J
Jehuty_X
Guest
// the numbering in job from the new american bible are a mess…job 15 after verse 29, job 24 after verse 20, job 26 after verse 11, job 28, etc…
- Status
R
rbrtncl
Guest
J
Jerry_Parker
Guest
Jehuty X and Dan 86,
You had written:
Re: Best catholic Bible version to read?
Dan:* I like the Douay-Rheims. The Jerusalem Bible and NRSV:CE are okay. The NAB is awful. Many verses have been removed from the NAB. Here are some examples: Matt 18:11,23:14; Mark 9:44,46; 11:26, 15:28; Luke 17:36, 23:17; Acts 15:34, 23:24,7; 28:29; 1 John 5:7.
Jehuty: The numbering in job from the new american bible are a mess…job 15 after verse 29, job 24 after verse 20, job 26 after verse 11, job 28, etc.*
The matter of missing verses in the New Testament is due to what I have referred to in my own prior messages as the corrupt underlying Greek text (one or another of the called “Critical Text” Greek editions of the N.T.) that modern translators prefer to use over the more solidly established and anchored Received (Byzantine, Majority, Ecclesiastical) Text based on the majority of manuscript readings, of which most are every bit as ancient as the shorter Greek texts that form the basis, variously, of “Critical Texts” (U.B.S., Nestle-Aland, others) which translators since the end of the 19th century to present have tended to prefer to use as the basis of their translations.
There are variances in numbering verses, even chapters, that can be a bit disconcerting, but a lot of this simply carries over from the divergences of numberings in the Septuagint and Vulgate Greek and Latin Old Testaments, on the one hand, and the Hebrew Masoretic Text O.T., on the other. Often, when one “gets straightened out” about these differences in numberings, one finds that most chapters and verses are accounted for in the Old Testament of English Bibles translated from their various sources.
It is, rather, in the N.T. where corruption in aberrent manuscripts especially accounts for omissions, even when N.T. verse numberings are carried over from those of Bibles translated from Greek or the Latin Vulgate.
As for the New American Bible, in particular, it is “awful”, truly dreadful, partly because of the corrupt underlying base of its N.T. and partly from the “tin ear” of the translators, whose wording is crude, banal, and ugly, especially when compared to the Douay-Rheims-Challoner version and the Jerusalem and New Jerusalem versions, so much more elegantly worded in English than the N.A.B.
Jerry Parker
You had written:
Re: Best catholic Bible version to read?
Dan:* I like the Douay-Rheims. The Jerusalem Bible and NRSV:CE are okay. The NAB is awful. Many verses have been removed from the NAB. Here are some examples: Matt 18:11,23:14; Mark 9:44,46; 11:26, 15:28; Luke 17:36, 23:17; Acts 15:34, 23:24,7; 28:29; 1 John 5:7.
Jehuty: The numbering in job from the new american bible are a mess…job 15 after verse 29, job 24 after verse 20, job 26 after verse 11, job 28, etc.*
The matter of missing verses in the New Testament is due to what I have referred to in my own prior messages as the corrupt underlying Greek text (one or another of the called “Critical Text” Greek editions of the N.T.) that modern translators prefer to use over the more solidly established and anchored Received (Byzantine, Majority, Ecclesiastical) Text based on the majority of manuscript readings, of which most are every bit as ancient as the shorter Greek texts that form the basis, variously, of “Critical Texts” (U.B.S., Nestle-Aland, others) which translators since the end of the 19th century to present have tended to prefer to use as the basis of their translations.
There are variances in numbering verses, even chapters, that can be a bit disconcerting, but a lot of this simply carries over from the divergences of numberings in the Septuagint and Vulgate Greek and Latin Old Testaments, on the one hand, and the Hebrew Masoretic Text O.T., on the other. Often, when one “gets straightened out” about these differences in numberings, one finds that most chapters and verses are accounted for in the Old Testament of English Bibles translated from their various sources.
It is, rather, in the N.T. where corruption in aberrent manuscripts especially accounts for omissions, even when N.T. verse numberings are carried over from those of Bibles translated from Greek or the Latin Vulgate.
As for the New American Bible, in particular, it is “awful”, truly dreadful, partly because of the corrupt underlying base of its N.T. and partly from the “tin ear” of the translators, whose wording is crude, banal, and ugly, especially when compared to the Douay-Rheims-Challoner version and the Jerusalem and New Jerusalem versions, so much more elegantly worded in English than the N.A.B.
