Benedict XVI's vision of one form of the Roman Rite

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An online friend of mine was looking for it. Where is it?

Blessings,
Cloisters
Toledo, Spain.
The Mozarabic Rite is celebrated daily in the Corpus Christi Chapel (also called the Mozarabic Chapel) in the Cathedral of Toledo. In Madrid, the Mozarabic Rite is celebrated in Spanish every Tuesday at a monastery of Poor Clare Sisters. Two of the original six “Mozarabic” parishes of Toledo remain and have about two hundred families in an association of those claiming historical observance of the Mozarabic Rite. Additionally, all the churches of Toledo annually celebrate this rite on the Mozarabic Feast of the Incarnation on December 18, and on the feast day of Saint Ildephonsus on January 23. The rite is also used on certain days each year in the Talavera Chapel of the Old Cathedral of Salamanca and less regularly in other cities in Spain. Pope John Paul II celebrated it once in 1992 and again in 2000.
Mozarabic rite and missal here (website in Spanish): mercaba.org/LITURGIA/Mozarabe/cartel_rito_hispanomozarabe.htm
(Wikipedia).

Apart from the other rites I mentioned, one has to add the Bragan Rite, of the Archdiocese of Braga, the Primatial See of Portugal and the Carmelite Rite. And of course now there is a third form of the Roman Rite, the Anglican Use.
 
Toledo, Spain.

Mozarabic rite and missal here (website in Spanish): mercaba.org/LITURGIA/Mozarabe/cartel_rito_hispanomozarabe.htm
(Wikipedia).

Apart from the other rites I mentioned, one has to add the Bragan Rite, of the Archdiocese of Braga, the Primatial See of Portugal and the Carmelite Rite. And of course now there is a third form of the Roman Rite, the Anglican Use.
Liturgical changes happens so quickly now. January 1, 2016 the Anglican Use was replaced by the Divine Worship Liturgy.
 
I think there could be some middle ground between the two.

The Church could have continued to utilize the Tridentine Mass liturgy — only allow it to be said in the vernacular, such as in English. Keep everything else pretty much the same.

This would meet the needs of those that prefer the vernacular over Latin.

If there are concerns with the priest facing the altar, and not being heard by the parishioners, then give the priest a microphone attached to his vestments, or let him turn briefly towards the people in certain select parts of the Mass.

Basically, they could have kept the Tridentine Mass pretty much completely intact and made minor accommodations for the vernacular, etc.

When you compare the two side by side, there could definitely be some middle ground. I am doubtful, however, that if you banned the Tridentine Mass altogether if it would go away. It would just continue underground or with schismatic groups.
It may be that Benedict envisioned chances to the EF, but I would suspect that it would be a very brave pope who would make such changes.

a goodly number of people who prefer the EF would go along with changes, assuming they were not very much (and I sincerely doubt the Church will ever see the EF in the vernacular as a regular practice, Latin being one of the main issues people who support the EF speak about). There appears, however, to be a significant number of people who would come close to a meltdown were an changes proposed; and I include both those who attend SSPX chapels, and those who don’t but seem to be very sympathetic to them.

As to facing liturgical East, that is already possible in the OF, and practiced primarily in its avoidance… and again, I really wonder that anyone wants to take that issue on, with the exception of the few who continue to comment about it. And considering this pope is not one of them…
 
Liturgical changes happens so quickly now. January 1, 2016 the Anglican Use was replaced by the Divine Worship Liturgy.
One really should not say that the Anglican Use was replaced. Rather the Book of Divine Worship (BDW), which was basically cobbled together in the 1980s (and rested heavily upon the American 1979 Book of Common Prayer) and was used through the intervening years was definitively replaced by the Missal of Divine Worship this year. It has been a work in progress for some time and is very indebted to the labour of Steven Lopes, who is now the Bishop for the Ordinariate of the Chair of Saint Peter for the United States and Canada.

There were a number of additions as well as changes which distinguishes this new liturgical book from the BDW…not least the elimination of Rite II, which was in contemporary English. Congregations wishing that option now would celebrate the Eucharist according to the Roman Missal.

The Anglican Use was and remains a distinct liturgical use within the Roman Rite.
 
I think there could be some middle ground between the two.

The Church could have continued to utilize the Tridentine Mass liturgy — only allow it to be said in the vernacular, such as in English. Keep everything else pretty much the same.

This would meet the needs of those that prefer the vernacular over Latin.

If there are concerns with the priest facing the altar, and not being heard by the parishioners, then give the priest a microphone attached to his vestments, or let him turn briefly towards the people in certain select parts of the Mass.

Basically, they could have kept the Tridentine Mass pretty much completely intact and made minor accommodations for the vernacular, etc.

