Believing In Faith Alone (relocated here)

[twb1621]

To those who believe in the Word of the Lord, the Truth, but believe they are promised salvation through faith alone I pose the following questions;

How is it that although there are many verses in the Gospel that proclaim the necessity for works in love of each other, charity and humility, those who believe in faith alone refuse to accept these proclamations of Jesus?

In particular, I pose the following verses that have been presented to many who believe faith is salvation in itself. I suggest your deepest consideration before responding. These proclamations are very direct in meaning. Could living by the correct answer be the difference between salvation and condemnation as Christ has spoken or was He wrong? When these verses are presented to believers of salvation through faith alone, there is rarely a response at all let alone a reasonable explanation or interpretation offered. As I said, the verses are ignored completely;

***Matthew CH25 31 *****14 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, 32 and all the nations ****15 will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous ****16 will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ 40 And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ **
***41 *****17 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ 44 **18 Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ 45 He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ 46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
Finally; For those who believe works comes automatically and are not of our free will, where does the Gospels say our free will is taken away leaving our actions or works to the responsibility of the Holy Spirit? And if this were the case, why would Jesus judge us on our works of love if we have faith to begin with? Why also would works of love be acceptable yet as Jesus has proclaimed, God knows what is in the hearts of man and that which is done for reward or praise or out of pride has no value?
Matthew shows us that Jesus WILL judge us on our works which He would not do if we didn’t have the ability to choose not tp perform. The very essense of these verses stand against the auto response of Faith to perform works. Yes, we are saved by Faith provided we live according to His teachings and those teachings include performing the works we are responsible for. Otherwise, how just could God be to judge us on something that we had no choice over?

 

[JonNC]

=twb1621;5427609]To those who believe in the Word of the Lord, the Truth, but believe they are promised salvation through faith alone I pose the following questions;

How is it that although there are many verses in the Gospel that proclaim the necessity for works in love of each other, charity and humility, those who believe in faith alone refuse to accept these proclamations of Jesus?/

Those that properly believe in faith alone do accept and are obedient to Christ’s commands. For while we are justified by faith alone, faith cannot be alone. I saving faith is one that is active: growing in His grace, and spreading that grace through performing those tasks of good works that He places before us to do.

The Lutheran confessions say:

1. We believe, teach, and confess also that all men, but those especially who are born again and renewed by the Holy Ghost, are bound to do good works.

9] 4. In this sense the words necessary, shall, and must are employed correctly and in a Christian manner also with respect to the regenerate, and in no way are contrary to the form of sound words and speech.

10] 5. Nevertheless, by the words mentioned, necessitas, necessarium, necessity and necessary, if they be employed concerning the regenerate, not coercion, but only due obedience is to be understood, which the truly believing, so far as they are regenerate, render not from coercion or the driving of the Law, but from a voluntary spirit; because they are no more under the Law, but under grace, Rom. 6:14; 7:6; 8:14.

11] 6. Accordingly, we also believe, teach, and confess that when it is said: **The regenerate do good works from a free spirit, this is not to be understood as though it is at the option of the regenerate man to do or to forbear doing good when he wishes, and that he can nevertheless retain faith if he intentionally perseveres in sins. **
12] 7. Yet this is not to be understood otherwise than as the Lord Christ and His apostles themselves declare, namely, regarding the liberated spirit, that it does not do this from fear of punishment, like a servant, but from love of righteousness, like children, Rom. 8:15.

In particular, I pose the following verses that have been presented to many who believe faith is salvation in itself. I suggest your deepest consideration before responding. These proclamations are very direct in meaning. Could living by the correct answer be the difference between salvation and condemnation as Christ has spoken or was He wrong? When these verses are presented to believers of salvation through faith alone, there is rarely a response at all let alone a reasonable explanation or interpretation offered. As I said, the verses are ignored completely;

I think the above quote from the confessions do not ignore, but instead confirm and boldly pronounce the requirement, necessity, obligation of good works for the regenerate.

Yes, we are saved by Faith provided we live according to His teachings and those teachings include performing the works we are responsible for. Otherwise, how just could God be to judge us on something that we had no choice over?

The fact is, for us, the regenerate, we have free will to reject His grace. So, you are right, we are justified by faith, but it must be a live, active faith.