Jerry Parker
R
rbrtncl
Guest
Jerry:
Aaaaaamen!
Nothing else to say about the NAB.
I confessed that I bought the NAB because David Armstrong had published some apologetic tracks in the Catholic Answered sponsored bible.
I think it was both a mistake from CA’s part & from D. Armstrong part.
They know better. And I still don’t undestand why they did this when we really have real good English translations.
Question; Does anyone know if finally the “Navarre Bible” is being issued in a single book?
In Spanish we’ve got it, the “Biblia de Navarra”. Excelent, great, the best…and real inexpenssive, 15 bucks, the price of a Pizza with a single topping.
Peace,
rob
Aaaaaamen!
Nothing else to say about the NAB.
I confessed that I bought the NAB because David Armstrong had published some apologetic tracks in the Catholic Answered sponsored bible.
I think it was both a mistake from CA’s part & from D. Armstrong part.
They know better. And I still don’t undestand why they did this when we really have real good English translations.
Question; Does anyone know if finally the “Navarre Bible” is being issued in a single book?
In Spanish we’ve got it, the “Biblia de Navarra”. Excelent, great, the best…and real inexpenssive, 15 bucks, the price of a Pizza with a single topping.
Peace,
rob
M
mccorm45
Guest
First off, Catholic Answers has nothing to do with the Catholic Answer Bible. That Bible is published by Our Sunday Visitor. Secondly, like it or not, the NAB will remain the translation used by the vast majority of Catholics in the USA. And it will be used in the Liturgy for the forseeable future. To be honest, since the vast majority of Catholics have no idea the differences between the translations, it is probably best that the Catholic Answer Bible use the NAB since it is the one most Catholics will use. There the ones who need it!Jerry:
Aaaaaamen!
Nothing else to say about the NAB.
I confessed that I bought the NAB because David Armstrong had published some apologetic tracks in the Catholic Answered sponsored bible.
I think it was both a mistake from CA’s part & from D. Armstrong part.
They know better. And I still don’t undestand why they did this when we really have real good English translations.
Question; Does anyone know if finally the “Navarre Bible” is being issued in a single book?
In Spanish we’ve got it, the “Biblia de Navarra”. Excelent, great, the best…and real inexpenssive, 15 bucks, the price of a Pizza with a single topping.
Peace,
rob
R
rbrtncl
Guest
Yeah, I know.
I’m only saying that this particular edition of the NAB was sponsored by CA. On the other hand, many of the CA staff do use RSV-CE, to mention but one translation.
A far as the liturgical use is concerned I do understand there is a new translation on the making, which has been promted by the Vatican itself, due to the serious defects of the current English liturgical translation. I’ve seen some texts already proposed & they seem pretty nicely translated to me.
In the Catholic Culture website there is a close follow up to this endevour which I think is pretty iluminating about this problem.
And yes, I do also use the NAB. Just as you commented before, a single translation won’t do for those like me that does not master the original languages.
I am even using a “study translation” sponsored by R. Sugenis of CAI, which is a palatable Douay-Rheims modern version.
Keep up the good work:thumbsup:
I’m only saying that this particular edition of the NAB was sponsored by CA. On the other hand, many of the CA staff do use RSV-CE, to mention but one translation.
A far as the liturgical use is concerned I do understand there is a new translation on the making, which has been promted by the Vatican itself, due to the serious defects of the current English liturgical translation. I’ve seen some texts already proposed & they seem pretty nicely translated to me.
In the Catholic Culture website there is a close follow up to this endevour which I think is pretty iluminating about this problem.
And yes, I do also use the NAB. Just as you commented before, a single translation won’t do for those like me that does not master the original languages.
I am even using a “study translation” sponsored by R. Sugenis of CAI, which is a palatable Douay-Rheims modern version.
Keep up the good work:thumbsup:
S
sdtouchton
Guest
Choosing the right Bible
Which version is the best for you? It depends on whether you want it primarily for prayer, for study, for Sunday school classes, to take to Church to follow the sermon or for other purposes. Any of the listed translations would do, though you will likely hear only one translation, the New American Bible, proclaimed during Mass.
