C
CountrySteve
Guest
Does anyone know were to buy the full Benedictine Divine Office, with all the hours the Monks pray? Including Vigils and Matins
God bless.
God bless.
- Status
J
jwinch2
Guest
Hi Steve,
Each Benedictine monastery is quite autonomous and tends to come up with their own breviary for themselves, or in conjunction with their congregations (Swiss-American, Solesmes, American-Cassinese, Olivetan, etc.). Because of that, and though the Divine Office is a massive part of Benedictine Prayer life, there really isn’t a Benedictine Office, that all monks pray.
However, there is something called the Monastic Diurnal, which may or may not be of interest to you. Here is a link to a thread on the subject. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=699255
Peace of Christ,
F
futureKC123
Guest
Hello, Steve,
I pray the Benedictine Office from the Diurnal every day and let me attest to it’s blessing! Let me know if you have any questions about it or how to get started with praying it. It is the perfect archetype of Benedictine spirituality and is the very office formulated by Father Benedict himself. It is also and amazing feeling to know that you are praying liturgically with all the other laymen, brothers, priests, and monks who use it worldwide. You actually listen to recordings of Benedictine monks in Norcia online saying the office from the Diurnal, though most laymen do not chant it. Here’s a link for it: osbnorcia.org/blog
Also, here is a wonderful review of the book itself: absnospin.blogspot.com/2008/01/monastic-diurnal-review.html
Just a note: the book in the review is a little older edition than the one available now.
Again let me know if I can help in any way with your questions,
Pax tecum,
FKC
I pray the Benedictine Office from the Diurnal every day and let me attest to it’s blessing! Let me know if you have any questions about it or how to get started with praying it. It is the perfect archetype of Benedictine spirituality and is the very office formulated by Father Benedict himself. It is also and amazing feeling to know that you are praying liturgically with all the other laymen, brothers, priests, and monks who use it worldwide. You actually listen to recordings of Benedictine monks in Norcia online saying the office from the Diurnal, though most laymen do not chant it. Here’s a link for it: osbnorcia.org/blog
Also, here is a wonderful review of the book itself: absnospin.blogspot.com/2008/01/monastic-diurnal-review.html
Just a note: the book in the review is a little older edition than the one available now.
Again let me know if I can help in any way with your questions,
Pax tecum,
FKC
J
jwinch2
Guest
The Monastic office from well before the Tridentine Rite is also available online if you are so inclined.
divinumofficium.com/cgi-bin/horas/officium.pl
divinumofficium.com/cgi-bin/horas/officium.pl
C
CountrySteve
Guest
Oh, yes, i do have some questions, i will pm them to you. God bless
C
CountrySteve
Guest
Oh cool, thanks for the link
God bless
J
jwinch2
Guest
You are welcome Steve. Check out the tread on the Diurnal also, there is some good info in there about resources for praying the MD.Oh cool, thanks for the link
Peace,
O
OraLabora
Guest
I would ask first if you mean the pre-conciliar or post-conciliar version of the monastic Divine Office.
Pre-conciliar there is the Monastic Diurnal but it doesn’t include Matins. To be considered liturgy it should be prayed in Latin. Finding pre-conciliar Matins will be tough. I have an old pre-conciliar Breviarium Monasticum given to me by my spiritual director (I use it for research and reference, not as prayer).
Most Benedictines now use a post-conciliar office. Happily, the original schema of St. Benedict survived the Council with some minor adjustments (you can retain Prime or optionally omit it and redistribute its psalms in a couple of options to either Matins or the minor hours). It’s called Schema A.
There are three other published schemas: B, which the abbey I’m associated with uses (and is in fact currently the most popular schema in monasteries) does 150 psalms per week (one week cycle, with a couple of two-week options). C and D are on two-week cycles. Beyond that, as Jason points out many abbeys have “house” schemas, as the Rule of St. Benedict does allow some flexibility there, and Benedictine houses are independent.
My own view is that one should use a pre-conciliar office if one regularly attends and EF Mass, and a post-conciliar office if one attends an OF Mass. Liturgy is an organic whole with the Mass at its summit. Mixing pre- and post-conciliar forms is incongruent, the gospel canticle antiphons won’t match the gospel readings, etc.
