Bells!

[chotock]

Lucky dog having bells! The pastor at my parish suggested bringing back the bells and was shut down by the parish liturgy committee because they were “going back” to a pre-Vatican II. God save us from liturgy committees that work off of feelings rather than sound liturgical theology and knowledge of rubrics. I also think that the bells enhance the congregation’s awareness of the Real Presence in the sacrifice of the Mass. I think many in the Church are lacking that nowadays.

Well, now matter what they may think, a liturgy committee has no real authority in a parish. In essence they are really only supposed to be helping the rector out by educating, training and the like. The rector/pastor is the real authority on how the parish will celebrate the Liturgy, in accordance to the GIRM and the local Ordinary of course.

Parish commitees on liturgy seem to me to be another example where folks believe the Church to be some sort of democracy. WHile I would hope the Magesterium would listen to the concerns of the faithful, I am praying they do not feel that they are somehow beholden to whatever “fashion and whimsies” are currently in vogue. What sort of message do we send when those Ordained are over-ruled by the laity? Is this not the type of set-up our seperated protestant brethern have instituted amongst themselves?

I know when I came to the Church I was looking for Authority, not capitulation.

 

[Lucania]

Our parish rings the bells at the consecration, too, and we love it. It just adds a touch of reverence to the moment that is most appropriate,IMO./quote]

As does my parish and I totally agree with you!

 

[lak611]

If only the majority of parishes had a good tower bell. Many in London have none at all, being more like warehouses than Houses of God, or they do not work. Sad to say.

That is unfortunate. I thought that the churches in the USA were the ones that were built like that. I was under the impression that Europe had better taste than we do here.

 

[AngelicDoctor]

Well, now matter what they may think, a liturgy committee has no real authority in a parish. In essence they are really only supposed to be helping the rector out by educating, training and the like. The rector/pastor is the real authority on how the parish will celebrate the Liturgy, in accordance to the GIRM and the local Ordinary of course.

Parish commitees on liturgy seem to me to be another example where folks believe the Church to be some sort of democracy. WHile I would hope the Magesterium would listen to the concerns of the faithful, I am praying they do not feel that they are somehow beholden to whatever “fashion and whimsies” are currently in vogue.

Chotock,
I concur. Liturgy committees are, for the most part, a waste of time in my opinion. I say this because they have virtually no knowledge of liturgical theology and rubrics (how many have read the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, Sacrosanctum Concillium, etc.?). Our pastor is new so he is trying to be, perhaps, too conciliatory. He is, however, going to have them start studying the liturgical documents soon.

 

[anamchara]

If only the majority of parishes had a good tower bell. Many in London have none at all, being more like warehouses than Houses of God, or they do not work. Sad to say.

We have a tower bell, it’s very lovely. I haven’t heard it ring though in a while, I’ll have to ask the Father. It might be broke or he just doesn’t have anyone ringing it. More than likely he just doesn’t have anyone. If that’s the case then I’ll ring it!

 

[anamchara]

Lucky dog having bells! The pastor at my parish suggested bringing back the bells and was shut down by the parish liturgy committee because they were “going back” to a pre-Vatican II. God save us from liturgy committees that work off of feelings rather than sound liturgical theology and knowledge of rubrics. I also think that the bells enhance the congregation’s awareness of the Real Presence in the sacrifice of the Mass. I think many in the Church are lacking that nowadays.

I am surprised he lets the liturgy committee make final decisions. And I fully agree with you, it does enhance awareness! I would encourage the pastor and maybe get a few others to approach him on the subject. Maybe he needs more support from others who wants the bells in order to go forward and let this committee know he is going to do it with or without thier support. Is it possible he is using this as an excuse? And it’s really him that doesn’t want it? You know your pastor better then me.

 

[Titus]

That is unfortunate. I thought that the churches in the USA were the ones that were built like that. I was under the impression that Europe had better taste than we do here.

In the rest of Europe they tend to. But here in the UK, the Church was stripped of all its churches after the founding of the Church of England in the 16th Century, and so has had to build new ones from scratch, often in the 1970s- a dark time for ecclesiastical architecture.