Like people, the translations come in different sizes and shapes. Some are hardback, some are paperback. Some, that we can call study Bibles, are large with supplementary notes, cross-references or comments, and others are pocket editions. They can be found in most bookstores.
Rather than recommending a specific Bible, I provide (see box below, “Modern Bible Translations”) the most common editions currently available. You do not need to have an expensive edition. Bibles with gilded edges and suave leather covers are lovely as gifts but are not essential to Bible prayer or study. Most important is having a modern edition of the Bible that makes you comfortable.
If you feel you can handle a study Bible edition, it will be a bit thicker and heavier, but it will also contain lots of other information that you will find helpful for more intensive Bible study.
Which version is the best for you? It depends on whether you want it primarily for prayer, for study, for Sunday school classes, to take to Church to follow the sermon or for other purposes. Any of the listed translations would do, though you will likely hear only one translation, the New American Bible, proclaimed during Mass.
Like people, the translations come in different sizes and shapes. Some are hardback, some are paperback. Some, that we can call study Bibles, are large with supplementary notes, cross-references or comments, and others are pocket editions. They can be found in most bookstores.
Rather than recommending a specific Bible, I provide (see box below, “Modern Bible Translations”) the most common editions currently available. You do not need to have an expensive edition. Bibles with gilded edges and suave leather covers are lovely as gifts but are not essential to Bible prayer or study. Most important is having a modern edition of the Bible that makes you comfortable.
If you feel you can handle a study Bible edition, it will be a bit thicker and heavier, but it will also contain lots of other information that you will find helpful for more intensive Bible study.
J
Jerry_Parker
Guest
Rob,
You wrote: Aaaaaamen! Nothing else to say about the NAB. I confessed that I bought the NAB because David Armstrong had published some apologetic tracks in the Catholic Answered sponsored Bible. I think it was both a mistake from CA’s part & from D. Armstrong part. They know better. And I still don’t undestand why they did this when we really have real good English translations. Question; Does anyone know if finally the “Navarre Bible” is being issued in a single book? In Spanish we’ve got it, the “Biblia de Navarra”. Excelent, great, the best…and real inexpenssive, 15 bucks.
It can bewilder one, Rob, that the hierarchy so prefers mediocrity in translation. The same is true of the upper ranks of so many of the Protestants and sectaries, who go ga-ga for slangy, flat-sounding translations and neglect or outright despise the best translations, which mostly are the older ones, but even the rare new translation that has literary elegance, precision of rendering, and dignity. It is like a rush to slide downhill; these folks never care for what is uplifting! The N.A.B. is in “street language”, rather intentionally banal and ugly, and that is how too many of influence prefer for the Bible to be in English. They have their reasons, but among them rarely is true love of and zeal for the precious treasures of Holy Scripture!
It is odd, isn’t it, that Spanish Bibles tend to be so good, generally speaking, and that the best versions are the most sought and used, true of Roman Catholic and non-Catholics alike! Maybe the Spanish culture is more biblically sensitive than haughty Anglophones ever are willing to admit!
Jerry Parker
You wrote: Aaaaaamen! Nothing else to say about the NAB. I confessed that I bought the NAB because David Armstrong had published some apologetic tracks in the Catholic Answered sponsored Bible. I think it was both a mistake from CA’s part & from D. Armstrong part. They know better. And I still don’t undestand why they did this when we really have real good English translations. Question; Does anyone know if finally the “Navarre Bible” is being issued in a single book? In Spanish we’ve got it, the “Biblia de Navarra”. Excelent, great, the best…and real inexpenssive, 15 bucks.
It can bewilder one, Rob, that the hierarchy so prefers mediocrity in translation. The same is true of the upper ranks of so many of the Protestants and sectaries, who go ga-ga for slangy, flat-sounding translations and neglect or outright despise the best translations, which mostly are the older ones, but even the rare new translation that has literary elegance, precision of rendering, and dignity. It is like a rush to slide downhill; these folks never care for what is uplifting! The N.A.B. is in “street language”, rather intentionally banal and ugly, and that is how too many of influence prefer for the Bible to be in English. They have their reasons, but among them rarely is true love of and zeal for the precious treasures of Holy Scripture!
It is odd, isn’t it, that Spanish Bibles tend to be so good, generally speaking, and that the best versions are the most sought and used, true of Roman Catholic and non-Catholics alike! Maybe the Spanish culture is more biblically sensitive than haughty Anglophones ever are willing to admit!
