Benedict and Harry Potter

[Liberian]

Big DL 75,

There was a very interesting article in Catholic Answers (“The Morals of Magic,” July-August 2001) comparing and contrasting “Lord of the Rings” and the Harry Potter books. I commend it to anybody who wants to speak intelligently about Harry Potter.

catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0107fea1.asp

• Liberian

 

[puzzleannie]

What do you guys think of Pope Benedict condemning the Harry Potter books?

in the first place Benedict, since he has been pope, has not condemned the Harry Potter books. He did write a private article stating his personal opinion while still cardinal, but did not issue a condemnation as part of his official work.

in the second place, this topic has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum, (long before april 2006 so discussions are still in the archives) so have at it.

 

[Brigadier]

I’ve been a huge fan of Harry Potter (the books only) for a good six years (can’t wait for book seven) and don’t think they’re evil.

There are children’s books I wouldn’t buy for any child or adult, like His Dark Materials, which is a popular series for kids (a scary thing considering the content of the books, mainly all the atheist views of the author and the way in which he is ‘very convincing’).

Harry Potter contains what I would describe as fairytale magic (wands, flying broomsticks, enchanted paintings and photos - in my opinion a far cry from sitting down with a ouija board or holding hands and chanting dead people’s names). It does contain ‘forbidden curses’ and other dark magic, all of which is despised by the good characters.

The books can get somewhat gory in places, and there are some reasonably horrific descriptions throughout, such as that which appears at the end of the first book.

Amorth, who is also the president of the International Association of Exorcists, said the series contains many positive references to “the satanic art” of magic and makes no distinction between black and white magic.
From that it seems like he hasn’t even read the books, because there is a huge distinction between good and evil (or white and black) magic in the books. One might even say the books revolve around good versus evil, and evil is definitely not glorified in Harry Potter.

 

[Hastrman]

White Magic is a trap for suckers, of course. All people who really believe in it (e.g. Native Americans) don’t trust the good any more than the bad. The Navajo, for instance, are leery of singers (shamans), or used to be, because they know so much about witchcraft…what’s to stop them from pointing bones (cursing people)?

Heheheheh. Anyway. My impression was that Amorth has, in fact, seen children led to the occult by Harry Potter, which is more than likely. Dumb kids with bad parents will do stupid things, and there is a lot of real alchemy in the books (more, in fact, than in FullMetal Alchemist, which is about alchemy). So he’s just saying what he’s seen.

And frankly, I think HH Benedict was just saying, Yes, be careful wherever you have stories about magic. The books are ever-so-slightly Christian, but what does that mean? The Rosicrucians regard themselves as Christians, Anglicans are nominal Christians (even the Ancient Order of Druids), and Moonies say they’re Christian, too.

Kids get headaches from reading anything, not just Harry Potter. And I’d rather kids read decent stuff with imagination, like Harry Potter, than the garbage the American Lie-brary Association recommends. Heather Has Two Mommies! Baby’s First Necronomicon! The NAMBLA Guide to What to Do On a Date! (OK, I’m being sarcastic. But not as sarcastic as I wish I was being).

Frankly, I’m just glad my little sister hasn’t heard about this. I don’t need to be the older brother of the girl who shot the Pope.

 

[Liberalsaved]

To be fair, many, many, children got distorted views of reality when they became too obsessed with the series.

I think it’s also fair to ask to have cases cited. If you’re going to make such claims you must be able to back it up with facts.

 

[estesbob]

Out of curiosity, I checked out a book-on-tape from the library once with the first Harry Potter book on it. There was one thing that really bothered me. At one point the narrator said that Harry “hated” his step-parents, or whoever they are. And they are mean, but it startled me. In all the morality literature and stories the hero who has been mistreated never is said to hate his tormentors. And “Hate is not a family value” is a popular bumper sticker. So why is hate now touted by the most popular books in the world?

.

You think thats Bad!! In Book three he turned his Aunt into a human blimp and watched her float down Privit Drive!!! Of course the ministry of magic covered it up.