Jon

 

[Jerom3]

jonNC

You have it right. The Lutheran statements are about “saved” people. There is nothing anywhere that says works will “save” you but of course, if you are saved, then you are expected and will do good works. They go hand in hand. James was right when he said that if you have faith, you will do good works, if not, then you had no faith.

twb1621

As to your mention of the judgment of Matthew chapter 25, you are missing the point. Jesus describes this in the 24th chapter of Matthew. Those who are saved will not have to face this judgment or the great white throne judgment that comes later.

Taking His words in context, he is talking of the judgment of the nations at His return at the end of the great tribulation and it is talking of how the nations have treated Israel. This is not the “great judgment day” everyone thinks of. There will be 144,000 Jews going throughout the world preaching the gospel at that time and announcing the soon return of Christ. Read Matthew 24:9-14 and Revelation 11:1-6 for a revelation of what the 25th chapter of Matthew is talking about.

Then the people of the world will have their choice of whether to help Israel or ignore and curse them. At the end of the tribulation, Jesus will judge them as God said to Abraham: “And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.”(Gen 12:3)

In Matthew 25:42-43, Jesus is referring to the persecuted Jews of the tribulation period.

JC

 

[Sellers1]

To those who believe in the Word of the Lord, the Truth, but believe they are promised salvation through faith alone I pose the following questions;

How is it that although there are many verses in the Gospel that proclaim the necessity for works in love of each other, charity and humility, those who believe in faith alone refuse to accept these proclamations of Jesus?

In particular, I pose the following verses that have been presented to many who believe faith is salvation in itself. I suggest your deepest consideration before responding. These proclamations are very direct in meaning. Could living by the correct answer be the difference between salvation and condemnation as Christ has spoken or was He wrong? When these verses are presented to believers of salvation through faith alone, there is rarely a response at all let alone a reasonable explanation or interpretation offered. As I said, the verses are ignored completely;

***Matthew CH25 31 ***14 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, 32 and all the nations 15 will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous 16 will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ 40 And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’
***41 ***17 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ 44 18 Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ 45 He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ 46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Finally; For those who believe works comes automatically and are not of our free will, where does the Gospels say our free will is taken away leaving our actions or works to the responsibility of the Holy Spirit? And if this were the case, why would Jesus judge us on our works of love if we have faith to begin with? Why also would works of love be acceptable yet as Jesus has proclaimed, God knows what is in the hearts of man and that which is done for reward or praise or out of pride has no value?
Matthew shows us that Jesus WILL judge us on our works which He would not do if we didn’t have the ability to choose not tp perform. The very essense of these verses stand against the auto response of Faith to perform works. Yes, we are saved by Faith provided we live according to His teachings and those teachings include performing the works we are responsible for. Otherwise, how just could God be to judge us on something that we had no choice over?

If you really had the faith in Christ that St. Paul speaks of, you wouldn’t have even had to bother posting this thread.

Peace

 

[twb1621]

Those that properly believe in faith alone do accept and are obedient to Christ’s commands. For while we are justified by faith alone, faith cannot be alone. I saving faith is one that is active: growing in His grace, and spreading that grace through performing those tasks of good works that He places before us to do.

The Lutheran confessions say:

I think the above quote from the confessions do not ignore, but instead confirm and boldly pronounce the requirement, necessity, obligation of good works for the regenerate.

The fact is, for us, the regenerate, we have free will to reject His grace. So, you are right, we are justified by faith, but it must be a live, active faith.

Jon

Thank you for you attention to the question, your response is sincerely appreciated…

 

[twb1621]

twb1621

As to your mention of the judgment of Matthew chapter 25, you are missing the point. Jesus describes this in the 24th chapter of Matthew. Those who are saved will not have to face this judgment or the great white throne judgment that comes later.

Thanks Jerom3, That is an interesting concept, but doesn’t follow the historic Biblical interpretation, which is as follows;

[31-46] The conclusion of the discourse, which is peculiar to Matthew, portrays the final judgment that will accompany the parousia. Although often called a “parable,” it is not really such, for the only parabolic elements are the depiction of the Son of Man as a shepherd and of the righteous and the wicked as sheep and goats respectively (⇒ Matthew 25:32-33). The criterion of judgment will be the deeds of mercy that have been done for the least of Jesus’ brothers (⇒ Matthew 25:40). A difficult and important question is the identification of these least brothers. Are they all people who have suffered hunger, thirst, etc. (⇒ Matthew 25:35, ⇒ 36) or a particular group of such sufferers? Scholars are divided in their response and arguments can be made for either side. But leaving aside the problem of what the traditional material that Matthew edited may have meant, it seems that a stronger case can be made for the view that in the evangelist’s sense the sufferers are Christians, probably Christian missionaries whose sufferings were brought upon them by their preaching of the gospel. The criterion of judgment for all the nations is their treatment of those who have borne to the world the message of Jesus, and this means ultimately their acceptance or rejection of Jesus himself; cf ⇒ Matthew 10:40, “Whoever receives you, receives me.”
**See the note on ⇒ Matthew 16:27. **