When you compare the two side by side, there could definitely be some middle ground. I am doubtful, however, that if you banned the Tridentine Mass altogether if it would go away. It would just continue underground or with schismatic groups.
When you look at the whole of what the Council Fathers mandated, it was not “minor accommodations” they called for nor was the vernacular at the Mass the critical component. Rather, the vernacular was one part of an entirely new way for both the clergy and the laity to experience the liturgy.

The Council Fathers actually put at the head of this renewal and reformation of the liturgy a revision of how seminarians were to be educated and formed; the clergy already were to be re-educated to better prepared than they were in that moment to enact what the Council Fathers were mandating. They understood and acknowledged that the clergy were under-prepared by their studies for this critical area of their ministry and they moved to rectify that.
  • They mandated the liturgy in its entirety was in need of “reformation” and “restoration”. The rites were to be simplified and all liturgical books were to undergo immediate revision.
  • Needless repetition was to be eliminated.
  • Things which had been added to no benefit were to be completely discarded.
  • Things lost by accident of history were to be restored.
  • Rubrics were to be drawn up for the peoples actions, gestures, postures, responses, singing and other involvement and these were to be enacted so that the congregation was dynamically a part of the liturgical action.
  • Laity were to become engaged as lectors and as commentators to facilitate the full, conscious and active participation of everyone present.
  • Choirs were to be constituted in such a way that their action and involvement was seen as integrated into the celebration of the liturgy.
  • The cycle of readings was to be radically altered in favour of a multi-year lectionary that would also greatly expand the amount of scripture readings and to significantly increase the proportion of the bible people would be hearing proclaimed.
It was not just the Mass but every liturgical book was mandated for reform…how adults were to be received into the Church, how infant baptism, the sacrament of confirmation was to be overhauled, anointing of the sick was to be revised, the sacrament of penance, marriage, blessings and institution of sacramentals…new sacramentals were to be created to respond the times and the modern age…the breviary was to be re-done – in short, every single aspect of the Church’s liturgical life was found in need of revision by the world’s bishops.

Those who were outside the United States were already experiencing in the 1940s and 1950s the dialogue Masses and even Mass facing the people, thanks to the Liturgical Movement. These were not innovations coming after the council for Europeans but rather were the impetus for bolder action on the part of the Council Fathers as well as the periti, taking their inspiration and departure point from the Liturgical Movement.
 
It may be that Benedict envisioned chances to the EF, but I would suspect that it would be a very brave pope who would make such changes.

a goodly number of people who prefer the EF would go along with changes, assuming they were not very much (and I sincerely doubt the Church will ever see the EF in the vernacular as a regular practice, Latin being one of the main issues people who support the EF speak about). There appears, however, to be a significant number of people who would come close to a meltdown were an changes proposed; and I include both those who attend SSPX chapels, and those who don’t but seem to be very sympathetic to them.

As to facing liturgical East, that is already possible in the OF, and practiced primarily in its avoidance… and again, I really wonder that anyone wants to take that issue on, with the exception of the few who continue to comment about it. And considering this pope is not one of them…
What you write evokes interesting memories for me. It reminds me of what was said to me once at a clergy meeting a very long time ago, which I have found to have a great amount of truth…“for the Americans, if a document did not say you had to keep something they got rid of it while for us in Europe, if the document didn’t say you had to change something, we kept it.”

I can’t tell you how many times over the decades I have said Mass not facing the people. It wholly and entirely depended upon what the church or chapel allowed. If there was (or reasonably could be) an altar that was free standing and permitted celebration toward the people, we would. If the altar did not and the structure did not led itself to some accommodation, we celebrated ad absidem with either a stand or server holding the missal so that whatever could be said facing the people could be said thus and what required the altar was said there.

I can’t remember one time when someone said they wanted to be at one place over another based on whether the priest was able to face the people or not during the anaphora – and the concept is very strange to me that someone would be so invested in that element.

There was no underlying ideology to things like that, actually. One way was not more “traditional” or “conservative” or whatever term one wishes…it was the novus ordo liturgy being celebrated as the sanctuary’s layout accommodated.

The concept of saying Mass “facing the altar” makes no sense to me…I am facing the altar in whichever direction I am standing…it is in front of me. Still less does Mass facing the tabernacle or “facing God” have significance. I am not offering the consecrated elements to the tabernacle and I am facing God, whichever point of the compass my face is directed toward.

In the same way, vestments were not conservative or liberal…they weren’t progressive or traditional. Roman vestments tended to be more old school and Belgian and Dutch vestment makers tended to be more a la vogue or avant garde. I’ve worn one one day and the other the next – and neither were an ideological statement. Whether one was using a Gothic vestment or a Roman vestment, each had their origins in the past and might have some stylistic aspect that was contemporary…or not.

