Benedict XVI Clarifies Luther's teachings on Justification

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You say “In hope we were saved.”, but does that mean you believe that your salvation is a “sure” thing? If you allow for the possibility of your salvation not being a sure thing, then you can not use the past tense “In hope we WERE saved.”.
No, the two are not mutually exclusive. Just because a person entered a right relationship with God (justification/state of grace) that does not mean they will remain in it.

I am curious, brkn1, what do you think Paul was talking about when he allowed that he himself could become “accursed” or “disqualified”. Are these references to a saved person?
 
What a beautiful explaination!
Praise be to God for the power of the Holy Spirit present in the life of this Pope.

If Pope Benedict keeps talking like this, he’s going to have a new problem…where to put all the new converts to Catholisim!
Right!👍
 
Looks to me like they are both right. I don’t think Luther had the idea that Paul’s statement on faith alone in Christ was simple. I believe he knew that faith in Christ meant a lifelong marathon so to speak.
So no need to split with his own Sola Fide?
 
So no need to split with his own Sola Fide?
That’s the crux of the issue.

I think Luther was right to point out some personal flaws and abuses of power among some bishops and priests at the time of the reformation, but I believe he was wrong to leave the Church.
 
That’s the crux of the issue.

I think Luther was right to point out some personal flaws and abuses of power among some bishops and priests at the time of the reformation, but I believe he was wrong to leave the Church.
The point being, the error did not stop there. Differences have one quick solution: split. Schism became fashionable with thousands of sects thereafter. Culturally, it sent a spiralling strend accross the centuries in the western world: divorce mentality.
When the going gets tough, individuals simply part ways without working it out to the other side of the struggle. It also begat an off-spring: instant gratification.
 
The point being, the error did not stop there. Differences have one quick solution: split. Schism became fashionable with thousands of sects thereafter. Culturally, it sent a spiralling strend accross the centuries in the western world: divorce mentality.
When the going gets tough, individuals simply part ways without working it out to the other side of the struggle. It also begat an off-spring: instant gratification.
Maybe, but I prefer to blame that problem child on the 60s!
 
No, the two are not mutually exclusive. Just because a person entered a right relationship with God (justification/state of grace) that does not mean they will remain in it.

I am curious, brkn1, what do you think Paul was talking about when he allowed that he himself could become “accursed” or “disqualified”. Are these references to a saved person?
I know from my protestant years, that it means that they were never “saved” in the beginning. They apparently didn’t have what it takes to be “saved,” or endure until the end. They were like the seed that feel on the rocky path, they spring up but quickly die.

I’m so glad that God is merciful and just. It’s our job to persevere until the end so that we receive the crown of righteousness which the Lord, the righteous Judge has promised to those who have loved his appearing. ( 2 Tim 4:8)
 
So no need to split with his own Sola Fide?
St. Paul and St. Peter agreed on a limited amount of knowledge between them, but argued about much. Paul even opposed Peter to his face. But, the one thing that they both agreed upon 100% is that God’s patience is Salvation. Martin Luther drew much from his positions during the Reformation upon that one agreed statement or “super truth” if you will from both Peter and Paul.
 
St. Paul and St. Peter agreed on a limited amount of knowledge between them, but argued about much. Paul even opposed Peter to his face. But, the one thing that they both agreed upon 100% is that God’s patience is Salvation. Martin Luther drew much from his positions during the Reformation upon that one agreed statement or “super truth” if you will from both Peter and Paul.
So no need for Sola Fide?
 
I don’t remember the part where he says that we are saved by God’s grace through faith in Christ and by our own merits in conjunction.
 
It depends, I think, on what you mean by salvific. But certainly Catholics and Lutherans agree that we are justified by grace alone through faith in Christ, that salvation is only possible because of grace. And that we respond to grace by doing the good works he prepares us and calls us to do.

Jon
I understand. But if I’m not mistaken, Luther did not believe we would a) be judged on our works and b) our works do not sanctify us, make us holier.
 
I understand. But if I’m not mistaken, Luther did not believe we would a) be judged on our works and b) our works do not sanctify us, make us holier.
Actually, works are part of our sanctification. Good works are part of our growth in grace. I don’t think Luther ever denied judgement at the end of the age. In fact Lutherans continue to adhere to the creed, which states He will return to “judge the living and the dead”. All he said was that we are justified by grace alone through faith alone because of Christ alone.

Jon
 
That’s the crux of the issue.

I think Luther was right to point out some personal flaws and abuses of power among some bishops and priests at the time of the reformation, but I believe he was wrong to leave the Church.
I agree, abuse and corruption should always and everywhere be confronted. I don’t think he meant to leave the Church, either, and was very saddened by what happened. His rebellion was seized upon by political and economic forces that had been brewing for centuries, and finally came to a head, using his polemic as the rocket.
 
I know from my protestant years, that it means that they were never “saved” in the beginning. They apparently didn’t have what it takes to be “saved,” or endure until the end. They were like the seed that feel on the rocky path, they spring up but quickly die.

I’m so glad that God is merciful and just. It’s our job to persevere until the end so that we receive the crown of righteousness which the Lord, the righteous Judge has promised to those who have loved his appearing. ( 2 Tim 4:8)
I am aware of that perspective, but most of those in the OSAS tradition believe that Paul was saved, and that he knew he was saved, so how could Paul use these terms about himself?
 
St. Paul and St. Peter agreed on a limited amount of knowledge between them, but argued about much. Paul even opposed Peter to his face. But, the one thing that they both agreed upon 100% is that God’s patience is Salvation. Martin Luther drew much from his positions during the Reformation upon that one agreed statement or “super truth” if you will from both Peter and Paul.
No. Peter and Paul never “argued about much”. In fact, at the council of Jerusalem, Peter was Pauls greatest advocate from among the 12. Paul opposed Peter because Peter had made an infallible statement at the Council of Jerusalem, then later was not acting in accordance with his own teaching!

"But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood self-condemned;…Gal 2:11-12

Peter proclaimed at the Council of Jerusalem that the Gentiles were saved by grace, through faith, just as were the Jews, and that they should not be bound my the Law. When He went to Antioch, he failed to live in accordance with his own infallible decree which came by revelation of God. That is why Peter was self condemned.
 
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