15 [32] All the nations: before the end the gospel will have been preached throughout the world (⇒ Matthew 24:14); thus the Gentiles will be judged on their response to it. But the phrase all the nations includes the Jews also, for at the judgment “the Son of Man . . . will repay everyone according to his conduct” (⇒ Matthew 16:27).

16 [37-40] The righteous will be astonished that in caring for the needs of the sufferers they were ministering to the Lord himself. One of these least brothers of mine: cf ⇒ Matthew 10:42.

17 [41] Fire prepared . . . his angels: cf 1 Enoch 10, 13 where it is said of the evil angels and Semyaza, their leader, “In those days they will lead them into the bottom of the fire - and in torment - in the prison (where) they will be locked up forever.”

18 [44-45] The accursed (⇒ Matthew 25:41) will be likewise astonished that their neglect of the sufferers was neglect of the Lord and will receive from him a similar answer.

 

[twb1621]

If you really had the faith in Christ that St. Paul speaks of, you wouldn’t have even had to bother posting this thread.

Peace

Sellers
I am not sure what you are reading into the question but you certainly didn’t respond to the subject of the post. Perhaps you accidently responded here to another thread. It was not for a lack of understanding on my part I posted the question, but to raise awareness in those (not everyone) who ignore 1/3 of the gospel thinking they need do nothing but have faith and that any future sins are on auto erase.

 

[Sellers1]

Sellers
I am not sure what you are reading into the question but you certainly didn’t respond to the subject of the post. Perhaps you accidently responded here to another thread. It was not for a lack of understanding on my part I posted the question, but to raise awareness in those (not everyone) who ignore 1/3 of the gospel thinking they need do nothing but have faith and that any future sins are on auto erase.

No mistake. I responded to what you said and you seem to be very misguided. 1/3 of the gospel says that you need more than faith to be saved? I have yet to see one verse say that. Better do some reading my friend. Your life isn’t enough restitution for one tiny sin against the holiness of God. It’s all about Christ.

I used to think the way you did.

 

[Louie1983]

No mistake. I responded to what you said and you seem to be very misguided. 1/3 of the gospel says that you need more than faith to be saved? I have yet to see one verse say that. Better do some reading my friend. Your life isn’t enough restitution for one tiny sin against the holiness of God. It’s all about Christ.

I used to think the way you did.

Why is it your responses never carry any proof of scripture, you simply dismiss them. Sign of weakness if you ask me.

Anyway, you say you have not come across any passage in the bible that says faith alone in not enough. how about:

James 2:24
“You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.”

• why does our lord in Mt 10:22; 24:13; Mk 13:13 say that we must endure to the end?
• Romans 11:19-23 “if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you” v.21 and “otherwise you too will be cut off” (v.22)

 

[geometer]

Little mistakes in the beginning, I think…

Jesus said to ask the Rabbis what the scriptures mean. Salvation, according to a Rabbi that I know, means God’s help. And, I believe that is everything that Jesus did and was about.

No one comes to the father except though salvation(yeshua).

And I do not understand how anyone could know salvation without trusting that God does exist and has the power to help.

Suppose that you ask God to help you in performing good works. Wouldn’t the miracle of his help be salvation?

 

[NDfan]

To those who believe in the Word of the Lord, the Truth, but believe they are promised salvation through faith alone I pose the following questions;

How is it that although there are many verses in the Gospel that proclaim the necessity for works in love of each other, charity and humility, those who believe in faith alone refuse to accept these proclamations of Jesus?

