Believing in the True Jesus - Christians vs Baha'is

[Servant19]

Well, I’m glad you are (finally!) acknowledging that there is indeed a divergence between what Bahauallah professed and what Christ professed.

Nope I never said that

There is no divergence. It’s just that Baha’u’llah gave us more, and you are not involved in that “more” which is a shame

And when I agree with what Bahauallah says, because it conforms to Christ’s Way, then you can congratulate Bahauallah for proclaiming truth.

There is sooo much more

But it is heartening to know you see that there is nonconformity between what Catholicism proclaims and what Bahauallah taught.

Not at all, you are not reading with precision and clarity dear PR



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[PRmerger]

So you are saying the path given to us by the Popes of the Crusades is true?

Can you please cite the document/teaching to which you are referring?

Remember your grave error in insisting that what Pope Benedict wrote was “magesterial teaching”, (sic) forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11559503&postcount=110

despite his very, very clear statement that his writing in Jesus of Nazareth was his personal opinion only?

"It goes without saying that this book in no way is an exercise of the magisterium but is solely an expression of my personal search “for the face of the Lord (Psalm 27:8)”

Remember, Servant?

So I am curious as to what you are construing as a “path given to us by Popes of the the Crusades.”

The path of the Westboro Church is founded on the Bible…you share more with this Church than the Baha’i Faith does…

If you can also cite the magisterial teaching that says that the Catholic Church professes that God hates homosexuals, that would be helpful.

Otherwise, you need to retract this statement.

It is for this very reason that Baha’u’llah came and was manifested on earth…

.

So clearly you see that this is nonsense:

You choose Yours
I choose Mine,
To each it is Divine!

Unless you want to include the WBC as another divine path.

 

[Servant19]

Can you please cite the document/teaching to which you are referring?

Remember your grave error in insisting that what Pope Benedict wrote was “magesterial teaching”, (sic) forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=11559503&postcount=110

despite his very, very clear statement that his writing in Jesus of Nazareth was his personal opinion only?

"It goes without saying that this book in no way is an exercise of the magisterium but is solely an expression of my personal search “for the face of the Lord (Psalm 27:8)”

Remember, Servant?

So I am curious as to what you are construing as a “path given to us by Popes of the the Crusades.”

If you can also cite the magisterial teaching that says that the Catholic Church professes that God hates homosexuals, that would be helpful.

Otherwise, you need to retract this statement.

So clearly you see that this is nonsense:

You choose Yours
I choose Mine,
To each it is Divine!

Unless you want to include the WBC as another divine path.

I don’t need to cite anything sister PR.

The WBC has all its teachings founded on the Bible, thats the source.

Pope Urban II and his Crusaders were all acting according to Biblical understanding. Was the Church not behind its Pope? Was the Church rebuking its Pope? Was the Church overthrowing its Pope?

The question is not show me the teachings promoting the actions of the Pope. The question is show me the documents that had the whole Church fighting “against” its Leader and Symbol of God on earth…

.

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[Sam]

Are all paths equal?

before you answer…

Jesus said Judge not that

PRmerger, true, no two paths are exactly equal. You’re exactly right. How about judging others, though? In your esteemed opinion, can we legitimately judge the spiritual worth of another soul? Keep in mind what Jesus said about this. He said “Judge not, that ye be not judged.”

To be fair, however,Jesus also told those who accused Him of breaking the Sabbath “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”

How do we reconcile these two seemingly opposing statements? How I understand this, is that Jesus didn’t like us to judge each other, but if we were going to do any judging, then we must apply a standard of fairness.

So let me ask you. Do you think it’s fair to say that Baha’is accept that Jesus Christ is a Prophet of God, Whom God sent to humanity to guide us? Even if we don’t fully agree with your interpretation of all parts of the Bible, yet we do love Christ in no less a way than we love Baha’u’llah. Would you say that’s a fair comment? In my very first post here, after I had introduced myself, I said exactly that (that we love Jesus in no less a way than we love Baha’u’llah).