 

[LilyM]

We have a tower bell, it’s very lovely. I haven’t heard it ring though in a while, I’ll have to ask the Father. It might be broke or he just doesn’t have anyone ringing it. More than likely he just doesn’t have anyone. If that’s the case then I’ll ring it!

Actually I should see if there’s any bell-ringers at my church too. I have fond memories of occasionally getting to ring the Angelus bell at school - it’s loads of fun.

 

[AngelicDoctor]

I am surprised he lets the liturgy committee make final decisions. … Is it possible he is using this as an excuse? And it’s really him that doesn’t want it? You know your pastor better then me.

No, it was his idea to bring back the bells,… he suggested it to the liturgical committee. However, two things are at work: first, he has only been pastor for a year and he is the pastor of a cluster of four parishes (rural Iowa)… so, I guess he is being ultra careful to not step on people’s toes and seem to demanding of his own way. People already resent the fact that they are part of a cluster and no longer have a resident priest… they cling ever more tightly to their old parish traditions (in this case… NO BELLS!). So, in short,… my pastor would like the bells, but he is very laid back and I don’t think he wants them so bad that he feels like insisting or fighting for them (he will fight for things when he really wants to). I told him to tell the committee that it gives the servers something more to do. Maybe I will try to get on the liturgy committee and stir things up… infiltrate the twisted system from the inside!

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

Lucky dog having bells! The pastor at my parish suggested bringing back the bells and was shut down by the parish liturgy committee because they were “going back” to a pre-Vatican II. God save us from liturgy committees that work off of feelings rather than sound liturgical theology and knowledge of rubrics. I also think that the bells enhance the congregation’s awareness of the Real Presence in the sacrifice of the Mass. I think many in the Church are lacking that nowadays.

And God save us from pastors who cow to liturgy committees. If I should inherit a liturgy committee someday, they will be strictly an advisory council, should I retain them at all.

 

[lak611]

In the rest of Europe they tend to. But here in the UK, the Church was stripped of all its churches after the founding of the Church of England in the 16th Century, and so has had to build new ones from scratch, often in the 1970s- a dark time for ecclesiastical architecture.

Do you know when the Catholic Church was officially allowed to return in the UK? I am aware that not only Catholics but also Protestants not belonging to the Church of England were not tolerated after the Church of England first started; for instance the Puritans had to come over to Massachusetts (hence Thanksgiving Day in the USA). When were Catholics and “Non-conformists” officially given freedom to worship in the UK?

 

[Chatter163]

Catholicism was legally permitted to return to England in 1829, with the passage of the Catholic Emancipation Act, though there were numerous events over several generations that led up to this formal legislation. The Church responded by re-establishing the Catholic hierarchy in England in 1850.

 

[AngelicDoctor]

And God save us from pastors who cow to liturgy committees. If I should inherit a liturgy committee someday, they will be strictly an advisory council, should I retain them at all.

He is a good priest… but I agree with you… a priest today has to fight through the foolish things that have accumulated in the culture of the Church today. All of these committees miss the mark of what the true mission of the laity is (stop holding meetings… start evangelizing a pagan world!).

 

[Titus]

Maybe I will try to get on the liturgy committee and stir things up… infiltrate the twisted system from the inside!

Definitely. A liturgy committee of CAF members would probably work very well! No overruling the priest or hundreds of ‘Eucharistic ministers’!

 

[didymus]

Yesterday our assistant presided, concelebrating with our pastor and another priest.
I wondered what was going to happen because the assistant always includes the confetior and bells while the pastor excludes both. I guess they compromised: bells but no Confetior.

Query: when priest concelebrate why do the co-celebrants wear only surplice and stole? It looked a little odd, the stole being the only thing that distinguished them from the altar boys – besides age

 

[Titus]

Yesterday our assistant presided, concelebrating with our pastor and another priest.
I wondered what was going to happen because the assistant always includes the confetior and bells while the pastor excludes both. I guess they compromised: bells but no Confetior.