In particular, I pose the following verses that have been presented to many who believe faith is salvation in itself. I suggest your deepest consideration before responding. These proclamations are very direct in meaning. Could living by the correct answer be the difference between salvation and condemnation as Christ has spoken or was He wrong? When these verses are presented to believers of salvation through faith alone, there is rarely a response at all let alone a reasonable explanation or interpretation offered. As I said, the verses are ignored completely;

***Matthew CH25 31 ***14 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, 32 and all the nations 15 will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous 16 will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ 40 And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’
***41 ***17 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ 44 18 Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ 45 He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ 46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Finally; For those who believe works comes automatically and are not of our free will, where does the Gospels say our free will is taken away leaving our actions or works to the responsibility of the Holy Spirit? And if this were the case, why would Jesus judge us on our works of love if we have faith to begin with? Why also would works of love be acceptable yet as Jesus has proclaimed, God knows what is in the hearts of man and that which is done for reward or praise or out of pride has no value?
Matthew shows us that Jesus WILL judge us on our works which He would not do if we didn’t have the ability to choose not tp perform. The very essense of these verses stand against the auto response of Faith to perform works. Yes, we are saved by Faith provided we live according to His teachings and those teachings include performing the works we are responsible for. Otherwise, how just could God be to judge us on something that we had no choice over?

Salvation is absolutely by faith alone. We can’t do anything to earn our salvation as it is only by the grace of GOD that we even have Christ. Grace is free and cannot be earned. There are plenty of scriptural verses to support this so taking Matthew by itself is the problem with cherry picking from scripture to try and make a point.

Having said that I firmly believe that works come as a result of your faith. Ephesians supports this and even tells us that we perform works that GOD has prepared for us. But at the end of the day salvation is not the result of our works nor is it a combination of faith and works. Good works is simply doing our job as Christians and when we pass from this life to meet our creator there is absolutely nothing you can have on your resume that will impress GOD when it comes to works. We still fall short because we are sinners. The only way to overcome that is by the blood of Christ and to have Faith in HIM. That’s not achieved by good works. Good works happen because we have faith.

PEACE

 

[twb1621]

No mistake. I responded to what you said and you seem to be very misguided. 1/3 of the gospel says that you need more than faith to be saved? I have yet to see one verse say that. Better do some reading my friend. Your life isn’t enough restitution for one tiny sin against the holiness of God. It’s all about Christ.

I used to think the way you did.

You need to live the life along with having faith. That is by choice through free will. Just because you responded to what I said doesn’t make you right and I take the interpretive word from the 2000-year-old source before ever considering your resources. You know as well as I do where your Bible originated and that is where the interpretations should come from. What Bible version are you referring to?

 

[twb1621]

Salvation is absolutely by faith alone. We can’t do anything to earn our salvation as it is only by the grace of GOD that we even have Christ. Grace is free and cannot be earned. There are plenty of scriptural verses to support this so taking Matthew by itself is the problem with cherry picking from scripture to try and make a point.

Having said that I firmly believe that works come as a result of your faith. Ephesians supports this and even tells us that we perform works that GOD has prepared for us. But at the end of the day salvation is not the result of our works nor is it a combination of faith and works. Good works is simply doing our job as Christians and when we pass from this life to meet our creator there is absolutely nothing you can have on your resume that will impress GOD when it comes to works. We still fall short because we are sinners. The only way to overcome that is by the blood of Christ and to have Faith in HIM. That’s not achieved by good works. Good works happen because we have faith.

PEACE

To say that they come as a RESULT of is to say it is automatic and it isn’t. Yes of course Faith helps to strengthen us in grace. But If you are passing a destitute person on the street that seems to be in need of medical help but he is urine soaked and stained with vomit would you place him in your car and take him to the hospital or waste time to find some other way to avoid him being in your car? Do we pick and choose whom we will help because of odor or because we don’t want to get our property dirty? And why would Jesus judge us on the works as in Mathew even though we do them automatically because we have faith? Is faith without works dead? Where does it say in Gospel that we no longer have a mind or free will once the Holy Spirit enters us? Are we not urged by Paul to stay strong and resist the temptations of the world? Faith is a gift from God, yes. We cannot earn our salvation, correct. But we have the choice in every act of charity in the love of God we perform and that includes not performing some also. We are also judged on our charity to others by our intentions in our hearts so if you do something for the sack of recognition, it is mute. Now these points are all from gospel and all show we must chose sincerely out of our love for God to love and be charitable through our efforts or works. You shouldn’t need the specific Gospel quotes to know these are fact. These are the point I make here.

 

[twb1621]

Little mistakes in the beginning, I think…

Jesus said to ask the Rabbis what the scriptures mean. Salvation, according to a Rabbi that I know, means God’s help. And, I believe that is everything that Jesus did and was about.

