Benedictine Oblate #2

  • Thread starter Thread starter Luigi_Daniele
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I have a lot to learn about the various secular orders. It has been an interesting process thus far.
 
Tampa_Dave said:
I have a lot to learn about the various secular orders. It has been an interesting process thus far.
Click to expand...
To be clear Oblates are different than the other secular/third orders. We are attached to a monastery specifically.
 
I understand the required affiliation with a particular Benedictine monastery. The ‘stability’ requirement actually makes me lean toward becoming an oblate with St. Leo Abbey. I have yet to explore the Franciscans and Dominicans thoroughly, but I’m very impressed with what I’ve learned about the Benedictines. The “Watchmen if the Night” film was, of course, very inspiring. I bought several recommended books about secular orders and I just yesterday ordered “The Benedictine Order in the United States (An Interpretive History)”, a 304 page book by Father Joel Rippinger, O.S.B. (1990). It was a $19.95 paperback reduced to $4.99 - shipping costs were more expensive than the book.
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
You can no longer belong to both, I believe.

Interestingly enough a famous Secular Franciscan (St Thomas More) was also an Oblate and a famous Oblate, as a matter of fact the Patroness of all Benedictine Oblates, although she was an olivetan Benedictine Oblate (like me 😃 ), Francesca Romana was also an OFS.
Click to expand...
You can’t belong to more than one third order or religious family at a time. I believe this was always the case, but formation wasn’t so good before 1978 so maybe some people didn’t know this.

However, in 1978, our rule was revised and we obtained new General Constitutions in the year 2000, which have been binding since then. The bit about belonging to two religious families is in the General Constitutions of the Secular Franciscan Order, Article 2, Paragraph 1:

“1. The vocation to the SFO is a specific vocation that gives form to the life and apostolic activity of its members. Therefore, those who are bound by perpetual commitment to another religious family or institute of consecrated life cannot belong to the SFO.”

Notice that it doesn’t say “third order.” It says “religious family.”

The Secular Discalced Carmelites (OCDS) also restrict membership of their members to themselves, as do the Dominicans (OPL) and the Servites (SOSM). I believe the Carmelites of the Ancient Observance (TOC) are not as likely to do so, and it looks as though the Benedictine Oblates are not as restrictive as well. I"m not sure about the Trinitarian Laity, Lay Augustinians or Lay Norbertines.

If a person belongs to say, the Servites and the Carmelites of the Ancient Observance (TOC), for instance, the problem isn’t the TOCs in that case because they don’t specify anything about dual membership, it’s the Servites who are likely to object because it’s specified in their rule or constitutions that you can’t be a Servite AND something else at the same time.
 
Given the seriousness of the commitment to a secular order, I believe one such affiliation per lifetime is sufficient. I just have to decide which one … and hope they agree to accept me!
 
No rush, Luigi. I take lifetime commitments seriously, so I will take whatever time is necessary. I am anxious to begin the discernment process, however, so I better finish reading the volume of information I’ve received from Amazon. A few phone calls, a visit or two, then I should be ready to begin the process.
 
The majority of my books on Catholicism are obviously unrelated to the study of monastic orders. For example, I recently ordered “Catholic Matters: Confusion, Controversy and the Splendor of Truth” and “On Being Catholic”. Many pertain to traditional or orthodox Catholicism. With specific regard to investigating secular orders, I own the books listed below:
  • To Live As Francis Lived: A Guide for Secular Franciscans (The Path of Franciscan Spirituality)
  • How to Be a Monastic and Not Leave Your Day Job: An Invitation to Oblate Life (Voices from the Monastery)
  • New Wine of Dominican Spirituality: A Drink Called Happiness
  • The View from a Monastery: The Vowed Life and Its Cast of Many Characters
  • Finding Sanctuary: Monastic Steps for Everyday Life
  • The Benedictine Order in the United States - An Interpretive History
  • Man of Blessing: A Life of St. Benedict (pending order)
  • Francis of Assisi: A New Biography (pending order)
  • The Life of St. Dominic (pending order)
  • Lectio Divina–The Sacred Art: Transforming Words and Images into Heart-centered Prayer (thinking of ordering this one)
  • Dominican Life: A Commentary on the Rule of Saint Augustine (thinking of this one too)
I realize these books cannot be described as heavy lifting by any means. I ordered them for informational purposes to acquaint myself with St. Dominic, St. Benedict and St. Francis, monastic life, and the governing philosophy of each secular order. Clearly, there are many tomes out there of greater academic value than my selections.
 
I hope I haven’t embarrassed myself with my collection of books on monastic orders. Once I’m generally acquainted with the subject matter and had a few exchanges with members of the various secular fraternities, I will certainly delve into books of greater academic import.

