Benedictine Oblate #2

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For what its worth, my wife is perfectly normal person and Charismatic Catholic by choice. That’s why she attends St. Mary’s and I attend St. Andrew’s (Latin Mass, conservative parish, Opus Dei site for evenings of recollection). The Pope says both styles are fine, so it works for me. Same thing with the Benedictines, I guess.

As for the DeCarlo brothers, I always thought Luigi got the better name. Patsy is a tough name for a guy.
 
Tampa_Dave said:
For what its worth, my wife is perfectly normal person and Charismatic Catholic by choice. That’s why she attends St. Mary’s and I attend St. Andrew’s (Latin Mass, conservative parish, Opus Dei site for evenings of recollection). The Pope says both styles are fine, so it works for me. Same thing with the Benedictines, I guess.

As for the DeCarlo brothers, I always thought Luigi got the better name. Patsy is a tough name for a guy.
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Patsy is a guy?:eek:

Must be Patrizio. Wonder why he didn’t just go by that?:eek:
 
Tampa_Dave said:
For what its worth, my wife is perfectly normal person and Charismatic Catholic by choice. That’s why she attends St. Mary’s and I attend St. Andrew’s (Latin Mass, conservative parish, Opus Dei site for evenings of recollection). The Pope says both styles are fine, so it works for me. Same thing with the Benedictines, I guess.
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I am with you in general regarding the Charismatic movement. As long as the Holy Father is cool with it, I am as well. Its not my cup of tea, but then again, it doesn’t need to be.

As for the Benedictines, I do question the relationship. To date, I have seen nothing at all which suggests that the style of worship and prayer employed by Charismatics has a legitimate place in Monastic, and in particular, Benedictine spirituality. Admittedly, I have not looked into this a great deal but so far, I cannot find anything in the writings of early Benedictines, the Desert Fathers and Mothers, monastics such as St. John Cassian or even back to Evagrius Ponticus which seem to support that idea. Ponticus goes so far to caution against the use of normal prayer posture and actions of his time such as repeated genuflections or prostrations, standing facing the East with ones head up and arms raised, what he refers to as ejaculatory prayer, etc., while in public because they were not appropriate for that setting. Because of that, I do have some concerns about mixing those two approaches.

Lou and I have discussed this previously and I know that while he does not seem cracked up about it, it is less of a concern for him. So, my personal opinions aside, as long as he is good to go, I am good to go.

That probably won’t stop me from offering my thoughts on the subject though if it continues to arise. But then again, you all knew that already… 😃

Peace,
 
jwinch2 said:
I am with you in general regarding the Charismatic movement. As long as the Holy Father is cool with it, I am as well. Its not my cup of tea, but then again, it doesn’t need to be.

As for the Benedictines, I do question the relationship. To date, I have seen nothing at all which suggests that the style of worship and prayer employed by Charismatics has a legitimate place in Monastic, and in particular, Benedictine spirituality. Admittedly, I have not looked into this a great deal but so far, I cannot find anything in the writings of early Benedictines, the Desert Fathers and Mothers, monastics such as St. John Cassian or even back to Evagrius Ponticus which seem to support that idea. Because of that, I do have some concerns about mixing those two approaches.

Lou and I have discussed this previously and I know that while he does not seem cracked up about it, it is less of a concern for him. So, my personal opinions aside, as long as he is good to go, I am good to go.

That probably won’t stop me from offering my thoughts on the subject though if it continues to arise. But then again, you all knew that already… 😃

Peace,
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😃

To be clear, “my” monks are olivetan Benedictines. I know of at least one other of their monasteries that has a charismatic flavor.