No one comes to the father except though salvation(yeshua).

And I do not understand how anyone could know salvation without trusting that God does exist and has the power to help.

Suppose that you ask God to help you in performing good works. Wouldn’t the miracle of his help be salvation?

Everything we do in the name of God is with His help. He is our strength and we are weak saved or not. This also is biblical.

 

[JonNC]

=twb1621;5441804]To say that they come as a RESULT of is to say it is automatic and it isn’t.
Yes of course Faith helps to strengthen us in grace. But If you are passing a destitute person on the street that seems to be in need of medical help but he is urine soaked and stained with vomit would you place him in your car and take him to the hospital or waste time to find some other way to avoid him being in your car? Do we pick and choose whom we will help because of odor or because we don’t want to get our property dirty? And why would Jesus judge us on the works as in Mathew even though we do them automatically because we have faith? Is faith without works dead? Where does it say in Gospel that we no longer have a mind or free will once the Holy Spirit enters us? Are we not urged by Paul to stay strong and resist the temptations of the world? Faith is a gift from God, yes. We cannot earn our salvation, correct. But we have the choice in every act of charity in the love of God we perform and that includes not performing some also. We are also judged on our charity to others by our intentions in our hearts so if you do something for the sack of recognition, it is mute. Now these points are all from gospel and all show we must chose sincerely out of our love for God to love and be charitable through our efforts or works. You shouldn’t need the specific Gospel quotes to know these are fact. These are the point I make here.

Not intending to speak for NDFan.

When I say that good works are the *result *of faith, I am only speaking of an active faith that brings justification. It is not intended to mean that we lose our free will. IOW, someone who is regenerate has an active faith, because that is what Christ commands. If we don’t do His commands, either we never had a true, active, saving faith, or with our free will we choose to reject justification.

Jon

 

[twb1621]

Not intending to speak for NDFan.

When I say that good works are the *result *of faith, I am only speaking of an active faith that brings justification. It is not intended to mean that we lose our free will. IOW, someone who is regenerate has an active faith, because that is what Christ commands. If we don’t do His commands, either we never had a true, active, saving faith, or with our free will we choose to reject justification.

Jon

Thanks for your explanation, well said . . I better understand you and certainly agree with you.
God’s peace…

 

[Sellers1]

Why is it your responses never carry any proof of scripture, you simply dismiss them. Sign of weakness if you ask me.

Anyway, you say you have not come across any passage in the bible that says faith alone in not enough. how about:

James 2:24
“You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.”

• why does our lord in Mt 10:22; 24:13; Mk 13:13 say that we must endure to the end?
• Romans 11:19-23 “if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you” v.21 and “otherwise you too will be cut off” (v.22)

Do you really think that I am lacking in Scriptural proof? Try reading the entire Book of Romans and then come back and tell me that Paul is saying that you need faith + works to be saved. You want proof from me, you got it my freind! Read Romans…

 

[Sellers1]

You need to live the life along with having faith. That is by choice through free will. Just because you responded to what I said doesn’t make you right and I take the interpretive word from the 2000-year-old source before ever considering your resources. You know as well as I do where your Bible originated and that is where the interpretations should come from. What Bible version are you referring to?

I knew it. Sooner or later the Bible Version was going to be questioned. As far as where it came from we certainly do not agree and interpretation comes from the Holy Spirit. Do you not believe that as well?

 

[Louie1983]

Do you really think that I am lacking in Scriptural proof? Try reading the entire Book of Romans and then come back and tell me that Paul is saying that you need faith + works to be saved. You want proof from me, you got it my freind! Read Romans…

Thankyou seller1, How bout reading the whole bible?

you might want to read the the quotes i gave you…especially the last one that happens to be from the book of romans.

 

[Louie1983]

I knew it. Sooner or later the Bible Version was going to be questioned. As far as where it came from we certainly do not agree and interpretation comes from the Holy Spirit. Do you not believe that as well?

The catholic church believes that it guided by the holy spirit because jesus said he would never leave his church! Hence therefore yes we believe that church and it’s interpretations and teachings are guided by the holy spirit.

The canon of the bible was decided by a council, and that council was held by the catholic church as there were no other churches at the time! So the bible as we know it today was put together by the catholic church.

This is a historical fact that even many protestant scholars have acknowledged!