Churches already built had, of course, their architectural elements in terms of statuary and side altars and communion rails. (Some people would still kneel at the rail for communion but most would receive standing.) Newer churches would have very different architectural styles and elements – as did our secular buildings, too. We typically would not try to make something from the late 20th century look like it was built in the 16th or the 13th or the 8th century.
 
It may be that Benedict envisioned chances to the EF, but I would suspect that it would be a very brave pope who would make such changes.

a goodly number of people who prefer the EF would go along with changes, assuming they were not very much (and I sincerely doubt the Church will ever see the EF in the vernacular as a regular practice, Latin being one of the main issues people who support the EF speak about). There appears, however, to be a significant number of people who would come close to a meltdown were an changes proposed; and I include both those who attend SSPX chapels, and those who don’t but seem to be very sympathetic to them.

As to facing liturgical East, that is already possible in the OF, and practiced primarily in its avoidance… and again, I really wonder that anyone wants to take that issue on, with the exception of the few who continue to comment about it. And considering this pope is not one of them…
In particular in the 2007 letter to the bishops (old Missal is EF, new is latest OF): “new Prefaces can and should be inserted in the old Missal. The “Ecclesia Dei” Commission, in contact with various bodies devoted to the usus antiquior, will study the practical possibilities in this regard.”
 
I pray that the Traditional Latin Mass remains unchanged. There is nothing more beautiful on this side of heaven.
 
I pray that the Traditional Latin Mass remains unchanged. There is nothing more beautiful on this side of heaven.
For a solemn High Mass, you’re probably right. But not a low Mass sped read in 20 minutes. I would think that though the low Mass is fully valid and efficacious as an instrument of God’s grace, the Sunday OF Mass at our Abbey, sung in Gregorian chant as it is every day, but with greater solemnity on Sundays, feast and solemnities, is probably much closer in beauty to the solemn EF High Mass than to an EF Low Mass.
 
For a solemn High Mass, you’re probably right. But not a low Mass sped read in 20 minutes. I would think that though the low Mass is fully valid and efficacious as an instrument of God’s grace, the Sunday OF Mass at our Abbey, sung in Gregorian chant as it is every day, but with greater solemnity on Sundays, feast and solemnities, is probably much closer in beauty to the solemn EF High Mass than to an EF Low Mass.
I agree. And if the celebrant of a Solemn High Mass is a bishop, it is the most solemn form of Mass, at least according to Bishop Sample.

Strangely enough, though, or maybe not, most Masses celebrated before Vatican II were Low Masses. People, even now, seem to prefer faster (and more convenient) Masses. Fortunately, however, not everyone does.
 
For a solemn High Mass, you’re probably right. But not a low Mass sped read in 20 minutes. I would think that though the low Mass is fully valid and efficacious as an instrument of God’s grace, the Sunday OF Mass at our Abbey, sung in Gregorian chant as it is every day, but with greater solemnity on Sundays, feast and solemnities, is probably much closer in beauty to the solemn EF High Mass than to an EF Low Mass.
Also beautiful is Missa Cantata (without deacon or sub-deacon).
 
I believe the EF should be allowed to be distinguished. If the two forms are synthesized, what will happen to the FSSP? They don’t celebrate just the mass in the EF, correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe they celebrate all of the sacraments in the EF.
 
I believe the EF should be allowed to be distinguished. If the two forms are synthesized, what will happen to the FSSP? They don’t celebrate just the mass in the EF, correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe they celebrate all of the sacraments in the EF.
Pretty sure they celebrate mass solely in the EF. Never seen an FSSP related mass that wasn’t in the EF, sacramental or otherwise.

If they were ever synthesized I’d imagine FSSP and similar groups would push to still have the EF as an option. Though I imagine they would welcome the RCC moving the OF more toward what the EF is today.
 
Pretty sure they celebrate mass solely in the EF. Never seen an FSSP related mass that wasn’t in the EF, sacramental or otherwise.

If they were ever synthesized I’d imagine FSSP and similar groups would push to still have the EF as an option. Though I imagine they would welcome the RCC moving the OF more toward what the EF is today.
My recollection was that at one point, they were internally forbidden to say the OF, and Rome said “Wrong!”. Some time during the reign of John Paul II.
 
My recollection was that at one point, they were internally forbidden to say the OF, and Rome said “Wrong!”. Some time during the reign of John Paul II.
Yeah from what I’m read that was more or less the case. But it was more a case of priests being told what they can and officially can’t say (just as a typical OF priest can say an EF all they want as well). Practically however FSSP priests typically don’t say the OF mass just as most diocesan priests don’t say the EF.
 
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