Jerry Parker
R
rbrtncl
Guest
I cannot agree more, Jerry.
It’s simply sad…
As far as Spanish translations is concerned the ones I use the most are: the “Nacar-****Colunga”, excellent, the “Torres-Amat” , roughly equivalent to the Douay-Reims, but in its more current version. Real good too. And as I mentioned before the top of the crop is the "Biblia de Navarra", (30 years in the making!), wich words truly wouldn’t describe the beauty, the fidelity, and the directness of the same. The “Biblia de Jerusalen” I use too, but I read it last since it tends to be more “dynamic/interpretative”, but real esay to read. Of course, being a study bible is good to have. I don’t kow if there is the “New Bible of Jerusalem” translation into Spanish, but as far as the English translation is concerned I would never use it. I bought it but gave it away.
There are 3 or 4 more good translations, made in South America and Mexico that I still don’t have, & I’m looking forward to check them out.
Now, in the horrendous category you have 'Dios Habla al Hombre", a modernist paraphrase, not a real translation, done by the American Bible Society. Totally biased with a Protestant slant.
The very much used “Biblia Latinoamericana”, is very interpretative, and politically tilted to the left so is not to be recomended. The footnotes are more of a sociological view thnt a biblical one.
The advantage in Spanish is that we do have quite a few Catholic Spanish translation, but unfortunately that the does nort occur in English. That’s why I feel sad for the poor USCC sponsored NAB not reaching the mark.
There is a lot to say.
God bless,
Rob
It’s simply sad…
As far as Spanish translations is concerned the ones I use the most are: the “Nacar-****Colunga”, excellent, the “Torres-Amat” , roughly equivalent to the Douay-Reims, but in its more current version. Real good too. And as I mentioned before the top of the crop is the "Biblia de Navarra", (30 years in the making!), wich words truly wouldn’t describe the beauty, the fidelity, and the directness of the same. The “Biblia de Jerusalen” I use too, but I read it last since it tends to be more “dynamic/interpretative”, but real esay to read. Of course, being a study bible is good to have. I don’t kow if there is the “New Bible of Jerusalem” translation into Spanish, but as far as the English translation is concerned I would never use it. I bought it but gave it away.
There are 3 or 4 more good translations, made in South America and Mexico that I still don’t have, & I’m looking forward to check them out.
Now, in the horrendous category you have 'Dios Habla al Hombre", a modernist paraphrase, not a real translation, done by the American Bible Society. Totally biased with a Protestant slant.
The very much used “Biblia Latinoamericana”, is very interpretative, and politically tilted to the left so is not to be recomended. The footnotes are more of a sociological view thnt a biblical one.
The advantage in Spanish is that we do have quite a few Catholic Spanish translation, but unfortunately that the does nort occur in English. That’s why I feel sad for the poor USCC sponsored NAB not reaching the mark.
There is a lot to say.
God bless,
Rob
J
Jehuty_X
Guest
// the translation of the latin vulgate by don felix torres amat is tops
…i love it…now it’s my mom’s preferred version… 
// i have seen la biblia de navarra, but barely any info on it… is the text translated from the ancient languages/texts???
// there is another bible made by “la casa de la biblia” titled “la biblia” which is a literal translations…i don’t have it, but i am planning on buying it…
C
Canto
Guest
WHY DOES THE VATICAN WEB SITE USE THE NAB?
The copyright is owned by the US bishops, others are too old english or owned by a publisher or protestant group like the NCC.
WHY IS THE RSV USED FOR CHURCH DOCS?
-I wish they would just transalte the bits from the Latin?
-The RSV is elegant, modern english
-The others are old english or not literal enough
-So in a way the RSV wins by default
-The CCC uses the RSV and NRSV but my Australian version notes changes were adapted.
THE RSV?
-If so many change were made in the CE edition what does that say?
-Were there many more changes they wanted to make but couldn’t due to copyright restrictions?
-I have read that the translators did NOT take a Chrstological approach the the Old Testament???
THE DOUAY?
The copyright is owned by the US bishops, others are too old english or owned by a publisher or protestant group like the NCC.
WHY IS THE RSV USED FOR CHURCH DOCS?
-I wish they would just transalte the bits from the Latin?
-The RSV is elegant, modern english
-The others are old english or not literal enough
-So in a way the RSV wins by default
-The CCC uses the RSV and NRSV but my Australian version notes changes were adapted.
