Bells ringing during the Consecration - OF Mass

[anp1215]

C’mon – that for a set (a dozen or more) of tuned handbells. They’re musical instruments. Quite different from sanctus bells.

I didn’t know…I never saw the person ringing the sanctus bells. The thread just made me wonder if they used the same bells for both. I don’t know a lot about musical instruments.

 

[anp1215]

There is definitely an art to making them sound rich. Did you just say $9K? For hand bells?

Do you realize how many diapers we can buy with $9K?

Correct me if I’m wrong; but I sense a bite in your post, which is not necessary. I started by saying that there was not a consistent norm on the use of the bells. I then went on to explain that the difference in usage was due to religious orders, customs, countries and resources.

Finally, I also said that those parishes that can afford them, can have them, unless there is a regulatioin why they cannot. To the best of my knowledge, I know of only one religious community that would not use them, because they view this as an unnecessary expense . . . but I don’t think they run any parishes. If you attend mass at a conventual chapel, you might not find them for the same reason.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I know. I couldn’t believe it! But I am pretty sure that’s what they said. I will ask again.

 

[SmokeRing]

They are no more expensive in a church supply catalog than a nice candlestick. You can find a typical set of four altar bells in lower-priced catalogs like Autom or Almy’s for around $70. Cheaper sets run around $35, but have thinner-walled bells are are quieter. You can also purchase something called shaft bells or harness bells at places which sell horse tack. They are the exact same cup bells with three clappers, but mounted to a straight metal bar instead of a fancy handle, and those average about $40.

In my diocese, I don’t know of any parish which does NOT use altar bells. In fact, many parishes here have two sets, one on either side of the altar.

I truly enjoyed reading your post. While Almy certainly doesn’t sell sanctus bell sets for $70.00 (I suspect Autom does though) your comments about shaft/harness bells is extremely important. I took a quick look and found a set for $60 –

mydrafthorse.com/cfwebstore/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=305

That’s far less (about 1/5 the price) of a good set of sanctus bells (not the wooden handled Autom models.) I suspect they can be purchased for even less as you suggest if one shopped. I have never heard of these bells taking the place of sanctus bells but it is a terrific idea. I wonder if anyone knows a wholesaler or importer for just the bells?

 

[JReducation]

The use of sanctus bells is defined in the GIRM.

I suspect just about any parish, even parishes in poor African countries and other impoverished places in this world could obtain a set of sanctus bells if that was something important to them.

I think that we have to be very gentle with our brothers and sisters in poorer countries. Having lived among them, I can tell you that bells are not a priority when you lack many basic things such as clean water, medicines, good nutrition and in some places, even the freedom to worship openly.

The resources of the missionaries are very limited and their attention is directed to evangelization, sacramental preparation, the teaching of the spiritual life and service to the poorest of the poor.

We made do with whatever they could send us from the US and Europe. Even then, we would have to parcel out the resources. St. Francis would have been ashamed of us if we had spent money on bells that was needed to buy seeds to plant food. As I said, remember, we’re the sons of the man who sold the missal to buy food for the poor. After doing so, the one friar priest in the house was unable to celebrate mass for the other friars. They walked several miles to go to mass until someone gave them another missal.

The Seraphic Father’s example was that for mass everything should be beautiful, clean, but simple to the point of austerity. If you had to give up these things for the sake of poverty and the poor, then you did not celebrate the mass, because it was irreverent to do so without that which made it appropriate for the Lord. In that case, you would go to mass in another place where they had what was needed. In other words, you didn’t skip the mass either.

Over the centuries, as more priests joined us, we have tried to preserve this balance between the beauty of the mass and the love of poverty and the poor. The beauty of the mass does not suffer if you don’t have something such as bells. In many of our mission stations, they are very fortunate, because parishes from the Northern Hemisphere will often send them many things that they have in surplus. Some mission stations have more than others.

The circumstances are different from place to place. We must be very gentle in our thoughts and attitudes toward those Catholics who live in situations that are not as wealthy as our nations. And we must become familiar with their situation and see it from their perspective.