For books, www.solesmes.com sells what you need for the post-conciliar office with chant notation. But it’s complicated. You will need:
Liber Hymnarius for the hymns
Psalterium Monasticum (or the Latin-French Psautier Monastique) for the antiphons and psalms of the ferial office especially for Matins, or Antiphonale Monasticum II (2006, day hours only)
Antiphonale Monasticum I (2005) for the Proper of the Seasons
Antiphonale Monasticum III (2007), sanctoral
Antiphonale IV will be Matins and is not yet available. It was supposed to come out in 2010 but the departure of one of the monks key to its production has held things up
Antiphonale Monasticum V is also available but is only for the Solesmes Congregation (feasts proper to the congregation)
Matins will be problematic because the Psalterium only has Matins for the ferial office. For the propers and commons, it only contains references, so you’ll be flipping pages like crazy.
For the pre-conciliar office, Solesmes has the Antiphonale Monasticum of 1934 but for the day hours only.
For Matins in the pre-conciliar form, there’s currently no known official source. You’d have to scour used book sales or ask monasteries for copies of old breviaries. I think there’s an Anglican version out there somewhere.
All this brings me to the question: why? The Monastic Office was designed for monasteries. It requires recitation of a whopping 250 psalms a week. Believe me I’ve tried it and it is basically impossible for a layperson to pray the entire monastic office on a daily basis and have any kind of normal family and professional life. Even my abbey’s considerably lighter (150 psalms in 1 week) schema is hard work; it’s relatively easy if only read/recited because the entire breviary is only 2 volumes (however a lectionary is required for Matins), but chanted (and I love to chant the office), I need the same books as above plus a couple of house books.
If you scratch the surface of the current 4-volume Liturgy of the Hours, you’ll note it has more than a passing nod to Monastic tradition, if you avail yourself of some of the options in the General Instructions. That’s what I do (and our oblate director fully approves of oblates using the LOTH, in fact so does he when he’s out of the abbey), and I use the excellent Les Heures Grégoriennes to chant the daytime hours in Latin (I chant the Office of Readings as Vigils, in French monotone)
Feel free to PM me if you have any further questions.
Pre-conciliar there is the Monastic Diurnal but it doesn’t include Matins. To be considered liturgy it should be prayed in Latin. Finding pre-conciliar Matins will be tough. I have an old pre-conciliar Breviarium Monasticum given to me by my spiritual director (I use it for research and reference, not as prayer).
Most Benedictines now use a post-conciliar office. Happily, the original schema of St. Benedict survived the Council with some minor adjustments (you can retain Prime or optionally omit it and redistribute its psalms in a couple of options to either Matins or the minor hours). It’s called Schema A.
There are three other published schemas: B, which the abbey I’m associated with uses (and is in fact currently the most popular schema in monasteries) does 150 psalms per week (one week cycle, with a couple of two-week options). C and D are on two-week cycles. Beyond that, as Jason points out many abbeys have “house” schemas, as the Rule of St. Benedict does allow some flexibility there, and Benedictine houses are independent.
My own view is that one should use a pre-conciliar office if one regularly attends and EF Mass, and a post-conciliar office if one attends an OF Mass. Liturgy is an organic whole with the Mass at its summit. Mixing pre- and post-conciliar forms is incongruent, the gospel canticle antiphons won’t match the gospel readings, etc.
For books, www.solesmes.com sells what you need for the post-conciliar office with chant notation. But it’s complicated. You will need:
Liber Hymnarius for the hymns
Psalterium Monasticum (or the Latin-French Psautier Monastique) for the antiphons and psalms of the ferial office especially for Matins, or Antiphonale Monasticum II (2006, day hours only)
Antiphonale Monasticum I (2005) for the Proper of the Seasons
Antiphonale Monasticum III (2007), sanctoral
Antiphonale IV will be Matins and is not yet available. It was supposed to come out in 2010 but the departure of one of the monks key to its production has held things up
Antiphonale Monasticum V is also available but is only for the Solesmes Congregation (feasts proper to the congregation)
Matins will be problematic because the Psalterium only has Matins for the ferial office. For the propers and commons, it only contains references, so you’ll be flipping pages like crazy.
For the pre-conciliar office, Solesmes has the Antiphonale Monasticum of 1934 but for the day hours only.