 

[bones_IV]

I think the devil is hidden behind those books. Why let your children read them when it can blur the difference between right and wrong?

 

[Hello_Operator]

I think the devil is hidden behind those books. Why let your children read them when it can blur the difference between right and wrong?

I’ve read all six books and I eagerly await the seventh. I can assure you that right is purely distinct from wrong in this series.

 

[Whiggamore]

I’m going to write a series that tries to draw a distinction between good sexual immorality and bad sexual immorality… and watch as supposedly ‘Catholic’ parents defend it to their deaths as ‘harmless’ and ‘good for kids’. Hey, as long as it’s got imagination and will get kids reading, right? Ron might be raping Hermione… Harry is takin’ it from Prof. Snape… the Weasley’s are all at eachother… but at least they’re not the ‘bad’ sexually immoral people who murder, dress in black, meet at nights, and call themselves Death Adulterers. After all, evil is always so stereotypical, right?

And honestly, is the good in Harry Potter really so good? Is the bad in Harry Potter really so bad? Voldermort is just a pure-blood wizard trying to protect the workforce from being outsourced to Muggles. He’s standing up against the socialist Ministry of Magic. Not such a bad guy if you ask me… except just like Harry Potter he’s a sorceror. And that is evil, no matter how hard you try to imagine such a thing as a good sorceror in modern England.

Representin’ Pope Benedict XVI and Father Amorth, Exorcist, keep it real.

 

[robbmiller]

It is chilling how we will justify what is obviously wrong because we like it.

The letter to the Colossians warns “See to it that no one captivate you with an empty, seductive philosophy according to human tradition, according to the elemental powers of the world and not according to Christ.” [Colossians 2:8].

The Potter series posits seductive worldly philosophies that are truly captivating to children. This should be obvious to anyone who has observed children reading books from the series or watching the films.

Romans 12:2 commands, “Do not conform yourselves to this age but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and pleasing and perfect.”

How can we know if we are conforming to the values of this age? We might examine how we entertain ourselves. Are we entertained by the hate, violence, and immorality of others? Do we rationalize that it is acceptable because it is “everyone has read it” or justify our own enjoyment by stating that “everyone enjoys it”? If so, we are learning “to conform to the elemental powers of the world and not according to Christ.”

 

[estesbob]

It is chilling how we will justify what is obviously wrong because we like it.

.”

Ill come clean! I read and saw the Davinci code. I have read all the Harry Potter books and seen all 4 of the movies. I am expecting a letter from Archbishop Chaput anyday now-hopefully delivered by an Owl

 

[Milliardo]

There was one thing that really bothered me. At one point the narrator said that Harry “hated” his step-parents, or whoever they are. And they are mean, but it startled me. In all the morality literature and stories the hero who has been mistreated never is said to hate his tormentors.

Harry Potter isn’t written as a morality literature. I don’t think Rowling ever even said it’s a morality literature per se. Harry is shown as a typical teenager with typical emotions; he’s not a totally goody-goody hero, but has struggles the normal teenager does. That would include his feelings with his adoptive family, who has mistreated him. He’s not about to feel mushy about them and take their treatment of him piously, but as someone who is treated unfairly, would hold a grudge against those who do so. Now that’s not how it’s supposed to be–meaning, we’re taught to be forgiving of such people, so in such instances we should guide our children by asking them questions: “If you were in Harry’s place, what would you feel?” etc. In that way, we can have discussions with our children and at the same time teach them our faith.

Arnold is a convert, and was caught up in the occult before his conversion. He says that he finds it is people who have experience with the occult and witchcraft who have the most problems with Potter.

What does he exactly mean by “having problems”? It’s been noted quite well that Harry Potter doesn’t have elements of witchcraft–they’re not the ones done by witches. Practicioners of Wicca often deride those who say Harry Potter teaches withcraft, as they point out that they never do such things as done in Harry Potter. Harry Potter in fact doesn’t even teach the basic elements on how to cast spells as it is done in Wicca.