Query: when priest concelebrate why do the co-celebrants wear only surplice and stole? It looked a little odd, the stole being the only thing that distinguished them from the altar boys – besides age

This sounds like a case of confusion. They were probably not concelebrating. If they were, the full chasuble-stole-alb combo would be needed in most cases (sometimes the chasuble may be omitted). Did they say any part of the Eucharistic prayer? In the TLM, there was no concelebration, and priests assisted in choir dress with stole; this sounds like what happened to you.

 

[lizaanne]

We have bells at every mass (all NO, we don’t have TLM at my parish). We also have incense at our 10:45am Sunday mass which is sooooo nice! Love smells and bells!!

It’s funny - I’m so used to hearing the bells, that when I go to a Church that does not use them, I do a little “ching-ching-ching” in my head.

~Liza

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

We have a tower bell, it’s very lovely. I haven’t heard it ring though in a while, I’ll have to ask the Father. It might be broke or he just doesn’t have anyone ringing it. More than likely he just doesn’t have anyone. If that’s the case then I’ll ring it!

If it is rung by a rope, it may well be that nobody is willing to ring it before Mass. This was the case in my old parish. People assumed it was electrically-rung and broken, when in fact it was manually rung and simply neglected. All one had to do was go up to the choir loft and enter the storage room where the rope terminated. In some churches, the ropes terminate in a wall-mounted box in the vestibule. I offered to ring it on Sundays and did it for six years straight. I trained a couple of others to ring it so it would continue to be rung after I moved. If the bell is cracked or architecturally unstable, I wouldn’t mess with it. An electric solenoid striker usually can be installed in unstable situations, but a cracked bell must be removed and recast.

My normal pattern was a one minute peal (swinging) at fifteen minutes before Mass began, then a three minute peal at five minutes before Mass. Also, three tolls (stationary striking) at each elevation. Most single bell installations have two ropes, one for pealing and the other for tolling. If you don’t know which is which and don’t want to be embarassed by a loud noise, gently pull one of the ropes a couple of inches and release it. If it slowly rises, it is probably the pealing rope, If it snaps back with a thud, it is the tolling hammer.

 

[lak611]

If it is rung by a rope, it may well be that nobody is willing to ring it before Mass. This was the case in my old parish. People assumed it was electrically-rung and broken, when in fact it was manually rung and simply neglected. All one had to do was go up to the choir loft and enter the storage room where the rope terminated. In some churches, the ropes terminate in a wall-mounted box in the vestibule. I offered to ring it on Sundays and did it for six years straight. I trained a couple of others to ring it so it would continue to be rung after I moved. If the bell is cracked or architecturally unstable, I wouldn’t mess with it. An electric solenoid striker usually can be installed in unstable situations, but a cracked bell must be removed and recast.

My normal pattern was a one minute peal (swinging) at fifteen minutes before Mass began, then a three minute peal at five minutes before Mass. Also, three tolls (stationary striking) at each elevation. Most single bell installations have two ropes, one for pealing and the other for tolling. If you don’t know which is which and don’t want to be embarassed by a loud noise, gently pull one of the ropes a couple of inches and release it. If it slowly rises, it is probably the pealing rope, If it snaps back with a thud, it is the tolling hammer.

Is the pealing the higher pitched bell sound, and the tolling the sound usually used for funerals? I am always moved when I hear the bells at a funeral.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

Pealing means swinging the bell back and forth by its yoke, as is normally done before Mass. Tolling involves single strikes from a hammer mounted underneath or to the side of the bell, which pops up to strike the bell while the bell itself remains still. This is common for funeral tolls, hour (clock) strikes, or for the Angelus. Neither pealing nor tolling can change the pitch of a bell, which always remains the same, but pealing it gives a Doppler effect and almost doubles the sound output.

Many American churches have bells that cannot swing (dead hung), but are struck with electric hammers. A peal in this case would involve repeated striking. A typical English peal (rare in America) would start with the bell upside-down, rotating 360º, and stopping again upside-down, to be reversed in the next rope pull. Normally, several such bells are sounded in mathematical sequences called change ringing. Eastern Orthodox churches perform similar rhythmic sequences on dead hung bells, while bells in Spain, Portugal, and Latin America are a combination of dead-hung bells rung in sequence and “esquilas” which are bells flipped end-over-end by people standing behind them, or occasionally a motor.