You will of course also agree that “Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God.” 1 John 5:1

Baha’is do believe this without any reservation whatsoever. The Bab, Baha’u’llah, Abdu’l-Baha, Shoghi Effendi, the Universal House of Justice are one and all emphatic that Jesus is the Christ.

So we are one and all born of God.

It’s that simple.

I do appreciate your quandary in trying to make sense of what we say. I hope you will not be too harsh in…ummm…judging us.

 

[Techno2000]

Its a very simple “yes or no” answer Techno. Maybe you are avoiding the question. I could readily avoid questions by posting prayers for all to read.

Is Divinity a physical thing?

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divinity (dɪˈvɪnɪtɪ)
n, pl -ties

1. the nature of a deity or the state of being divine
2. a god or other divine being
3. (Theology) the divinity (often capital) another term for God
4. (Theology) another word for theology

 

[Sam]

divinity (dɪˈvɪnɪtɪ)
n, pl -ties

1. the nature of a deity or the state of being divine
2. a god or other divine being
3. (Theology) the divinity (often capital) another term for God
4. (Theology) another word for theology

Hi Techno, I just did a search on Divinity, and the very first definition I get on Google is this one:

divinity is the state of things that come from a supernatural power or deity, such as a god, or spirit beings, and are therefore regarded as …
‎Usages - ‎Entity - ‎See also - ‎Notes and references

Supernatural means non-physical, of course.

In John, we’re informed that “No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”

God is invisible because He’s a supernatural Being and therefore not physical.

Since God has created all things physical, if He Himself could assume a physical form, He would have created Himself, which of course is ludicrous.

 

[PRmerger]

PRmerger, true, no two paths are exactly equal.

And some are, in fact, FALSE paths, yes?

You’re exactly right. How about judging others, though? In your esteemed opinion, can we legitimately judge the spiritual worth of another soul? Keep in mind what Jesus said about this. He said “Judge not, that ye be not judged.”

We Catholics are absolutely forbidden from judging “the spiritual worth of another soul.”

To be fair, however,Jesus also told those who accused Him of breaking the Sabbath “Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.”

Amen!

And here we are *commanded *to judge, yes?

How do we reconcile these two seemingly opposing statements? How I understand this, is that Jesus didn’t like us to judge each other, but if we were going to do any judging, then we must apply a standard of fairness.

We judge and discern all day long. The only human person who doesn’t use her judgment is the human person who has her head in the sand.

So let me ask you. Do you think it’s fair to say that Baha’is accept that Jesus Christ is a Prophet of God, Whom God sent to humanity to guide us? Even if we don’t fully agree with your interpretation of all parts of the Bible, yet we do love Christ in no less a way than we love Baha’u’llah. Would you say that’s a fair comment? In my very first post here, after I had introduced myself, I said exactly that (that we love Jesus in no less a way than we love Baha’u’lla

Sure.

You will of course also agree that “Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God.” 1 John 5:1

…“and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.”

But even the demons believe, right, Sam?

So belief is clearly not enough.

Baha’is do believe this without any reservation whatsoever. The Bab, Baha’u’llah, Abdu’l-Baha, Shoghi Effendi, the Universal House of Justice are one and all emphatic that Jesus is the Christ.

Well, you and Mormons and Muslims all have great respect for Jesus. That’s to be commended.

So we are one and all born of God.

Amen!

I do appreciate your quandary in trying to make sense of what we say. I hope you will not be too harsh in…ummm…judging us.

I hope that you’re not judging right now, Sam. Surely not, eh?

 

[PRmerger]

The WBC has all its teachings founded on the Bible, thats the source.

That’s why Catholicism doesn’t get its teachings from the Bible, Servant. We do not distill our doctrines from a book, no matter how holy.

You ought to know that by now, after being here on the CAFs all this time.