I plan to meet with Benedictine oblates at Saint Benedict Monastery (Bristow, VA) and lay members of the Holy Family Fraternity of the Secular Franciscan Order (Manassas, VA). I have not identified a specific group of lay Dominicans yet. Before I initiate any visits, however, I will wait for promised materials and a phone call from the head of the Benedictine oblates at St. Leo Abbey.

I am very open to suggestions by people familiar with the respective orders and the discernment process. This includes references to scholarly books that might aid in my fledgling search.
 
Tampa_Dave said:
I hope I haven’t embarrassed myself with my collection of books on monastic orders. Once I’m generally acquainted with the subject matter and had a few exchanges with members of the various secular fraternities, I will certainly delve into books of greater academic import.

I plan to meet with Benedictine oblates at Saint Benedict Monastery (Bristow, VA) and lay members of the Holy Family Fraternity of the Secular Franciscan Order (Manassas, VA). I have not identified a specific group of lay Dominicans yet. Before I initiate any visits, however, I will wait for promised materials and a phone call from the head of the Benedictine oblates at St. Leo Abbey.

I am very open to suggestions by people familiar with the respective orders and the discernment process. This includes references to scholarly books that might aid in my fledgling search.
Click to expand...
Not at all. I’m wanting to read that new life of St. Francis myself and I’ve read a lot of Franciscan books. Interestingly enough, this new one is by a scholarly Dominican, and it’s supposed to be very good.

I don’t know much about Benedictines. The books you have on that way of life sound very interesting.

I don’t know if you’re interested in this or not, but there are also the Carmelites, and you can buy books from them at the Institute of Carmelite Studies: icspublications.org/
 
Thank you, iloveangels.

The book on Francis intrigued me. From the editorial review: “Francis of Assisi: A New Biography is divided into two complementary parts-a stand alone biographical narrative and a close, annotated examination of the historical sources about Francis. Taken together, the narrative and the survey of the sources provide a much-needed fresh perspective on this iconic figure.” I was a History major in college, so the author’s approach seemed quite interesting.

I may look into the Carmelites. Just offhand, I lack sufficient information to comment appropriately. Good suggestion.
 
iloveangels,

I looked at the Carmelite website at ocarm.org. I found the information below.

What is the difference between “Lay Carmelites” and “Secular Carmelites”?
Subsequent to the reform of St. Teresa of Avila, the family of Carmel became, as it were, two “traditions” of Carmel – each with their First, Second and Third Order components. Those who remained with the original component have become known as the “O.Carm.s” (Order of Carmelites – Calced), and those who became part of the Teresian reform became known as the O.C.D.s (Order of Discalced Carmelites). Lay people in the O.Carm.s. have become known as T.O.C.s or T.O.Carm.s. (Third Order Carmelites) – i.e. Lay Carmelites, and those with the O.C.D.s have become known as O.C.D.s members – i.e. Secular Carmelites. The actual time-line of formation for both has become quite similar. However, one major difference would be that early formation for O.C.D.s members in many places gives heavy emphasis on St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross, while T.O.Carm.s. may provide more broadly based information about Carmel and wait until after profession to delve deeper into St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross. Both are organized into local communities – or chapters, and (primarily for meetings) wear a similar 6” x 8” brown wool cloth scapular. Organizationally they are much the same. The daily prayer life of both T.O.C. and O.C.D.s Carmelites has become much the same, with heavy emphasis on the Liturgy of the Hours, daily meditation, participation in the Eucharistic celebration, etc. The reasons why one would choose the Lay Carmelites (TOC) or the Secular Carmelites (OCDs) is usually a matter of first exposure, whether or not there is a local community/chapter where they live, how they might relate to a local community, etc.

Now I’m confused. Is there any real or practical difference between TOC and OCD? Then I saw information on the Scapular Confraternity of Carmel. I have a particularly strong devotion to Mary, so I must say the Carmelites are undoubtedly similar in that respect. Any thoughts?

In layman terms, please…
 
Tampa_Dave said:
iloveangels,

I looked at the Carmelite website at ocarm.org. I found the information below.