THE RSV?
-If so many change were made in the CE edition what does that say?
-Were there many more changes they wanted to make but couldn’t due to copyright restrictions?
-I have read that the translators did NOT take a Chrstological approach the the Old Testament???
THE DOUAY?
-I want as literal over readable if I have to choose - and unfortunantly I do 
-The original DR (completed in 1582) uses the Latin as its base and corrects in light of the best available Hebrew, Greek etc
-Dr. Gregory Martin of Oxford (the main translator) was well versed in the orignal languages in which he taught
-I don’t mind the original Jerusalem Bible or Confraternity or Challoner
-The DR is not as readable, boy is it not as readable as other Bibles and it could do from more common spelling instead of Esay for example and better textual criticism (not that any changes would be of moral or doctrinal consequence)
J
Jerry_Parker
Guest
Rob,
**You wrote: ** As far as Spanish translations is concerned the ones I use the most are: the “Nacar-Colunga”, excellent, the “Torres-Amat” , roughly equivalent to the Douay-Reims, but in its more current version. Real good too. And as I mentioned before the top of the crop is the “Biblia de Navarra”, (30 years in the making!), wich words truly wouldn’t describe the beauty, the fidelity, and the directness of the same. The “Biblia de Jerusalen” I use too, but I read it last since it tends to be more “dynamic/interpretative”, but real esay to read. Of course, being a study bible is good to have. I don’t kow if there is the “New Bible of Jerusalem” translation into Spanish, but as far as the English translation is concerned I would never use it. I bought it but gave it away.
There are 3 or 4 more good translations, made in South America and Mexico that I still don’t have, & I’m looking forward to check them out.
Now, in the horrendous category you have 'Dios Habla al Hombre", a modernist paraphrase, not a real translation, done by the American Bible Society. Totally biased with a Protestant slant.
The very much used “Biblia Latinoamericana”, is very interpretative, and politically tilted to the left so is not to be recomended. The footnotes are more of a sociological view thnt a biblical one.
The advantage in Spanish is that we do have quite a few Catholic Spanish translation, but unfortunately that the does nort occur in English. That’s why I feel sad for the poor USCC sponsored NAB not reaching the mark.
Rob, Yes, it is very good, indeed, to read the Bible in a fine, “formal equivalent” translation. Because Spanish (and that includes today’s Castillian Spanish) is so grammatically precise and free of the vagueness and ambiguity that intrinsically afflict modern English (although the Tudor English of the Douay-Rheims and Authorised “King James” Versions was more precise than what English as a language became over the centuries since), it helps to use as literal a Spanish translation as is reasonably possible as a study tool (or, if one is born a Spanish speaker, as the primary Bible version). One can come so close to the Greek (or Clementine Vulgate Latin) of the New Testament in a Spanish translation, more so than is possible, I think, in modern English, unless the English translator resort to a lot of grammatically explanatory footnotes or to cumbersome locutions. There are a few editions, hard to seek out, of the Protestants’ Spanish Bible, the Reina-Valera Version, that predate the 19th and 20th century revisions of it. Sectaries and Protestants complain of how too “Popish” the early editions of the Reina-Valera Version were! Of course, that makes them the more desirable, the earlier the better! Reina and Valera were Protestants, but they were honest and accurate translators who did not let the kind of bias that afflicts their later revisers get in the way of translating the Bible into Spanish.
Therefore, what a waste it is for anymore to use a “dynamic equivalence” Spanish translation such as the dreadful (and banal) “Dios habla hoy” paraphrase! I have ordered the Torres-Amat translation, but, alas, it seems to be snagged in getting to me. You and others have commended it very highly, so I desire to possess it, too.
You know, I find the Spanish translation of the Novus Ordo liturgy far more beautiful than the English and French Novus Ordo liturgies that I have encountered. One can live with the *Novus Ordo *more easily, feeling a lot less deprived of the 1962 *Missale Romanum’s *beauties, in Spanish than in English. There were Spanish-speaking parishes in Montréal, but, unfortunately, none here in Rouyn-Noranda that I know of. Being from Southern California originally, I feel very “at home” in Spanish.
You have good discernment, Rob!