For Matins in the pre-conciliar form, there’s currently no known official source. You’d have to scour used book sales or ask monasteries for copies of old breviaries. I think there’s an Anglican version out there somewhere.
All this brings me to the question: why? The Monastic Office was designed for monasteries. It requires recitation of a whopping 250 psalms a week. Believe me I’ve tried it and it is basically impossible for a layperson to pray the entire monastic office on a daily basis and have any kind of normal family and professional life. Even my abbey’s considerably lighter (150 psalms in 1 week) schema is hard work; it’s relatively easy if only read/recited because the entire breviary is only 2 volumes (however a lectionary is required for Matins), but chanted (and I love to chant the office), I need the same books as above plus a couple of house books.
If you scratch the surface of the current 4-volume Liturgy of the Hours, you’ll note it has more than a passing nod to Monastic tradition, if you avail yourself of some of the options in the General Instructions. That’s what I do (and our oblate director fully approves of oblates using the LOTH, in fact so does he when he’s out of the abbey), and I use the excellent Les Heures Grégoriennes to chant the daytime hours in Latin (I chant the Office of Readings as Vigils, in French monotone)
Feel free to PM me if you have any further questions.
C
CountrySteve
Guest
I was thinking of buying these andrewespress.com/md.html
andrewespress.com/matins.html
Whats your opinion of these?
J
jwinch2
Guest
Those are “in accordance with the Book of Common Prayer” which suggests to me that it is Anglican, not Catholic in origin.
You may consider trying this instead, if the MD is what you are after. farnboroughabbey.org/press/dirunal.php
O
OraLabora
Guest
It’s Anglican, so it wouldn’t count as liturgical prayer.
If you want something Benedictine (and also isn’t liturgical, but it’s close), and post-conciliar, there’s Benedictine Daily Prayer
There are options to flesh it out with more psalms. I have it (though I don’t use it). It’s quite good. I haven’t checked congruence with the LOTH. Presumably if an approved translation for the psalms is used and the collects, etc, follow the LOTH it might qualify as “liturgical” (or you could use it for the psalms and use LOTH for the readings, collects, etc.). It condenses the Monastic Breviary into something usable for the laity, and generally follows the Benedictine psalter but spread out and with some omissions.
I think it’s important to find balance when doing the Divine Office. I also strongly believe that if one is going to go through all that trouble, one might as well make it liturgical. So what I’ve done is put a “Benedictine” twist on the LOTH:
- I use the invitatory psalm 66 on weekdays (Ps. 66 always starts Benedictine Lauds) except if it used that day elsewhere, and I use 94 on Sundays;
- If I have time I try to do the OOR (as Vigils very early in the AM) as two nocturnes by combining weeks: e.g. week I, I use the psalms from weeks I and II; week II, from II and III; week III, from week III and IV, and week IV from week IV and I).
- After the intercessions of Lauds and Vespers, I recite the Kyrie before the Lord’s prayer (a long tradition for Benedictines), and before the collect of the minor hours and Compline, I say the Kyrie, and the Pater Noster in silence (also traditional);
- I say all three canonical minor hours on weekdays (Terce, Mid-day, and None, using the Gradual Psalms for Terce and None, one of the legitimate options in the LOTH);
- I say psalms 4, 90 and 133 at Compline every day (it’s a licit option in the LOTH, and moreover you don’t miss psalms as the other Compline psalms are duplicated elsewhere);
- At Lauds I add a verse after the Benedicamus Domino for the dead (no need to at Vespers as it’s always the last intercession);
- I add the prayer for absent “brothers” at the end (since my sons are usually away at school or work);
- Lastly, for the Office of Readings (Vigils), I use a two-year Benedictine lectionary instead of the one that comes in the 4-volume LOTH.
C
CountrySteve
Guest
Oh cool, thanks, but, is there anywhere in America that sells this?
Thanks for the info, i may end up buying that one Benedictine Daily Prayer, but when it comes to Matins(vigils) how are the readings? I currently pray the 4-volume LOTH what would be some differences?
J
jwinch2
Guest
I believe it is available on Amazon, but I could be wrong.