Reading the Bible and gleaning a doctrine from it…leads to all sorts of weird and bizarre teachings.

As our Catechism proclaims (which you claim to have read, yes?): we are not a religion of the book.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c2a3.htm

 

[Servant19]

And some are, in fact, FALSE paths, yes?

We Catholics are absolutely forbidden from judging “the spiritual worth of another soul.”

Amen!

And here we are *commanded *to judge, yes?

We judge and discern all day long. The only human person who doesn’t use her judgment is the human person who has her head in the sand.

Sure.

…“and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.”

But even the demons believe, right, Sam?

So belief is clearly not enough.

Well, you and Mormons and Muslims all have great respect for Jesus. That’s to be commended.

Amen!

I hope that you’re not judging right now, Sam. Surely not, eh?

Phenomenal play on words PR.
A politician would be proud!!

Yes a demon believes, but does it believe Jesus is the Christ?

I’ll leave the rest for dear brother Sam to respond to

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[PRmerger]

Yes a demon believes, but does it believe Jesus is the Christ?

I wouldn’t expect you to be familiar with the Bible, Servant, but you are aware that what I said about demons believing is a quote from Scripture, yes?

 

[PRmerger]

Pope Urban II and his Crusaders were all acting according to Biblical understanding. Was the Church not behind its Pope? Was the Church rebuking its Pope? Was the Church overthrowing its Pope?

Still waiting for the magisterial teaching to which you are referring, Servant.

What was it that Pope Urban II proclaimed? In what document?

Please cite your source. Thanks.

And what Bible verse was he using? Book, chapter and verse, please. And, of course, the document that states he was using this particular verse.

Thanks.

 

[Techno2000]

Hi Techno, I just did a search on Divinity, and the very first definition I get on Google is this one:

divinity is the state of things that come from a supernatural power or deity, such as a god, or spirit beings, and are therefore regarded as …
‎Usages - ‎Entity - ‎See also - ‎Notes and references

Supernatural means non-physical, of course.

In John, we’re informed that “No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”

God is invisible because He’s a supernatural Being and therefore not physical.

Since God has created all things physical, if He Himself could assume a physical form, He would have created Himself, which of course is ludicrous.

God can do anything he wants to.

 

[Techno2000]

Hi Techno, I just did a search on Divinity, and the very first definition I get on Google is this one:

divinity is the state of things that come from a supernatural power or deity, such as a god, or spirit beings, and are therefore regarded as …
‎Usages - ‎Entity - ‎See also - ‎Notes and references

Supernatural means non-physical, of course.

In John, we’re informed that “No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”

God is invisible because He’s a supernatural Being and therefore not physical.

Since God has created all things physical, if He Himself could assume a physical form, He would have created Himself, which of course is ludicrous.

I think what you trying to say, is that it’s ludicrous to believe that Jesus Christ is God.

 

[Servant19]

I wouldn’t expect you to be familiar with the Bible, Servant, but you are aware that what I said about demons believing is a quote from Scripture, yes?

Haha very good PR. Yes I was reading James 2 only recently.

You know that you have dodged Sams point.

Yes a demon believes, but does a demon believe Jesus is Christ?

I leave you to your next “political studies” response

.

 

[Servant19]

That’s why Catholicism doesn’t get its teachings from the Bible, Servant. We do not distill our doctrines from a book, no matter how holy.

You ought to know that by now, after being here on the CAFs all this time.

Reading the Bible and gleaning a doctrine from it…leads to all sorts of weird and bizarre teachings.

As our Catechism proclaims (which you claim to have read, yes?): we are not a religion of the book.

scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c2a3.htm

Yes I’m a reader of the Catechism, and yes I know that the teaching preceded the Canon, but the Canon is not the Letters or the Gospels.

I cannot understand how anything of importance existed before the Letters of Paul and Peter for example. These may have been canonised much later but they existed before canonisation.

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[Servant19]

Still waiting for the magisterial teaching to which you are referring, Servant.

