Believing in God without religion?

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Nairovyg said:
m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154826235003796&id=5898823795&ref=m_notif&notif_t=like this a video from Life.Church where they claim we do not need religion.

What exactly is religion? Why would people claim you do not need religion? Do we need religion?
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Hi!

…they are correct!

…no one needs religion to believe in God.

…Fellowship… well, that’s another species…

Cain and Abel did not have organized religion… they believed in God!

…not only did they believe but the felt Called to Fellowship… they both answered; each in his own individual way…

…at the end, though, there was something lacking…

Abel offered God, from his heart, the best of his possessions; while, Cain simply threw together some things and offered that.

Yahweh God was pleased with Abel’s offering. But He did not hold Cain’s in high regards…

Cain ended up murdering his brother.

Jesus, the Incarnate Word, Established His Church and Sent the Holy Spirit, the other Paraclete, to abide with and in the Church. Clearly, Jesus, being God, must have a better understanding of what Fellowship means. His Apostles understood this as they preached the Kingdom of God, Baptizing into the Body of Christ those who would be United to the Church: the Mystical Body of Christ.

Throughout the centuries many have attempted to change the course of God’s Salvific Plan by reformulating the means to God’s Fellowship–some have even embraced the fallacy of an invisible church where everyone can worship according to his/her preference (as Cain did). Cain’s fellowship was rejected by God.

As with Moses son’s, God will not accept an offering of strange fire–in this case, estranged fellowship!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
This is a Protestant view, just with a little spin to it.

He repeatedly states that you need “Christ and Christ alone” and not “religious works” and only “faith”. Which fits the Protestant view of salvation through faith alone, rather than the Catholic “faith + works”.

So I believe what he is alluding to is that he believes “religion” involves not relying solely upon the scripture and your personal relationship with God. This is what I get from reading between the lines.

At a Protestant church I went to we watched a video where a man did a slam poem called something along the lines of “I love Jesus and I hate religion”
 
jcrichton said:
Hi!

…they are correct!

…no one needs religion to believe in God.

…Fellowship… well, that’s another species…

Cain and Abel did not have organized religion… they believed in God!

…not only did they believe but the felt Called to Fellowship… they both answered; each in his own individual way…

…at the end, though, there was something lacking…

Abel offered God, from his heart, the best of his possessions; while, Cain simply threw together some things and offered that.

Yahweh God was pleased with Abel’s offering. But He did not hold Cain’s in high regards…

Cain ended up murdering his brother.

Jesus, the Incarnate Word, Established His Church and Sent the Holy Spirit, the other Paraclete, to abide with and in the Church. Clearly, Jesus, being God, must have a better understanding of what Fellowship means. His Apostles understood this as they preached the Kingdom of God, Baptizing into the Body of Christ those who would be United to the Church: the Mystical Body of Christ.

Throughout the centuries many have attempted to change the course of God’s Salvific Plan by reformulating the means to God’s Fellowship–some have even embraced the fallacy of an invisible church where everyone can worship according to his/her preference (as Cain did). Cain’s fellowship was rejected by God.

As with Moses son’s, God will not accept an offering of strange fire–in this case, estranged fellowship!

Maran atha!

Angel
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Hi!

…I mistakenly cited Moses in my final example… I meant Aaron, Moses’ brother.

Sorry for the oversight!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
From the Catholic Encyclopedia.

Religion in its simplest form implies the notion of being bound to God; the same notion is upper-most in the word religion in its most specific sense, as applied to the life of poverty, chastity, and obedience, to which individuals voluntarily bind themselves by vows more or less solemn. Hence those who are thus bound are known as religious.

Religion, broadly speaking, means the voluntary subjection of oneself to God. It exists in its highest perfection in heaven, where the angels and saints love, praise, and adores God, and live in absolute conformity to His holy will. It does not exist at all in hell, where the subordination of rational creatures to their Creator is one not of free will, but of physical necessity. On earth it is practically coextensive with the human race, though, where it has not been elevated to the supernatural plane through Divine revelation, it labors under serious defects.

That being said. I do not think this is what he means by the word religion. From the rest of his speech he seems to be speaking of faith alone. I also think he is also using the word religion as a jab at “named” religious organization (Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc.). But he doesn’t want to say the word religious organization because he is one of those so called religious organizations. If he did I would be like, well then what the heck am I doing here, if I don’t need religion I’m outa here. Thus all of his donations would go right out the door. Now we can’t have that can we. That’s why he preaches the 10% tithe, which was an Old Testament obligation under the Law of Moses. Christians are not bound to the Mosaic 10%, but what we can afford.
1 Corinthians 16:2

On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that contributions need not be made when I come.

2 Corinthians 9:5-8

5 So I thought it necessary to urge the brethren to go on to you before me, and arrange in advance for this gift you have promised, so that it may be ready not as an exaction but as a willing gift.

6 The point is this: he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. 7 Each one must do as he has made up his mind, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to provide you with every blessing in abundance, so that you may always have enough of everything and may provide in abundance for every good work.
 
Your religion is just practical ways your faith affects your life. If your faith doesn’t affect how you live, your faith is dead. I think someone else said that once.
 
Do we we religion?

Although we seek to bring about the kingdom of God, within ourselves, the aim is to assist all to salvation. I do not exist nor would enter paradise alone; united in love, we do, as the body of Christ.
 
Nairovyg said:
m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154826235003796&id=5898823795&ref=m_notif&notif_t=like this a video from Life.Church where they claim we do not need religion.

What exactly is religion? Why would people claim you do not need religion? Do we need religion?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, that video excerpt is out of context. I found the full sermon on YouTube, and in context he is contrasting legalism with Christ, religiosity with Christianity. He refers to Matt 23 where Jesus calls legalism hypocrisy.