C
CountrySteve
Guest
It is, thanks for the info, though sadly, i don’t think they offer Benedictine Matins anywhere
O
OraLabora
Guest
I believe it follows the St John’s Abbey, Collegeville MN lectionary. Which is very different; during the week the second reading isn’t patristic, it’s biblical, except for saints and feast days.
Of course, it would be fine to use the readings from the LOTH instead.
There are actually two approved lectionaries for the biblical readings of the LOTH, the 1-year cycle that’s in the 4-volume and a 2-year cycle (that the abbey I’m associated with uses); if you look in the LOTH, the references for those readings are included.
For the second reading (patristic or hagiographic) there’s a bit more flexibility allowed. Monasteries tend to draw heavily on more monastic sources than the LOTH. Our abbey uses a Solesmes lectionary.
J
jwinch2
Guest
Right now, I am just using the LOTH, via Divine Office.org and that suits me pretty well. When I am able to get more hours in the day on a consistent basis and get more of the long list books I have read, then I will see about adding in a longer version of the LOTH.
Its also worth noting that there are abbreviated versions of a form of the Monastic Office in books like the Benedictine Handbook or the Manual for Oblates of St. Benedict. However, as you have noted earlier, they are probably not considered Liturgical.
I believe the Monks of St. Meinrad Abbey also put together a version of their Divine Office for their Oblates, which seems to have been adopted in some way by the Oblates of Belmont Abbey in NC.
store.saintmeinrad.edu/product_info.php?products_id=36
They also have two other books that look quite good and perhaps worth picking up.
store.saintmeinrad.edu/product_info.php?products_id=164
store.saintmeinrad.edu/product_info.php?products_id=194
O
OraLabora
Guest
Our abbey also has an “oblate breviary”. It is based on Monastic Schema B but only includes Lauds, Vespers and Compline and while the sanctoral observes all saints on the (Benedictine) calendar, for memorials usually only the final collect. It’s in French.
O
OraLabora
Guest
Careful here. Most Benedictines today do not use the Monastic Diurnal (which BTW to be liturgical needs to be prayed in Latin). The MD is pre-Vatican II. Most monasteries now use the OF Mass and therefore will use a post-Vatican II office consistent with the OF Mass.
The original formula of St. Benedict has been adapted post-Vatican II (it’s now called Monastic schema A) but in my experience only a minority still use it because it is very heavy (with Matins, 250 psalms per week! and LOTS of repeated psalms). I know of 3 off the top of my head. Our abbey uses monastic schema B (150 psalms a week) which is consistent with the Rule of St. Benedict which says that if any abbey is displeased with his schema they are free to adopt another as long as the entire psalter is prayed in a week.
The reality then, is that many monasteries do come up with their own schemas, or use one of the 4 documented Benedictine schemas (A- of St Benedict, B-150 psalms per week, C- and D-, two week cycle).
There are some monasteries that use the EF Mass and hence the pre-Vatican II Breviarium Monasticum on which the MD is based, but the vast majority use the OF, and Benedictines are fantastic liturgists. You would never catch a monastery being inconsistent by using a pre-Vatican II Office with the OF Mass because the Mass, and the Office are actually only one liturgy (of which the Mass is the summit).
J
jwinch2
Guest
E
elizaveta01
Guest
Not sure if anyone is keeping up with this thread, but here goes.
The Farnborough MD is available from Clear Creek Monastery in OK. You can purchase it online from their website.
They also publish a Latin / English version of Matins that you can get through Lulu. It has the same Psalter Schema as the MD from Farnborough. It only has the 4 week psalter, so you won’t have the Feasts, but it works well for regular days.
I’d avoid the Lawerence Andrewes Press books for the most part. First they are Anglican which means that you aren’t really praying with the Church when you use them. Also I’ve heard that their binding quality is really poor these days. And that they don’t stand behind their products.
The Farnborough MD is available from Clear Creek Monastery in OK. You can purchase it online from their website.
They also publish a Latin / English version of Matins that you can get through Lulu. It has the same Psalter Schema as the MD from Farnborough. It only has the 4 week psalter, so you won’t have the Feasts, but it works well for regular days.
I’d avoid the Lawerence Andrewes Press books for the most part. First they are Anglican which means that you aren’t really praying with the Church when you use them. Also I’ve heard that their binding quality is really poor these days. And that they don’t stand behind their products.
- Status