What was it that Pope Urban II proclaimed? In what document?

Please cite your source. Thanks.

And what Bible verse was he using? Book, chapter and verse, please. And, of course, the document that states he was using this particular verse.

Thanks.

I’m not going to engage in writing posts criticising the Catholic Church dear PR.

If you look through the last 3000+ posts I have made, you will see only 1 or 2 times (if that) where I may have talked about the tests the Catholic Church has had to endure in its history.

As I have repeated. I love the spirit of the teachings of Catholicism.

The point I am trying to make here, which I hope you will sympathise with is that the WBC is acting in accordance with what it thinks is right, as were the thousands and thousands of Catholics during the Crusades.

What is critical is that the heads of neither Church condemned such actions.

Do you have any Church documents that condemned the Crusades at the time they were happening?

The WBC do not have a Catechism like the Catholic Church, they have a few teachings similar to Papal Bulls I suppose, all based off their own understanding of the Revelation of Jesus. We can certainly find problematic Papal Bulls as we can problematic teachings of WBC.



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[Michael1978]

I’m not going to engage in writing posts criticising the Catholic Church dear PR.

If you look through the last 3000+ posts I have made, you will see only 1 or 2 times (if that) where I may have talked about the tests the Catholic Church has had to endure in its history.

As I have repeated. I love the spirit of the teachings of Catholicism.

The point I am trying to make here, which I hope you will sympathise with is that the WBC is acting in accordance with what it thinks is right, as were the thousands and thousands of Catholics during the Crusades.

What is critical is that the heads of neither Church condemned such actions.

Do you have any Church documents that condemned the Crusades at the time they were happening?



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Ah, the old Crusades canard. For your enjoyment:

catholic.com/blog/steve-weidenkopf/why-the-crusades-were-glorious

catholic.com/blog/steve-weidenkopf/conquest-desecration-and-phony-history

staycatholic.com/the_crusades.htm

crisismagazine.com/2012/crash-course-on-the-crusades

By the way, you continue to claim you love the Catholic Church and that the Church teaches truth yet you then dismiss the Church’s teachings and claim the Church is wrong. Now you’re comparing the Church to the WBC? Good grief. Why won’t you just be honest about your beliefs? The Church teaches that there is no further revelation after Jesus. You claim that there is. That makes you a heretic in the eyes of the Church.

 

[Servant19]

Ah, the old Crusades canard. For your enjoyment:

catholic.com/blog/steve-weidenkopf/why-the-crusades-were-glorious

catholic.com/blog/steve-weidenkopf/conquest-desecration-and-phony-history

staycatholic.com/the_crusades.htm

crisismagazine.com/2012/crash-course-on-the-crusades

By the way, you continue to claim you love the Catholic Church and that the Church teaches truth yet you then dismiss the Church’s teachings and claim the Church is wrong. Now you’re comparing the Church to the WBC? Good grief. Why won’t you just be honest about your beliefs? The Church teaches that there is no further revelation after Jesus. You claim that there is. That makes you a heretic in the eyes of the Church.

Hi Michael

Let me clarify:

As I have repeated. I love the spirit of the teachings of Catholicism.

.

…and please, I regret bringing up the Crusades. I am the first to acknowledge that the teachings are what matter and not the fallibility of its adherents…and it’s the fruits of the teachings that is most CRITICAL

So can you please point out what fruits of the Bahais you have seen that are “demonic”?



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[eddie_too]

same-o, same-o, just like the Mormons the bahai tell us that the Truths Jesus revealed to the apostles were distorted and confused. these truths became unknown over the passage of the centuries. that is what the bahai teach.

they tell us that religious truth is relative. by this they mean that no single religion possesses the Truth. all religions possess some truth, but since no one religion possesses the TRUTH mankind is left without the truth because there is NO ONE to define the TRUTH.

if all religious truth is relative, why in the world would following Bahaullah or the Bab or mohammed or joseph smith or Jesus Christ make any difference. according to the bahai, none of them possess the fullness of the truth. all truth is relative and evolvling.