I guess I should describe it. Meetings start at 1:30PM. Usually they are over by 3:45 or 4. At the end, there is a blessing with holy oil by either Father (if he is there) or by our minister. Some fainting. The whole blessing/fainting is usually 10 minutes, tops. These are very holy people, so I figure as I am certainly not holy, who am I to say? Not my cup of tea (well, OK, vino 😃 ), but harmless, so I can hang with it. 🙂
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
Yessir. 🙂
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That whole place is a bit odd. I looked into them fairly closely because it is within reasonable distance from where I live. They classify themselves as a “double” monastery, meaning that they have sisters living in the same compound as the monks do. They don’t share the same building or quarters obviously, but they are in the same place. The sisters had some problems a while back because it turned out that they were not really sisters. They had never gone through formation of any kind, they just up and started calling themselves Olivetan Benedictine Sisters. When the Holy See discovered this, they were required to present themselves for proper formation at one of a few different places. Several of the sisters refused and it created a bit thing. I posted some links to articles about the situation a while back. Pretty crazy. They have some other issues such as the incorporation of Jungian practice and far eastern mysticism into their regular practice and have been known to dissent from Church teaching on central issues such as the Sacrament of Holy Orders and disciplines such as priestly celibacy.

I don’t know how any of that affected the monks who live there or how much of that they knew about the situation with the sisters, but I wouldn’t remotely consider affiliation with that monastery until I knew that things had changed dramatically with that, and the other issues I mentioned.

Actually, the whole Benedictine scene in New Mexico is a bit odd. You have the above mentioned Our Lady of Guadalupe at Pecos. Then, you have Christ in the Desert, which is interesting. Nothing wacky that I am aware of, just seems a bit different than other monasteries. Finally, you have a SSPX Benedictine Monastery, which is also named Our Lady of Guadalupe, as well.
 
jwinch2 said:
That whole place is a bit odd. I looked into them fairly closely because it is within reasonable distance from where I live. They classify themselves as a “double” monastery, meaning that they have sisters living in the same compound as the monks do. They don’t share the same building or quarters obviously, but they are in the same place. The sisters had some problems a while back because it turned out that they were not really sisters. They had never gone through formation of any kind, they just up and started calling themselves Olivetan Benedictine Sisters. When the Holy See discovered this, they were required to present themselves for proper formation at one of a few different places. Several of the sisters refused and it created a bit thing. I posted some links to articles about the situation a while back. Pretty crazy. They have some other issues such as the incorporation of Jungian practice and far eastern mysticism into their regular practice and have been known to dissent from Church teaching on central issues such as the Sacrament of Holy Orders and disciplines such as priestly celibacy.

I don’t know how any of that affected the monks who live there or how much of that they knew about the situation with the sisters, but I wouldn’t remotely consider affiliation with that monastery until I knew that things had changed dramatically with that, and the other issues I mentioned.

Actually, the whole Benedictine scene in New Mexico is a bit odd. You have the above mentioned Our Lady of Guadalupe at Pecos. Then, you have Christ in the Desert, which is interesting. Nothing wacky that I am aware of, just seems a bit different than other monasteries. Finally, you have a SSPX Benedictine Monastery, which is also named Our Lady of Guadalupe, as well.
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Interesting.:eek:

My monks’ Mass is one of the most beautiful Masses that I have ever assisted at. The surroundings are fairly spartan, but beautiful. Love just oozes out of these monks, and the homilies that I have heard are all very “in line with the Church”. I know that my monks left NM (including oddly the abbot, who became our abbot). Saintly orthodox men, all of them. 🙂
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
Patsy is a guy?:eek:

Must be Patrizio. Wonder why he didn’t just go by that?:eek:
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To be honest, I don’t know if Patrizio was his full name or not. He went by Patsy which was probably short for another name. I’m positive it wasn’t a nickname like shorty, or butch, etc. I never asked during all those years. Of course, I know a guy named Shelley - he plays left field for the Cleveland Indians.

My next door neighbor was named Dominic Terriaco. His family called him Mimo [sic], pronounced meemo.
 