What is the difference between “Lay Carmelites” and “Secular Carmelites”?
Subsequent to the reform of St. Teresa of Avila, the family of Carmel became, as it were, two “traditions” of Carmel – each with their First, Second and Third Order components. Those who remained with the original component have become known as the “O.Carm.s” (Order of Carmelites – Calced), and those who became part of the Teresian reform became known as the O.C.D.s (Order of Discalced Carmelites). Lay people in the O.Carm.s. have become known as T.O.C.s or T.O.Carm.s. (Third Order Carmelites) – i.e. Lay Carmelites, and those with the O.C.D.s have become known as O.C.D.s members – i.e. Secular Carmelites. The actual time-line of formation for both has become quite similar. However, one major difference would be that early formation for O.C.D.s members in many places gives heavy emphasis on St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross, while T.O.Carm.s. may provide more broadly based information about Carmel and wait until after profession to delve deeper into St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross. Both are organized into local communities – or chapters, and (primarily for meetings) wear a similar 6” x 8” brown wool cloth scapular. Organizationally they are much the same. The daily prayer life of both T.O.C. and O.C.D.s Carmelites has become much the same, with heavy emphasis on the Liturgy of the Hours, daily meditation, participation in the Eucharistic celebration, etc. The reasons why one would choose the Lay Carmelites (TOC) or the Secular Carmelites (OCDs) is usually a matter of first exposure, whether or not there is a local community/chapter where they live, how they might relate to a local community, etc.

Now I’m confused. Is there any real or practical difference between TOC and OCD? Then I saw information on the Scapular Confraternity of Carmel. I have a particularly strong devotion to Mary, so I must say the Carmelites are undoubtedly similar in that respect. Any thoughts?

In layman terms, please…
Click to expand...
Yes, there is a difference.

The TOC are the third order of the Carmelites of the Ancient Observance, founded in the 13th Century.

The OCDS are the third order of the Discalced Carmelites, which was a reform of the Carmelites of the Ancient Observance. This reform was led by St. Teresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross in the 16th century.

There have been reform movements in all of the ancient orders, save maybe the Dominicans. Not sure about them.

Actually you may know that the Franiscan friars come in different “flavors,” OFM, Capuchin etc. These different branches are also consequences of reform movements. A pretty common thing in the old medieval orders.

Practical differences between TOC & OCDS: The formation period for the OCDS is longer, I believe, and they are more strict than the TOC about joining other groups and so on. Other than that, they work together and the focus is similar, even if not exactly the same. Both are quite Marian in outlook also.

OH, and be careful here. There are confraternities organized around the scapular but they aren’t third orders at all. This often confuses people. There are a lot of organizations out there that look something like third orders that aren’t third orders at all.
 
The Carmelites, both kinds, are among the most Marian-focused of the old medieval orders.

There is also this: marymediatrix.com/religious-life/third-order.html
This is the third order of the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate, founded after the example of St. Maximilian Kolbe. It’s a new group, but growing and already it has Pontifical Approval.

There are also third order Servites, another medieval order, but there aren’t very many of them. You almost have to live in a certain part of the country to belong. But they’re also very Marian in focus in a lovely big old generous way, as is sometimes found in the medieval orders. Their webpage is:
servite.org/About/servite-secular-order.aspx
 
Tampa_Dave said:
I hope I haven’t embarrassed myself with my collection of books on monastic orders. Once I’m generally acquainted with the subject matter and had a few exchanges with members of the various secular fraternities, I will certainly delve into books of greater academic import.
Click to expand...
Not at all. The only thing I might recommend off the top of my head is a good commentary on the Holy Rule. The books you have chosen on Dominicans are a good choice, and I cannot speak for the books on the Franciscans.

Peace,
 
Jason,

I am not sure whether to get a book limited to the strict wording of the Rule of St. Benedict, or one which provides scholarly commentary. I lean to the latter because I am such a neophyte to the world of monastic orders.

Any suggestions?
 
iloveangels,

I’m floored by your wealth of information. The Carmelite focus on Mary is quite appealing (the Memorare is my favorite prayer of intercession). Speaking from a practical standpoint, which Carmelite order offers laity greatest access for participation in monastic life? It does me no good to consider orders lacking fraternal chapters in my immediate area regardless of doctrinal appeal. Long distance membership may defeat, or minimally detract from, the very purpose of monastic affiliation. Notably, I live in Northern Virginia just outside Washington, DC, but I’m relocating to the Florida Gulf Coast by mid 2014. This certainly complicates the selection process.

The Franciscan Tertiaries of the Immaculate note that “only in the Immaculate does the Franciscan life come to the height of its perfection and enable one to attain the maximum conformity to Jesus, who is our whole sanctity (cf. Rom. 8:29).” Further, the Order professes that, with respect to tertiaries,"*t is enough that you want to live a more perfect, more Christ-like life, a life totally consecrated to our Lady. The Marian focus combined with Franciscan ideals is very powerful. Sadly, they only have four communities in the New England area.

For me, the Benedictines offer practical physical accessibility to the monastic life. Generally speaking, Marion adoration and fidelity to the Magisterium appear to be significant elements of Benedictine spirituality. That is why I’m focused on exploring the offerings of St. Leo Abbey. And I have yet to fully consider the viability and appeal of the Franciscans and Dominicans.*
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top