It is almost amusing when the bahai proclaim they love the RCC out of one side of their mouths and then out of the other side of their mouths the bahai proclaim that the teachings of the RCC are in error because Jesus could not ensure that the Truth He gave to His apostles would remain full and complete until the end of this world.

saying all religious truth is relative is essentially the same as saying there are no religious truths.

and, indeed, the bahai come across as saying there is no true religion and the only thing God wants you to believe is that all men should be one.

of course, Jesus taught this to His apostles. that is where Bahaullah found it.

unlike Bahaullah, Jesus created ways for all men to become one. He gave them the Gospel and the seven sacraments as well as apostolic succession. these are all tools, mechanisms, graces, designed and provided by Christ to create His ONE MYSTICAL BODY, the RCC.

 

[Techno2000]

A True Letter Of Our Savior Jesus Christ

Consecrating the Drops of Blood which Our Lord Jesus lost on His way to Calvary.

Copy of a letter of the Oration found in the Holy Sepulchre of Our Lord Jesus Christ in Jerusalem, preserved in a silver box by His Holiness and by the Emporers and Empresses of the Christian Faith.

St. Elizabeth, Queen of Hungary, with St. Matilda and St. Bridget, wishing to know something of the Passion of Jesus Christ, offered fervent and special prayers, upon which there appeared to them Our Lord Jesus Christ who spoke to them in the following manner:

I descended from Heaven to the Earth in order to convert you.

In olden times, people were religious, and their harvests were abundant; at present, on the contrary, they are scanty.

If you want to reap an abundant harvest you must not work on Sunday, for Sunday you must go to Church and pray to God to forgive your sins. He gave you six days in which to work and one for rest and devotion and to tender your help to the poor and assist the Church.

Those people who brawl against My Religion and cast slurs on this Sacred Letter will be forsaken by Me.

On the contrary, those people who shall carry a copy of this letter with them shall be free from death by drowning and from sudden death. They shall be free from all contagious diseases and lightning; they shall not die without confession, and shall be free from their enemies and from the hand of wrongful authority, and from all their slanderers and false witnesses.

Women in peril at child-birth will, by keeping this Oration about them, immediately overcome the difficulty. In the houses where this Oration is kept, no evil thing will ever happen: and forty days before the death of a person who has this Oration about him or her, the Blessed Virgin will appear to him or her. So said St. Gregorious.

To all those faithful who shall recite for three years, each day, 2 Paters, Glorias, and Aves, in honor of the drops of blood I lost, I will concede the following five graces:

1st The plenary indulgence and remission of your sins.
2nd You will be free from the pains of Purgatory.
3rd If you should die before completing the said 3 years, for you it will be the same as if you had completed them.
4th It will be upon your death the same as if you had shed all your blood for the Holy Faith.
5th I will descend from Heaven to take your soul and that of your relatives, until the fourth generation.

Be it known that the number of armed soldiers were 150; those who trailed me while I was bound were 23. The number of executioners of justice were 83; the blows received on my head were 150; those on my stomach, 108; kicks on my shoulders, 80. I was led, bound with cords by the hair, 24 times; spits in the face were 180; I was beaten on the body 6666 times; beaten on the head, 110 times. I was roughly pushed, and at 12 o’clock was lifted up by the hair; pricked with thorns and pulled by the beard 23 times; received 20 wounds on the head; thorns of marine junks, 72; pricks of thorns in the head, 110; mortal thorns in the forhead, 3. I was afterwards flogged and dressed as a mocked king; wounds in the body, 1000. The soldiers who led me to the Calvary were 608; those who watched me were 3, and those who mocked me were 1008; the drops of blood which I lost were 28,430.

Benedetta DA S.S.; Pope Leo XIII, in Roma 5 Aprile 1890
brizek.com/prayer/pieta.htm