The Seraphic Father always said that our love for the Eucharist must include our love for the poor, for in the Eucharist, God presents himself to us in the poorest form of all. That’s why, even in some of our houses in the USA, you will not see many things that you may find in a parish. However, those who attend mass at our houses understand the reason. We approach Christ in the Eucharist as poor men and we unite our poverty to Christ’s poverty at Calvary.

The secret is found in balance, love, and detachment.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Corki]

Bell ringing was a lot more important during the Latin mass, to alert the faithful to the consecration.

Some places apparently still have it today with vernacular masses, but it really doesn’t have the utility it did back in the day, as the faithful now follow the mass verbally rather than non-verbally.

Actually, if it is hearing, the reverse is true. When the Mass is in Latin, everyone knows the consecration. When the Mass is in the vernacular, unless it is your own tongue, it is easy to get lost.

However, as has been pointed out already, that’s not the main reason to ring the bells. We use them at all of our Masses. Even at daily Masses where there are no altar servers, someone in the congregation is given the bells to ring.

There is definitely an art to making them sound rich. Did you just say $9K? For hand bells?

Do you realize how many diapers we can buy with $9K?

I believe that is a set of bells that are played, usually as an instrumental alternate to a sung hymn. The set may have bells for a dozen people to play. This is not the same kind of bells that are rung at the consecration. Although, if a parish had hand bells as a musical instrument, there’s no reason one of the bell ringers couldn’t do double duty and ring his/her bell at the consecration too.

 

[anp1215]

I’ve never been to a Mass where the bells weren’t rung…I thought they were used at every Mass.

Interesting, learn something new every day I suppose.

Funniest thing. I say that and tonight went to a Mass where they weren’t used.

 

[corsair]

I can’t remember when I was in a church, during Mass, when the Sanctus bells were not used at the consecration. That includes both OF and EF parishes. I know there are a few churches out there that don’t use them but I have never been to one. (and don’t care to)

God Bless

 

[DKIN]

They do this at the Parish I attend as well. I like it

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

I truly enjoyed reading your post. While Almy certainly doesn’t sell sanctus bell sets for $70.00 (I suspect Autom does though) your comments about shaft/harness bells is extremely important. I took a quick look and found a set for $60 –

mydrafthorse.com/cfwebstore/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_id=305

That’s far less (about 1/5 the price) of a good set of sanctus bells (not the wooden handled Autom models.) I suspect they can be purchased for even less as you suggest if one shopped. I have never heard of these bells taking the place of sanctus bells but it is a terrific idea. I wonder if anyone knows a wholesaler or importer for just the bells?

Those wooden-handled bells come from India and are rather cheap, plus each of the bells rings about the same note so they don’t have much of a musical quality. Older American bells were usually tuned to a major chord, but the newer ones are often quite dissonant.

The last set of shaft bells I bought was for $25 plus shipping. It has four cup bells of the same dimensions and sound quality as the expensive ones, but without the fancy handle. You could mount a drawer pull to the shaft and use them as they are, or remove the bells and attach them to a metal ring with a handle on it. I have made three sets of sanctuary bells from shaft bells by simply suspending them from a plant hanger bracket by a couple of hooks. Sanctuary bells average about $600 and their sole purpose is to signal the beginning of Mass.

 

[JReducation]

Those wooden-handled bells come from India and are rather cheap, plus each of the bells rings about the same note so they don’t have much of a musical quality. Older American bells were usually tuned to a major chord, but the newer ones are often quite dissonant.

The last set of shaft bells I bought was for $25 plus shipping. It has four cup bells of the same dimensions and sound quality as the expensive ones, but without the fancy handle. You could mount a drawer pull to the shaft and use them as they are, or remove the bells and attach them to a metal ring with a handle on it. I have made three sets of sanctuary bells from shaft bells by simply suspending them from a plant hanger bracket by a couple of hooks. **Sanctuary bells average about $600 **and their sole purpose is to signal the beginning of Mass.

