Benedict Altar Setting

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Has your parish adopted the setting used by the Pope re: altar crucifix and candles
 
No, and I don’t know that our pastor has any intention of doing so. As far as I know, we don’t have the “hardware” for it (candles and a crucifix to stand on the altar).
 
No, and no plans to do it. That setup would not fit the building design, it would stand out like a sore thumb.
 
What is the new setting? Do you have a link or something with more information?
 
I voted yes because we now have an Altar Crucifix but not candles yet. we have the 6 BIG candles next to the wall behind the altar and then 2 on either side of the altar, but none directly on the altar as of yet. We may see that in time.👍

I was so excited to see the altar crucifix on there let me tell you!
 
We did have six candles and an altar crucifix for several years. Then pastor was reassigned and new pastor took it all away, replacing it with only two freestanding candles.

I miss it and wish new pastor would bring it back.
 
Good grief, I couldn’t understand why there was a thread entitled “Benedict Arnold Setting”, but as a history major in college, had to look!!! :eek:

Gotta get new glasses.
 
I understand the reasons for a crucifix on the altar, and obviously would love to see it. It isn’t happening in the parish I belong to as far as I can tell. Too bad. However, I am wondering if there is a history to the candles? Our church has two, one on either side. I have seen a similar setup in most churches. Is six a more historical setting? Was it at one time the way it was done, or does it have a meaning which makes it more desirable than the two I usually see?
 
Eilish_Maura said:
Why would any parish want to do this?
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Why would they not want to? Is there anything wrong with it?

And yes, it is happening at various parishes around New Orleans and being very well received as well I might add.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
Why would any parish want to do this?
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Allow me to fix your typo:
Why wouldn’t any parish want to do this?
Click to expand...
😃

Seriously, Pope Benedict believes that it is better for a priest to celebrate Mass “ad orientem” - facing Liturgical east. If that is not possible then he advocates using what has come to be know as the “Benedictine altar arrangement”. This too he believes is superior to Mass “facing the people”.

The Holy Father dedicated an entire chapter to this in his book The Spirit of the Liturgy.

A couple of excerpts:

Despite all the variations in practice that have taken place far into the second millennium, one thing has remained clear for the whole of Christendom: praying toward the east is a tradition that goes back to the beginning.

Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, The Spirit of the Liturgy 75

**Where a direct common turning toward the east is not possible, the cross can serve as the interior “east” of faith. It should stand in the middle of the altar and be the common point of focus for both priest and praying community. In this way we obey the ancient call to prayer: "Conversi ad Dominum, Turn toward the Lord! In this way we look together at the One whose death tore the veil of the Temple - the one who stands before the Father for us and encloses us in his arms in order to make us the new and living Temple. Moving the altar cross to the side to give an uninterrupted view of the priest is something I regard as one of the truly absurd phenomena of recent decades. Is teh cross disruptive during Mass? Is the priest more important than the Lord? This mistake should be corrected as quickly as possible; it can be done without further rebuilding. The Lord is the point of reference. He is the rising sun of history. That is why there could be a cross of the Passion, which represents the suffering Lord who for us let his side be pierced, from which flowed blood and water (Eucharist and Baptism), as well as a cross of triumph, which expresses the idea of the Second Coming and guides our eyes toward it. For it is always the one Lord: Christ yesterday, today, and forever (Heb 13:8).

*Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, The Spirit of the Liturgy 83-84

***and of course after I typed all of this I remembered that the entire chapter is available online.

The Altar and the Direction of Liturgical Prayer

James
 
[Edited]

Until this preference of B16’s becomes some kind of law or other mandatory requirement it is just his preference and his view.
James0235 said:
Allow me to fix your typo:

😃

Seriously, Pope Benedict believes that it is better for a priest to celebrate Mass “ad orientem” - facing Liturgical east. If that is not possible then he advocates using what has come to be know as the “Benedictine altar arrangement”. This too he believes is superior to Mass “facing the people”.

The Holy Father dedicated an entire chapter to this in his book The Spirit of the Liturgy.

A couple of excerpts:

Despite all the variations in practice that have taken place far into the second millennium, one thing has remained clear for the whole of Christendom: praying toward the east is a tradition that goes back to the beginning.

Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, The Spirit of the Liturgy 75

Where a direct common turning toward the east is not possible, the cross can serve as the interior “east” of faith. It should stand in the middle of the altar and be the common point of focus for both priest and praying community. In this way we obey the ancient call to prayer: "Conversi ad Dominum, Turn toward the Lord! In this way we look together at the One whose death tore the veil of the Temple - the one who stands before the Father for us and encloses us in his arms in order to make us the new and living Temple. Moving the altar cross to the side to give an uninterrupted view of the priest is something I regard as one of the truly absurd phenomena of recent decades. Is teh cross disruptive during Mass? Is the priest more important than the Lord? This mistake should be corrected as quickly as possible; it can be done without further rebuilding. The Lord is the point of reference. He is the rising sun of history. That is why there could be a cross of the Passion, which represents the suffering Lord who for us let his side be pierced, from which flowed blood and water (Eucharist and Baptism), as well as a cross of triumph, which expresses the idea of the Second Coming and guides our eyes toward it. For it is always the one Lord: Christ yesterday, today, and forever (Heb 13:8).

*Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, The Spirit of the Liturgy 83-84

*and of course after I typed all of this I remembered that the entire chapter is available online.

The Altar and the Direction of Liturgical Prayer

James
Click to expand...
 
palmas85 said:
Why would they not want to? Is there anything wrong with it?

And yes, it is happening at various parishes around New Orleans and being very well received as well I might add.
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I did not say anything was ‘wrong’ with it.

I don’t, however, think that because nothing is ‘wrong’ with it that in itself is sufficient to make such changes.

It is simply one more option that is available.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
Until this preference of B16’s becomes some kind of law or other mandatory requirement it is just his preference and his view.
Click to expand...
It’s the “preference” and “view” of the Pope, who isn’t just blowing hot air on the matter. He’s attempting to reclaim some of the Catholic identity that was lost when innovations trumped the traditional liturgy of the Church. And it’s a “preference” and “view” that has plenty of theological significance behind it. It’s not an empty gesture or a political move.
Eilish_Maura said:
I don’t, however, think that because nothing is ‘wrong’ with it that in itself is sufficient to make such changes. It is simply one more option that is available.
Click to expand...
It could be objectively better than going without. And you’re absolutely right, it’s an option that’s available (one that the Pope seems to be endorsing more and more lately), and it’s not required by law, and this thread never implied otherwise. It simply asks: “Is your parish using the Benedictine Altar arrangement?”
 
japhy said:
It’s the “preference” and “view” of the Pope, who isn’t just blowing hot air on the matter. He’s attempting to reclaim some of the Catholic identity that was lost when innovations trumped the traditional liturgy of the Church. And it’s a “preference” and “view” that has plenty of theological significance behind it. It’s not an empty gesture or a political move.
Click to expand...
It is just a preference he has - until he takes steps to make into some kind of enforceable practice does it make any real difference what parishes do or don’t adopt the same practice?

My parish is no less Catholic because my pastor does not use the same table setting as the Pope.
 
Eilish_Maura said:
[Edited]

You asked a question and I answered it with the opinion of the Holy Father on the matter.
Eilish Maura;3734415:
Until this preference of B16’s becomes some kind of law or other mandatory requirement it is just his preference and his view.
Click to expand...
Ad Orientem worship is the law of the Church. Right now there is nothing prohibiting a priest from celebrating facing the people but the law of the Church seems to assume that the priest is facing ad orientem while not specifically prohibiting versus populum.

Vatican II never mandated that the altars be turned around or that the priest should offer the Mass versus populum (facing the people) rather than ad orientem (towards the east). In fact, the language used in the General Instruction of the Roman Missal
(GIRM) seems to suggest that, while facing the people may be permitted, facing the altar is the norm.

In the GIRM there are several places where the priest is instructed when to turn around and face the people implying that he is not facing the people at other times:

** 1975 GIRM (superseded by the 2002 GIRM)

** ** 107.** The priest returns to the center and, facing the people and extending then joining his hands, pronounces the invitation: <Pray, brothers and sisters>. After the people’s response, he says the prayer over the gifts with hands outstretched.
At the end the people make the acclamation: .

** 115.** After the prayer the priest genuflects, takes the eucharistic bread, and, holding it slightly above the paten while facing the people, says: . With the people he adds, once only: <Lord, I am not worthy to receive
you>.

** 122.** Then, standing at the altar or at the chair and facing the people, the priest says, with hands outstretched: . There may be a brief period of silence, unless this has been already observed immediately after communion. He
recites the prayer after communion, at the end of which the people make the response:
.

** 2002 GIRM (the current one)**

** 124.** …Then, facing the people and extending his hands, the priest greets the people, using one of the formulas indicated. The priest himself or some other minister may also very briefly introduce the faithful to the Mass of the day.

** 146.** Upon returning to the middle of the altar, the priest, facing the people and extending and then joining his hands, invites the people to pray, saying, Orate, fraters (Pray, brethren). The people rise and make their response: Suscipiat Dominus
(May the Lord accept). Then the priest, with hands extended, says the prayer over the offerings. At the end the people make the acclamation, Amen.

** 157.** When the prayer is concluded, the priest genuflects, takes the host consecrated in the same Mass, and, holding it slightly raised above the paten or above the chalice, while facing the people, says, Ecce Agnus Dei (This is the Lamb of God). With the people he adds, Domine, non sum dignus (Lord, I am not worthy).

This is not to say that celebrating the Mass versus populum is not permitted. But it is not intended to be the norm. Vatican II did not change that. And Pope Benedict seems to intend to restore Ad Orientem worship to the Church.

James
Click to expand...
 
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