I accept the Pope’s blessing on the charismatic movement. He is the Pope, right? But for the life of me, I could never figure out why. Still can’t.
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
Interesting.:eek:
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I thought so for sure. If things with SSPX work out for them to come back into the fold, I hope that the religious who have chosen that route will come back with them. However, that will be very tricky as I do not see the Holy Father trying to force religious orders to accept people back into the fold. The OSB and Franciscans may do it out of sheer love for the Pope and obedience, but it could get a bit dicey.
My monks’ Mass is one of the most beautiful Masses that I have ever assisted at. The surroundings are fairly spartan, but beautiful. Love just oozes out of these monks, and the homilies that I have heard are all very “in line with the Church”. I know that my monks left NM (including oddly the abbot, who became our abbot). Saintly orthodox men, all of them. 🙂
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I know you wouldn’t affiliate with monks who were not faithful and orthodox in their teachings. Its one of the things we had in common right away and why I asked you to start chiming in to on the Dominican Laity thread when I started feeling the call towards Oblation.

Peace,
 
Tampa_Dave said:
To be honest, I don’t know if Patrizio was his full name or not. He went by Patsy which was probably short for another name. I’m positive it wasn’t a nickname like shorty, or butch, etc. I never asked during all those years. Of course, I know a guy named Shelley - he plays left field for the Cleveland Indians.

My next door neighbor was named Dominic Terriaco. His family called him Mimo [sic], pronounced meemo.
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Yup. In Italian, names are shortened differently. Luigi’s nickname version is not Lui, but Gino (usually). Alessandro is not usually Ale, but Sandro.

For example 🙂
 
jwinch2 said:
I thought so for sure. If things with SSPX work out for them to come back into the fold, I hope that the religious who have chosen that route will come back with them. However, that will be very tricky as I do not see the Holy Father trying to force religious orders to accept people back into the fold. The OSB and Franciscans may do it out of sheer love for the Pope and obedience, but it could get a bit dicey.

I know you wouldn’t affiliate with monks who were not faithful and orthodox in their teachings. Its one of the things we had in common right away and why I asked you to start chiming in to on the Dominican Laity thread when I started feeling the call towards Oblation.

Peace,
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The esteem runs in both directions, sir. 👍🙂
 
I just started reading a new book last night.

Commentary for Benedictine Oblates: On the Rule of St. Benedict by G. A. Simon & Leonard J. Doyle. It was written in the late 1950’s and comes recommended on the websites of some very traditional monasteries which suggests, to me, that it will be a very traditional approach to interpreting the Rule for Oblates. The book was written and translated by two Oblates, one a priest and the other a layperson, and has both the Nihil Obstat and Impramatur.

So far, I have only gotten into the introduction which consists of a history of Oblates affiliated with the Order of Saint Benedict. The history is very interesting. The commentary on the Rule itself seems to be broken into a 4 months cycle for daily reading of the Rule along with commentary and then an “application” section which suggests ways of living the Oblate Life in the secular world.

More later when I read the rest of the book, in about 4 months. 😉
 
Jason, that book is a gem … it’s probably my favorite book out there on the Holy Rule. 🙂
 
mylo said:
Jason, that book is a gem … it’s probably my favorite book out there on the Holy Rule. 🙂
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Good to hear! I appreciate the endorsement. I’m trying to decide if I will just read it straight through or do it as a daily meditation on the Rule as the authors intended.
 
jwinch2 said:
I just started reading a new book last night.

Commentary for Benedictine Oblates: On the Rule of St. Benedict by G. A. Simon & Leonard J. Doyle. It was written in the late 1950’s and comes recommended on the websites of some very traditional monasteries which suggests, to me, that it will be a very traditional approach to interpreting the Rule for Oblates. The book was written and translated by two Oblates, one a priest and the other a layperson, and has both the Nihil Obstat and Impramatur.

So far, I have only gotten into the introduction which consists of a history of Oblates affiliated with the Order of Saint Benedict. The history is very interesting. The commentary on the Rule itself seems to be broken into a 4 months cycle for daily reading of the Rule along with commentary and then an “application” section which suggests ways of living the Oblate Life in the secular world.

More later when I read the rest of the book, in about 4 months. 😉
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The translation of the Rule that I use is Leonard Doyle’s. It is by far my favorite.
 
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