Jerry Parker
**You wrote: ** As far as Spanish translations is concerned the ones I use the most are: the “Nacar-Colunga”, excellent, the “Torres-Amat” , roughly equivalent to the Douay-Reims, but in its more current version. Real good too. And as I mentioned before the top of the crop is the “Biblia de Navarra”, (30 years in the making!), wich words truly wouldn’t describe the beauty, the fidelity, and the directness of the same. The “Biblia de Jerusalen” I use too, but I read it last since it tends to be more “dynamic/interpretative”, but real esay to read. Of course, being a study bible is good to have. I don’t kow if there is the “New Bible of Jerusalem” translation into Spanish, but as far as the English translation is concerned I would never use it. I bought it but gave it away.
There are 3 or 4 more good translations, made in South America and Mexico that I still don’t have, & I’m looking forward to check them out.
Now, in the horrendous category you have 'Dios Habla al Hombre", a modernist paraphrase, not a real translation, done by the American Bible Society. Totally biased with a Protestant slant.
The very much used “Biblia Latinoamericana”, is very interpretative, and politically tilted to the left so is not to be recomended. The footnotes are more of a sociological view thnt a biblical one.
The advantage in Spanish is that we do have quite a few Catholic Spanish translation, but unfortunately that the does nort occur in English. That’s why I feel sad for the poor USCC sponsored NAB not reaching the mark.
Rob, Yes, it is very good, indeed, to read the Bible in a fine, “formal equivalent” translation. Because Spanish (and that includes today’s Castillian Spanish) is so grammatically precise and free of the vagueness and ambiguity that intrinsically afflict modern English (although the Tudor English of the Douay-Rheims and Authorised “King James” Versions was more precise than what English as a language became over the centuries since), it helps to use as literal a Spanish translation as is reasonably possible as a study tool (or, if one is born a Spanish speaker, as the primary Bible version). One can come so close to the Greek (or Clementine Vulgate Latin) of the New Testament in a Spanish translation, more so than is possible, I think, in modern English, unless the English translator resort to a lot of grammatically explanatory footnotes or to cumbersome locutions. There are a few editions, hard to seek out, of the Protestants’ Spanish Bible, the Reina-Valera Version, that predate the 19th and 20th century revisions of it. Sectaries and Protestants complain of how too “Popish” the early editions of the Reina-Valera Version were! Of course, that makes them the more desirable, the earlier the better! Reina and Valera were Protestants, but they were honest and accurate translators who did not let the kind of bias that afflicts their later revisers get in the way of translating the Bible into Spanish.
Therefore, what a waste it is for anymore to use a “dynamic equivalence” Spanish translation such as the dreadful (and banal) “Dios habla hoy” paraphrase! I have ordered the Torres-Amat translation, but, alas, it seems to be snagged in getting to me. You and others have commended it very highly, so I desire to possess it, too.
You know, I find the Spanish translation of the Novus Ordo liturgy far more beautiful than the English and French Novus Ordo liturgies that I have encountered. One can live with the *Novus Ordo *more easily, feeling a lot less deprived of the 1962 *Missale Romanum’s *beauties, in Spanish than in English. There were Spanish-speaking parishes in Montréal, but, unfortunately, none here in Rouyn-Noranda that I know of. Being from Southern California originally, I feel very “at home” in Spanish.
You have good discernment, Rob!
Jerry Parker
J
Jehuty_X
Guest
// yes it is a waste for anyone to use a dynamic equivalence castillian translation…Dios habla hoy is horrible…my mom had it and she gave it away quickly… lol …la biblia latinoamericana is another terrible translation…even worse the castillian lectionary that us lectors use in our church uses la biblia latinoamericana’s text…i just hate reading from it along with the english version (new american babel bible)… ugh…
// the bible by casiodoro de reina is a good translation…i read a bit of it and i liked it…sadly cipriano de valera removed the deuterocanonical books when he revised it…oh and (this is for tobystark) it has blessed art thou among women in luke 1;28 if i remember correctly…
// i’m sorry to see that you did not get your version of don felix torres-amat’s latin vulgate to castillian…i hope you get it real soon…it will be worth the wait…
// wow so in canada they have spanish mass? i’ve been wanting to go to canada again so badly…thanks for writing about it…
J
Jerry_Parker
Guest
Rob,
Your wrote: *[Y]es, it is a waste for anyone to use a dynamic equivalence Castillian translation…Dios habla hoy is horrible… My mom had it and she gave it away quickly. lol … La Biblia latinoamericana is another terrible translation. Even worse, the Castillian lectionary that we lectors use in our church uses *La Biblia latinoamericana’s *text. I just hate reading from it along with the English version (New American Babel Bible)… ugh…
The Bible by Casiodoro de Reina is a good translation…I read a bit of it and I liked it. Sadly Cipriano de Valera removed the deuterocanonical books when he revised it. Oh and (this is for tobystark) it has blessed art thou among women in luke 1:28 if I remember correctly.