The speaker says he’s an ordained Methodist pastor. Don’t know anything about his church but his message here is a fairly standard “you do not need religion, you need Christianity”.
 
tafan said:
Yes, we can with our reason, come to believe in God without religion. After that, we will run out of steam pretty fast.

Now you have changed the topic from simply “religion” to “organized religion”. First of all, they were sacrificing to God, they certainly were practicing a religion. As to your contention that they had no organized religion, perhaps your historical knowledge is better than mine, I am limited to what Genesis has to say. You have another source on the life of Cain and Abel?
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Hi!

…I think that you’ve missed my point… on both counts.

The OP question is “religion;” that’s granted–however the underlined question (source of the query) is from a perspective against organized religion.

Since I believed that the query was stimulated by an anti-organized religion argument/philosophy… I introduced the term in order to fully engage it.

Cain and Abel didn’t organize a system and methods… they did not create doctrine and a credo… but their religion, as basic as it was, did begin to evolve… they made Sacrifice.

…though they were inspired to Sacrifice, something was lacking… Method was introduced by God: Cain decided to go on his own: ‘…here’s my offering, accept it!’

…well, we know what happened when God accepted Abel’s Sacrifice and rejected Cain’s…

…as to organized religion… the source is the same book you’ve read… did you know that it took a few days for Moses to put into effect what Yahweh God Commanded him to do (Altars, Ceremonial vestments, Utensils, Curtains, Veils, Ark, Cherubs, Tables, Regulations, Tents, the Ten Commandments…) and did you know that Cain and Abel did not have the slightest notion that these things would one day be instituted by God?

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Nairovyg said:
m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154826235003796&id=5898823795&ref=m_notif&notif_t=like this a video from Life.Church where they claim we do not need religion.

What exactly is religion? Why would people claim you do not need religion? Do we need religion?
Click to expand...
Depends on who you choose to believe. If you choose t believe Christ and follow him you need the Church. If you choose to believe Christ you follow his commands. And one of them says go to Church.

Anyone can believe in God without following him commands. Heck you put the Devil first on the list. He believes in God and rejects the religion of God.
 
Nairovyg said:
m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154826235003796&id=5898823795&ref=m_notif&notif_t=like this a video from Life.Church where they claim we do not need religion.

What exactly is religion? Why would people claim you do not need religion? Do we need religion?
Click to expand...
As far as the video goes, he just said the opposite of what Jesus says. You can follow him and his teachings. Jesus warns us about people like him in the bible, and tell us to stay away.

He more or less says you can have faith without works, which we all know where that goes. Faith without good works is fruitless.

And it is not Christ alone, it was never Christ alone. If it was Christ alone, he would have had no reason for creating us or putting us in this world, or judging us on the last day. IF it was Christ alone there would be no judgement day.

It is Christ and us together in this world. Christ dies for our sins so we could live in this world. We are put here so he could work through us to help one another and do his good works given to us by his good grace.

What would be the reason for his to give us his good graces, so we can believe in him? It makes no sense. Belief and faith are wonderful gifts from God, but like yeast, flour, water etc, that bread needs to be made. Although God could have bread fall from the sky he did not do it that way, We need works.

Also Cain and Able did not have organized religion you could say, because they did not have the gift of the word made flesh come down and give them the Church. We did, so we have no excuse.
 
Nairovyg said:
m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154826235003796&id=5898823795&ref=m_notif&notif_t=like this a video from Life.Church where they claim we do not need religion.

What exactly is religion? Why would people claim you do not need religion? Do we need religion?
Click to expand...
The trouble is when you say you don’t need religion, it indicates there is a failure to realize that it is by benefit of religion that we know of God and Jesus Christ at all. Without religion we wouldn’t have the bible, wouldn’t believe in it nor even have copies of it!

In the video the speaker quotes the bible, but without religion (the religion which he needs and uses even if he doesn’t acknowledge it) there would be no bible to quote from.

So it is nonsense to say we don’t need religion.
 
DaddyGirl said:
It’s more than a claim, it’s a reality.
There are many people who do believe a God, or one “creator”, exists or existed…but they don’t believe any specific religion is true, and they don’t need any religion.

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Hi!

…I feel you’re still confused…

In the greater context, those who, as you, do not need God (Who demands religion) do not have the same expectations of life as those who Believe… those who do not believe in God expect nothing at the end of their term: dust to dust… of course, they cannot expect anything more since their origin, at least in their mind, is casualty and, oh yeah, the Goldilocks effect.

…so yeah, it is your reality that dust will gain nothing but dust… yet, why are you so adamant about being absolutist when there’s no proof that God does not exist?

…however, if I am mistaken, and somehow you have proof that the Universe in deed came into existence out of nothing and that everything “evolved” guided by blind and haphazard nature… well, please, be my guest!

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Nairovyg said:
What exactly is religion? Why would people claim you do not need religion? Do we need religion?
Click to expand...
Religion is the system and the way which take us close to God. For salvation the faith is enough. But if you do not make faith more living and powerful with religion(worships) so faith may be lost.
 
jcrichton said:
Hi!

…they are correct!

…no one needs religion to believe in God.
Click to expand...
I read about a group in the “Oxford Handbook of Religious Diversity” that believes there is a God, but they also believe that nothing they do could ever positively or negatively impact that God and thus have no practices to appease or establish a relationship with that God. It almost sounds deistic, but unlike a deist they don’t have the belief that God has no interaction in this world. But they do see that God as having a disposition of indifference to humans. These people have a belief in God but have no religious practices based on that God belief.
 
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