Good gravy. I’d rather go to Lowes or Home Depot and by a regular door bell for $30. The only purpose of a santuary bell is to get the congregation’s attention to the beginning of mass.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[SmokeRing]

I think that we have to be very gentle with our brothers and sisters in poorer countries. Having lived among them, I can tell you that bells are not a priority when you lack many basic things such as clean water, medicines, good nutrition and in some places, even the freedom to worship openly.

I’m sorry but I disagree with you and believe you are raising a red herring. If any Catholic priest, parish or other community in this world determines that a sanctus bell(s) is important to their celebration of the Mass then I think they would be able to obtain one or more and not at the cost of clean water, medicines, good nutrition and in some places, even the freedom to worship openly. Not because they are willing to sacrifice the other things you mention but because a suitable bell could purchased for $4.30-6.60 (probably much less if one shopped) and that is within the purchasing range of any priest, parish or other community in this world. smuckersharness.com/pg54.html

FWIW Francis himself owned at least one bell for their believed apotropaic powers. I remember reading another thread about used liturgical hardware being sold on eBay. Some people mentioned that the missions will only take so much used equipment. I’m not sure if that’s true but it sure runs contrary to your comments.

I would hate for people to think that the cost of a bell is a barrier when considering sanctus bell(s) based on your comments. The cost is not a barrier for a basic bell that will more than do the job.

The resources of the missionaries are very limited and their attention is directed to evangelization, sacramental preparation, the teaching of the spiritual life and service to the poorest of the poor.

We made do with whatever they could send us from the US and Europe. Even then, we would have to parcel out the resources. St. Francis would have been ashamed of us if we had spent money on bells that was needed to buy seeds to plant food. As I said, remember, we’re the sons of the man who sold the missal to buy food for the poor. After doing so, the one friar priest in the house was unable to celebrate mass for the other friars. They walked several miles to go to mass until someone gave them another missal.

The Seraphic Father’s example was that for mass everything should be beautiful, clean, but simple to the point of austerity. If you had to give up these things for the sake of poverty and the poor, then you did not celebrate the mass, because it was irreverent to do so without that which made it appropriate for the Lord. In that case, you would go to mass in another place where they had what was needed. In other words, you didn’t skip the mass either.

Over the centuries, as more priests joined us, we have tried to preserve this balance between the beauty of the mass and the love of poverty and the poor. The beauty of the mass does not suffer if you don’t have something such as bells. In many of our mission stations, they are very fortunate, because parishes from the Northern Hemisphere will often send them many things that they have in surplus. Some mission stations have more than others.

Some would suggest the beauty of the celebration of the Mass does indeed suffer without bells. I remember vividly a Franciscan brother MCing a Mass at a Marian conference. There were no sanctus bells so he pulled a small bell out of his habit at the correct times and rang it himself. It was beautiful. The bell couldn’t have cost more than $2-3.00 Here in California when the Franciscans built the chain of missions in often destitute settings, bells were still given a priority. They are important.

The circumstances are different from place to place. We must be very gentle in our thoughts and attitudes toward those Catholics who live in situations that are not as wealthy as our nations. And we must become familiar with their situation and see it from their perspective.

The Seraphic Father always said that our love for the Eucharist must include our love for the poor, for in the Eucharist, God presents himself to us in the poorest form of all. That’s why, even in some of our houses in the USA, you will not see many things that you may find in a parish. However, those who attend mass at our houses understand the reason. We approach Christ in the Eucharist as poor men and we unite our poverty to Christ’s poverty at Calvary.

The secret is found in balance, love, and detachment.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[choliks]

In our part of the world, almost all churches ring sanctuary bells during the epiclesis and consecration. From the elaborate 3-piece brass bells for parishes that can afford them, to the simpler handheld bells (similar but smaller to the ones held by the corner santa clauses seen north american culture). The only time that a church or chapel doesn’t have a bell is when it’s busted and the parishioners couldn’t afford to replace it due to poverty and isolation.