I’m sorry to see that you did not get your version of don Felix Torres-Amat’s Latin Vulgate to Castillian. I hope [that] you get it real soon. It will be worth the wait. *
*
Wow! so in Canada they have Spanish Mass? I’ve been wanting to go to Canada again so badly. Thanks for writing about it.*
Yes, there are many Hispanics here in Québec. They are not so much from the countries from which many Hispanic immigrants arrive in the U.S., however, but rather more from Central and South America. Often Hispanics come to French Canada because they feel more at home in the Latin culture of Québec (French folks being Latins, too). The Québécois love Spanish (also Portuguese to only somewhat lesser extent) as a language, and Latin American music, literature, and culture very much and identify with it. There is not here the kind of dislike, prejudice, and/or condescension towards Hispanics that so many racist Gringo-Americans exhibit (to their shame). Some Hispanic, Portuguese, and Brazilian performers become quite popular and often are on Québec’s Hit Parade. Studying Spanish and travelling to Spanish-speaking countries are both increasingly popular hobbies of Québécois. So, yes, the Mass in Spanish does exist in some Hispanic parishes (or as Spanish services in French parish churches) in the larger cities, but Rouyn-Noranda is a bit too small for that. My impression is that the whole “Hispanic scene” is less prominent in English-speaking Canada.
The Reina-Valera Bible mostly is available in excessively Protestantised editions that eliminate much of the Catholic traces of the translation as Reina and Valera had left it, but the earliest texts of Reina and Valera still are in print, just a lot harder to track down. As for the deutero-canonical books, I wonder if finally someone will do for Reina-Valera what recently was done for Louis Segond’s 1910 French Bible. Alexandre Falco edited back into Segond’s famous and well known, widely used French translation the deutero-canonical writings as Louis-Isaac Lemaistre de Sacy had translated them, putting them into their usual Catholic positions in the canon of the Old Testament. That makes a Segond-Lemaistre French Bible that Catholic Christians can use, and a fine (and inexpensive) one it is, too! (For those wishing to have it, the ISBN is 9-78274343147-1, the book being included in the series, “Maxi-poches: Sagesse”, by a publisher known alternatively as Maxi Livres or as Succes du Livre, depending on the printing that one finds.) I reviewed Alexandre Falco’s Segond-Lemaistre Bible for Amazon.fr (the French Amazon site), so, if interested, a C.A. reader can access it there (the easiest seach terms typed in together being “Bible Falco” to find the Amazon entry quickly). An edition of the Bible in Spanish that reverts to one of the pre-19th century (über-Protestant) revisions of the Reina-Valera Bible and which adds the deutero-canonical books from a Spanish Roman Catholic translation could do similar good for Spanish-speaking Christians!
I agree with you about those penny-dreadful Spanish Bible paraphrases that you mention, as well as, in English, the contemptibly horrid New American Bible (or “Babel-Bible” as you so aptly nickname it!). Spanish and Portuguese are blessed with some of the most exact, lovely, and faithful Bibles ever translated into European languages, so why dredge up johhny-come-lately paraphrases of poor quality, to use in any local parish, to displace what is so much superior?!? And, of course, there are a number of Roman Catholic Bibles in English which are superior to the paltry N.A.B.!
Jerry Parker
Your wrote: *[Y]es, it is a waste for anyone to use a dynamic equivalence Castillian translation…Dios habla hoy is horrible… My mom had it and she gave it away quickly. lol … La Biblia latinoamericana is another terrible translation. Even worse, the Castillian lectionary that we lectors use in our church uses *La Biblia latinoamericana’s *text. I just hate reading from it along with the English version (New American Babel Bible)… ugh…
The Bible by Casiodoro de Reina is a good translation…I read a bit of it and I liked it. Sadly Cipriano de Valera removed the deuterocanonical books when he revised it. Oh and (this is for tobystark) it has blessed art thou among women in luke 1:28 if I remember correctly.
