suggestion. She needs to learn the basics, and I mean no offense by that, because she doesn’t know them.
All of my upper level theology students, no matter how intelligent, began their bachelor’s degree by studying the basics of the Catholic faith and the basics of the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament.
Kate, you are trying to debate complex theological points with no base of knowledge. I don’t mean to be uncharitable. We were all there at one point. I know PhD professors who did not specialize in biblical studies, and consult those who did before answering a complex answer about the Bible. Go back and study the Catechism. Get a Study Bible or join a bible study group at your parish. It’s good to question, but you need to have a firm base before you do.
Good luck to you.
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Lily_Bernans
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That’s because you don’t discuss anything in depth. You just tell the other person, no, they are wrong, with no proof, and move on.I don’t follow. I jump from topic as there are many topics being discussed.
You need to choose one topic and stick to it to have a discussion.
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NM505StKate
Guest
I am studying the bible in a way, Mostly through watching YouTube people as well as podcasts that are going through it chapter by chapter. It is quite educational.
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JB_Brother_4446
Guest
Papias is more trustworthy than any of those scholars, he lived in that time period.
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JB_Brother_4446
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The Pharisees bought it with his money, so there is no contradiction. And the rope Judas used could have been weak.
I will repeat it: Matthew wrote for the Jews.
The actual text may had said “before Quirinius was govenor of Syria.”
comereason.org/roman-census.asp
And contrary to this article Herod died in 1 B.C.
I still think you need to do some rethinking about your beliefs.
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Thorolfr
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Of course, all we have of Papias are quotes from him in the works of others. There are also some odd things in Papias:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papias_of_Hierapolis
How would someone live on after bursting open in the middle and having their intestines spill out?
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NM505StKate
Guest
From my research 120 to 180 CE is a tad far away from the events portrayed.
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NM505StKate
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In Acts Judas bought it not the Pharisees. Yeah the rope could have been weak but Acts has it that Judas is walking along, fell and his guts spilled out. Quite different from a rope breaking/
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NM505StKate
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Reading Acts now and there is no assumption that Judas was hanging before he fell.
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JB_Brother_4446
Guest
What Papias is saying is that Judas survived his suicide attempt and then burst open.
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JB_Brother_4446
Guest
It is closer than 2014 and 2015 A.D.
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JB_Brother_4446
Guest
Just because it is not in Scripture doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Are you being sola scriptura?
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JB_Brother_4446
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NM505StKate
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Lily_Bernans
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“And falling headlong - The word here rendered “headlong” - πρηνής prēnēs (Latin “pronus,” whence our English word “prone”) - means properly “bent forward, head-foremost”; and the idea is, that his position in hanging himself was such that when the cord broke he fell headlong, or fell forward on his face. This can easily be supposed if he threw himself from a rock or elevated place. He first hanged himself, and then fell and was burst asunder. See the notes on Matthew 27:5.”
If you’re going to study the Bible word-for-word, then you really need to learn to read Hebrew and ancient Greek. I had to learn those and Latin for my PhD program in Theology. Many misinterpretations can occur if one does not know the original word used and its proper interpretation. And really, there is no guarantee that the original intent of the word was not changed during the interpretation from Greek (or Hebrew) to Latin to English.
Edit: I cannot speak those languages. I can just read and write them, write to a certain extent.
If you’re going to study the Bible word-for-word, then you really need to learn to read Hebrew and ancient Greek. I had to learn those and Latin for my PhD program in Theology. Many misinterpretations can occur if one does not know the original word used and its proper interpretation. And really, there is no guarantee that the original intent of the word was not changed during the interpretation from Greek (or Hebrew) to Latin to English.
Edit: I cannot speak those languages. I can just read and write them, write to a certain extent.
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Lily_Bernans
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"Matthew’s account of this incident (Matthew 27:7f) has been alleged to contradict what Luke said here; but, in actuality, the two accounts are in perfect harmony. Judas hanged himself, as Matthew related; but his body also fell, as in Luke. We do not know whether the fall took place as a result of Judas’ bungling efforts at suicide, or if his body hung until it fell of natural causes. Tradition says that he fell while in the process of hanging himself. Johnson says:
He probably hanged himself on a tree projecting over the precipices of the Valley of Hinnom, and afterward, on account of the rope or limb breaking, fell headlong with such force as to burst his body open on the jagged rocks. This is the traditional account of his death.[23]
Such alleged “contradictions” as skeptics delight to point out from such variations in the holy gospels are called “pseudocons,” which means sham-contradictions, being, in fact, not contradictions at all but variations expected from independent accounts of events in the New Testament."
studylight.org/commentary/acts/1-18.html
He probably hanged himself on a tree projecting over the precipices of the Valley of Hinnom, and afterward, on account of the rope or limb breaking, fell headlong with such force as to burst his body open on the jagged rocks. This is the traditional account of his death.[23]
Such alleged “contradictions” as skeptics delight to point out from such variations in the holy gospels are called “pseudocons,” which means sham-contradictions, being, in fact, not contradictions at all but variations expected from independent accounts of events in the New Testament."
studylight.org/commentary/acts/1-18.html
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Thorolfr
Guest
It’s still a little odd that Acts doesn’t mention that Judas hung himself first. Acts also says, “Judas bought a field” whereas Matthew says that it was the Chief Priest who used the money from Judas to buy a field. That is not exactly the same thing.
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Lily_Bernans
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Once again, to learn the truth, one has to resort to the original language.
The verse in Matthew uses the word ἀγοράζω (transliterated agorazō) which is translated consistently as “buy” or “purchase” in twenty-seven places in the NT. Three more instances in Revelation are translated “redeem” or “ransom” which certainly carries the same general idea.
A further examination of the verse in Acts shows that the Greek word used is κτάομαι (transliterated ktaomai). The other places it occurs in scripture are translated in as “acquire,” “get” “gain,” “obtain,” “bought,” and even “control”. It seems quite likely that the word could be used for something acquired through a transaction in which you used your own money, but it quite often used for other ways of coming into possession or control.
It seems quite probable that the two verses can be be reconciled. The Chief Priests made the actual purchase, but with Judas’ money, so Judas used that land to hang himself. Whether the Priests deeded it to him as part of the purchase or he was only squatting on it out of some morbid interest in seeing what happened to his money, or some other explanation is not stated. There really is no conflict between the two passages.
If I gave you the money to go buy some sandwiches, some people might say you bought some sandwiches, and some might say I bought them. Although it might be a little confusing, both would be right.
Almost always, any perceived inconsistencies in the Bible can be cleared up by looking at the original language and the wording used.
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