 

[Ruthmary]

The point is that the Potter books are attracting people to the witchcraft and wizardry when the Church and the Bible condemn them.

 

[Milliardo]

The point is that the Potter books are attracting people to the witchcraft and wizardry when the Church and the Bible condemn them.

I think that is simply too broad and misleading. I know several people who read the books; I am more than certain that none of them have turned to Wicca or witchcraft. It is simplistic to say that Harry Potter lead people towards withcraft; some might have been led, but certainly not most or even all.

 

[Liberalsaved]

I think that is simply too broad and misleading. I know several people who read the books; I am more than certain that none of them have turned to Wicca or witchcraft. It is simplistic to say that Harry Potter lead people towards withcraft; some might have been led, but certainly not most or even all.

I was, actually. After reading the first one I immediately setup a pentagram in my basement.

 

[milimac]

I think this is a good example of where one could disagree with the Pope, since it is basically an opinion as to whether this work is harmful or not. I’m a little undecided on it myself, seeing truth in both sides of the argument. Even just an opinion, coming from the pope, carries more weight with me though.

 

[shirleytowers]

Harry Potter is about as bad as Lord of the Rings or the Narnia books. I think when you look at the whole series, when the last book is out and we can clearly see the outcomes, we are going to see that the message either comports with Christianity or is plainly Christian.

From where I sit, the Christian symbolism is plain but has been missed by most.

For example, Harry’s wand is made of holly with a phoenix feather core, and Voldemort’s is made of yew with the same core as Harry’s, from the same bird. Yew symbolizes death and was planted in churchyards (graveyards), and holly symbolizes the crown of thorns and Christianity. There is an English legend that the cross was made of holly. The phoenix symbolizes rebirth. Does the author need to draw you a picture? I wonder if Harry will die…

The books are about overcoming death, as far as I can tell so far. I have read the books several times. I teach them, as they are very good for teaching symbolism and inference, etc., as well as heavy on the vocabulary–just right for the grade level I teach. If you look into them deeply, they are NOT about witchcraft.

 

[browser1]

I think theyre harmless and quite enjoy the series. Enid Blyton was my fave author as a child.

What about childrens fairytales like Cinderella, SnowWhite, Hansel and Gretel and The Wizard of Oz. Should Catholics steer away from these stories also?

 

[Ruthmary]

I think this is a good example of where one could disagree with the Pope, since it is basically an opinion as to whether this work is harmful or not. I’m a little undecided on it myself, seeing truth in both sides of the argument. Even just an opinion, coming from the pope, carries more weight with me though.

I’m so glad to see you recognize that God gave us a pope for a reason. I too don’t think we should dismiss his opinions out of hand. He was chosen by the Holy Spirit for a reason. If you would like to read further on this please see Michael O’Brien’s article Harry Potter and the Paganization of Children’s Culture at:catholiceducation.org/articles/arts/al0088.html
It’s long but very good.
He also has a book out called A Landscape With Dragons: The Battle for Your Child’s Mind It was written before Harry Potter, but addresses the main issue involved here. I also recommend Fr. Amorth’s book An Exorcist Tells His Story

God bless you in your search for the truth.

 

[robbmiller]

If you look into them deeply, they are NOT about witchcraft.

Really… what was the name of that school the main character – Harry – went to?? Hmmm… Hogwarts School of Divinity?? :nope: Nope, that’s not it…

And what was he studying?? was it fly fishing? no… botany?? no that’s not it either… someone help me here :banghead:

As I said in my previous post : It is chilling how we will justify what is obviously wrong because we like it.

Denying something does not mean it goes away. One does not have to delve too deeply to see the books are clearly **about **witchcraft.

we are going to see that the message either comports with Christianity or is plainly Christian

Really… so the witchcraft that is on the surface of this book is a deep allegory for Christianity? This is a ridiculous argument. Even if it were true, one would have to blind themselves not to see the spiritual danger of presenting Christ in that manner to children in their formative years.

[SIGN][/SIGN]