During the Easter Triduum, all sanctuary bells are silenced and replaced by clappers made from any wooden material (ply boards, bamboo, etc.) which is most of the the time home-made. And it’s very distinct when they use the clappers throughout the procession of the Blessed Sacrament to the altar of repose, after the mass. It’s worth noting that during the procession, the whole congregation kneels down and bow their heads. It’s a sight to behold. The sanctuary bells are heard again during the Easter Vigil.

There are times, however, when bells are not used, especially during private Masses. During our retreats, we gather in a small chapel for a Mass. Since no one is assigned to assist the priest, the bells are not used.

 

[JReducation]

I’m sorry but I disagree with you and believe you are raising a red herring. If any Catholic priest, parish or other community in this world determines that a sanctus bell(s) is important to their celebration of the Mass then I think they would be able to obtain one or more and not at the cost of clean water, medicines, good nutrition and in some places, even the freedom to worship openly. Not because they are willing to sacrifice the other things you mention but because a suitable bell could purchased for $4.30-6.60 (probably much less if one shopped) and that is within the purchasing range of any priest, parish or other community in this world. smuckersharness.com/pg54.html

You’d be surprised.

FWIW Francis himself owned at least one bell for their believed apotropaic powers.

Where did you read that?

I remember reading another thread about used liturgical hardware being sold on eBay. Some people mentioned that the missions will only take so much used equipment. I’m not sure if that’s true but it sure runs contrary to your comments.

The used equipment that we get for our missions doesn’t come from eBay, but from parishes that donate them.

It is in some places.

Some would suggest the beauty of the celebration of the Mass does indeed suffer without bells. I remember vividly a Franciscan brother MCing a Mass at a Marian conference. There were no sanctus bells so he pulled a small bell out of his habit at the correct times and rang it himself. It was beautiful. The bell couldn’t have cost more than $2-3.00 Here in California when the Franciscans built the chain of missions in often destitute settings, bells were still given a priority. They are important.

No one said that the friars cannot use a bell in a setting where it is provided by some source such as a donation or in a parish that has the money to buy them.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[SmokeRing]

You’d be surprised.

Where did you read that?

The used equipment that we get for our missions doesn’t come from eBay, but from parishes that donate them.

I would hate for people to think that the cost of a bell is a barrier when considering sanctus bell(s) based on your comments. The cost is not a barrier for a basic bell that will more than do the job.

It is in some places.

No one said that the friars cannot use a bell in a setting where it is provided by some source such as a donation or in a parish that has the money to buy them.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

I stand by my comment. Any Catholic priest, parish or other group in the world can obtain a sanctus bell(s) without sacrificing the things you mentioned at least from an economical standpoint. You’re simply wrong to suggest the $4-6 (or possibly less) is a barrier that will keep Catholic groups from owning a bell. I’m not suggesting the $4-6.00 is a trivial expense to some. Only that they would be able to save and buy a bell at that price.

 

[FAB]

I went to a special Mass Friday that was to anticipate the Feast of St Therese, and just after the Host was raised, the bells were rung by an altar boy. Same after the Chalice was raised. This was at an Ordinary Form Mass. I thought it was a beautiful thing to experience.

Has anyone experienced this? Would you like to have that custom restored to the Ordinary Form Mass, yes or no, and why?

We use the bells outside of ordinary time to make a distinction. We will ring bells again in Advent and Christmas.

 

[Corki]

We use the bells outside of ordinary time to make a distinction. We will ring bells again in Advent and Christmas.

That’s cool. I have heard of parishes that put away the bells in Advent and Lent (our parish doesn’t ring the bells during Lent) but never one that brought them **out **for Advent.

 

[JReducation]

I stand by my comment. Any Catholic priest, parish or other group in the world can obtain a sanctus bell(s) without sacrificing the things you mentioned at least from an economical standpoint. You’re simply wrong to suggest the $4-6 (or possibly less) is a barrier that will keep Catholic groups from owning a bell. I’m not suggesting the $4-6.00 is a trivial expense to some. Only that they would be able to save and buy a bell at that price.

