Best and worst congregational singing

[hn160]

Of the various denominations, I think that the Lutherans have the best criteria for hymns that can be sung in church.
Criteria For Lutheran Hymns

1. A Lutheran hymn is congruent with Biblical doctrine.
2. A Lutheran hymn Sims Not to create the right atmosphere or mood for worship, but serves as a vehicle for the Spirit-filled Word of God.
3. A Lutheran hymn is Not entertainment but proclamation.
4. A Lutheran hymn is shaped by theology of the cross.
5. A Lutheran hymn is Not bound merely to paraphrase the Biblical Text; rather, it interprets the Scripture in reference to Christ.
6. A Lutheran hymn is bound to nö culture save the culture of the Church catholic.

 

[4Squarebaby]

Me too, but can you dance to it?

4Squarebaby, please don’t take offense. I’m just teasing, and in many ways, it is more joking about Lutherans than you. I suspect most Lutherans would be scandalized by dancing during Divine Worship.

Jon

No problem, I understood. But then I have heard jokes about Hugh Hewitt’s Presbyterian norms being the same, yet in areas with a different ethnic mix the local congregation doesn’t seem anything like what Dennis Prager and Hewitt joke about. I believe there are different national norms governing how we interact with each other. From the use of titles and names to our singing, and dancing in public.

Which reminds me I saw an unidentified choir on YouTube and in the comments for fun people were identifying the choir as “ours” among the organizations were the AME, COGIC and Missionary Baptist and about the only way to get a further clue would be to see how the senior pastor and deacons were dressed or where they were sitting.

 

[Softly]

Best I’ve heard is Ukrainian Catholic. The entire congregation sang the responses and hymns in harmony. Wow!

 

[KathleenGee]

As far as going around, I was very taken by the deep heart felt singing by the Lutherans next door here in Northwest. In my readings about Luther, he wanted a more animated congregation…which was what we were hearing after Vatican II at liturgy.

But now I don’t know…they are saying we need to return more to Christ as focus rather than the congregation…talk from Rome…

People should check out EWTN as they are having many things on Catholic history that touch on a number of questions and comments coming out now on non-Catholic forum.

 

[Doxiemom]

My church. We are so bad that we no longer sing at the 7:30 am Mass. Just too much for the soul to bear.

 

[JonNC]

As far as going around, I was very taken by the deep heart felt singing by the Lutherans next door here in Northwest. In my readings about Luther, he wanted a more animated congregation…which was what we were hearing after Vatican II at liturgy.

But now I don’t know…they are saying we need to return more to Christ as focus rather than the congregation…talk from Rome…

People should check out EWTN as they are having many things on Catholic history that touch on a number of questions and comments coming out now on non-Catholic forum.

Kathleen,
First, thank you for the kind words you expressed about the Lutherans in your area.

However, please don’t mistake Luher’s desire to include an expanded role for music in worship with a desire to place the attention or focus on worship on the congregation. Probably a rather distinctive factor in Lutheran hymnody is its focus on doctrine and the cross, what God has done as opposed to what we do. This is why you will not (should not) find very much modern American evangelical type music in our worship if it focuses on what we do, what the congregation does.

Jon

 

[KathleenGee]

Compreendo…

Luther was wanting to pull the laity out of its passivity due to excessive clericalism.

Likewise, most Catholics do not know the Mass outside of the Liturgy of the Word and Eucharist.

 

[JonNC]

=KathleenGee;10461979]Compreendo…

Thanks.

Luther was wanting to pull the laity out of its passivity due to excessive clericalism.

Probably true.

Likewise, most Catholics do not know the Mass outside of the Liturgy of the Word and Eucharist.

Lutherans, too, though some of us still neglect the liturgy of the sacrament every other week.

Jon

 

[Indifferently]

Thanks.

Probably true.

Lutherans, too, though some of us still neglect the liturgy of the sacrament every other week.

Jon

Hi Jon, do Lutherans use Anglican hymns too? Just wondering - I know Lutherans have an extensive hymnody of their own!

 

[JonNC]

Hi Jon, do Lutherans use Anglican hymns too? Just wondering - I know Lutherans have an extensive hymnody of their own!

Oh yes! “The Church’s One Foundation” was one of my dad’s favorites (he was a Lutheran pastor). Perhaps my favorite is “For All Thy Saints”. There are many more. The key is do they reflect true doctrine from a Lutheran perspective. the similarities between Lutherans and Anglicans is often apparent, and this is reflected in hymnody.

Jon

 

[Indifferently]

Oh yes! “The Church’s One Foundation” was one of my dad’s favorites (he was a Lutheran pastor). Perhaps my favorite is “For All Thy Saints”. There are many more. The key is do they reflect true doctrine from a Lutheran perspective. the similarities between Lutherans and Anglicans is often apparent, and this is reflected in hymnody.

Jon

That’s lovely to hear.

 

[KathleenGee]

Hn160…thanks for your post in clarifying the Lutheran position on voice.

Vatican II was calling us out to more participation. But I think for me it primarily means…

What is the Mass and what happens at Mass…Fr Jeremy Driscoll, from Oregon now in Rome, wrote a booklet about this, ‘What Happens at Mass’.

The issue with Catholicism/Orthodoxy is that Jesus Christ is now fully present to us: Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity so it puts us more into a receptive and quiet posture of adoration. I know there are complaints about the placement of the Sign of Peace, where we make peace with our brethren by shaking hands…but it is right before Communion and many want to prepare in recollection to receive more deeply.

I think there will be a number of issues being brought up eventually in the Liturgy. I am pastoral and don’t complain, but I privately would prefer to see the return of the communion rail…which was never dictated to remove…and that woman be veiled at Mass, just like the norm at the Vatican. At Mass, the Psalms, put into the Mass by Pope Justinian in the mid 200’s, is put into song and I participate in it, finding it not going against my own need for recollection.

 

[Sarcelle]

By denomination, particular group of people, etc, who are the best and worst congregational participants? This is just for fun!

To my mind the best I have heard are largely African descended Methodist congregations. The worst is routinely from Ireland and Irish immigrant communities, but I suppose that is what hundreds of years of clandestine Masses will do. They just don’t sing at all.

To me the best congregational singing is the a capella Church of Christ. Every Church of Christ member I have met can sing, I mean, really sing. If you have to learn the song without instrumental support you really learn the song.