Why are you putting such a bite on your post?

If you had read much of what I posted, you would have noted that we’re Franciscans and that we have a different set of priorities. When these things are possible and doable, we gladly do them. When we believe that they are in conflict with poverty and that they would meet with disapproval from our Holy Father, we don’t do them.

I gave the best example in the world. Our Holy Father sold the missal, not once, but several times, to raise money to feed the poor. At one point, he actually gave a poor woman the missal and told her to sell it and keep the money.

We don’t operate out of the same point of view as you are operating. However, our point of view is as valuable as your own. It has been around for 800 years and is observed by 1.7 million men and women today in 114 countries. It has made significant contributions to the life of faith of the Church.

The issues, for us, are bigger than the bells. If the bells are present, that’s fine. If they are not, that’s fine too. As you said, the one friar happened to have a bell in his pocket. He had access to one. It makes sense that he would use it. Were I his superior I would have wondered why he didn’t use it, knowing that it was available. However, I’ve also been superior where it’s not available and I don’t worry about it. I worry about the reverence of the mass, the needs of the friars, the needs of the local poeople and I have appreciated whatever gifts people have sent us, even a $6 bell, if they happen to put on into a box.

Just so you know, there were times when we did not have $6 to eat. This is why I say that today’s Catholic needs to become familiar with the Church around the world and there is no reason not to do sin, because we have internet and other means that are inexpensive or free. As we become aware of their situtions, their customs, their prioritie, we tend to become more gentle and less dogmatic about things that were never dogmatic.

As Francis said, “At the end of our lives we shall be judged on how much we loved poverty.”

By the way, tonight begins the Solemnity of the Seraphic Father. Please pray for Franciscans around the world.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[anp1215]

Why are you putting such a bite on your post?

If you had read much of what I posted, you would have noted that we’re Franciscans and that we have a different set of priorities. When these things are possible and doable, we gladly do them. When we believe that they are in conflict with poverty and that they would meet with disapproval from our Holy Father, we don’t do them.

I gave the best example in the world. Our Holy Father sold the missal, not once, but several times, to raise money to feed the poor. At one point, he actually gave a poor woman the missal and told her to sell it and keep the money.

We don’t operate out of the same point of view as you are operating. However, our point of view is as valuable as your own. It has been around for 800 years and is observed by 1.7 million men and women today in 114 countries. It has made significant contributions to the life of faith of the Church.

The issues, for us, are bigger than the bells. If the bells are present, that’s fine. If they are not, that’s fine too. As you said, the one friar happened to have a bell in his pocket. He had access to one. It makes sense that he would use it. Were I his superior I would have wondered why he didn’t use it, knowing that it was available. However, I’ve also been superior where it’s not available and I don’t worry about it. I worry about the reverence of the mass, the needs of the friars, the needs of the local poeople and I have appreciated whatever gifts people have sent us, even a $6 bell, if they happen to put on into a box.

Just so you know, there were times when we did not have $6 to eat. This is why I say that today’s Catholic needs to become familiar with the Church around the world and there is no reason not to do sin, because we have internet and other means that are inexpensive or free. As we become aware of their situtions, their customs, their prioritie, we tend to become more gentle and less dogmatic about things that were never dogmatic.

As Francis said, “At the end of our lives we shall be judged on how much we loved poverty.”

By the way, tonight begins the Solemnity of the Seraphic Father. Please pray for Franciscans around the world.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Excellent post. I really enjoy reading your posts. Thank you for all that you do and sacrifice!

 

[vontroster]

At my parish they ring bells, blast a cannon at the nearest prot denomination, and have a mariachi band strum a few chords.

 

[FatHead]

At my parish they ring bells, blast a cannon at the nearest prot denomination, and have a mariachi band strum a few chords.

how sad