I’m sorry to see that you did not get your version of don Felix Torres-Amat’s Latin Vulgate to Castillian. I hope [that] you get it real soon. It will be worth the wait. *
*
Wow! so in Canada they have Spanish Mass? I’ve been wanting to go to Canada again so badly. Thanks for writing about it.*
Yes, there are many Hispanics here in Québec. They are not so much from the countries from which many Hispanic immigrants arrive in the U.S., however, but rather more from Central and South America. Often Hispanics come to French Canada because they feel more at home in the Latin culture of Québec (French folks being Latins, too). The Québécois love Spanish (also Portuguese to only somewhat lesser extent) as a language, and Latin American music, literature, and culture very much and identify with it. There is not here the kind of dislike, prejudice, and/or condescension towards Hispanics that so many racist Gringo-Americans exhibit (to their shame). Some Hispanic, Portuguese, and Brazilian performers become quite popular and often are on Québec’s Hit Parade. Studying Spanish and travelling to Spanish-speaking countries are both increasingly popular hobbies of Québécois. So, yes, the Mass in Spanish does exist in some Hispanic parishes (or as Spanish services in French parish churches) in the larger cities, but Rouyn-Noranda is a bit too small for that. My impression is that the whole “Hispanic scene” is less prominent in English-speaking Canada.
The Reina-Valera Bible mostly is available in excessively Protestantised editions that eliminate much of the Catholic traces of the translation as Reina and Valera had left it, but the earliest texts of Reina and Valera still are in print, just a lot harder to track down. As for the deutero-canonical books, I wonder if finally someone will do for Reina-Valera what recently was done for Louis Segond’s 1910 French Bible. Alexandre Falco edited back into Segond’s famous and well known, widely used French translation the deutero-canonical writings as Louis-Isaac Lemaistre de Sacy had translated them, putting them into their usual Catholic positions in the canon of the Old Testament. That makes a Segond-Lemaistre French Bible that Catholic Christians can use, and a fine (and inexpensive) one it is, too! (For those wishing to have it, the ISBN is 9-78274343147-1, the book being included in the series, “Maxi-poches: Sagesse”, by a publisher known alternatively as Maxi Livres or as Succes du Livre, depending on the printing that one finds.) I reviewed Alexandre Falco’s Segond-Lemaistre Bible for Amazon.fr (the French Amazon site), so, if interested, a C.A. reader can access it there (the easiest seach terms typed in together being “Bible Falco” to find the Amazon entry quickly). An edition of the Bible in Spanish that reverts to one of the pre-19th century (über-Protestant) revisions of the Reina-Valera Bible and which adds the deutero-canonical books from a Spanish Roman Catholic translation could do similar good for Spanish-speaking Christians!
I agree with you about those penny-dreadful Spanish Bible paraphrases that you mention, as well as, in English, the contemptibly horrid New American Bible (or “Babel-Bible” as you so aptly nickname it!). Spanish and Portuguese are blessed with some of the most exact, lovely, and faithful Bibles ever translated into European languages, so why dredge up johhny-come-lately paraphrases of poor quality, to use in any local parish, to displace what is so much superior?!? And, of course, there are a number of Roman Catholic Bibles in English which are superior to the paltry N.A.B.!
Jerry Parker
E
excelsus
Guest
I prefer the Douay-Rheims. It just has such grand sounding quotes that really inspire more than modern English can, in my opinion.
“Fear not, for I am with thee: turn not aside, for I am thy God: I have strengthened thee, and have helped thee, and the right hand of my just one hath upheld thee. Behold all that fight against thee shall be confounded and ashamed, they shall be as nothing, and the men shall perish that strive against thee. Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find the men that resist thee: they shall be as nothing: and as a thing consumed the men that war against thee. For I am the Lord thy God, who take thee by the hand, and say to thee: Fear not, I have helped thee.” Isa. 41:10-13 (yes, I know it is the Challoner edition)
That’s just amazing. Really connects you to a higher sense of being. Or at least it does to me.
“Fear not, for I am with thee: turn not aside, for I am thy God: I have strengthened thee, and have helped thee, and the right hand of my just one hath upheld thee. Behold all that fight against thee shall be confounded and ashamed, they shall be as nothing, and the men shall perish that strive against thee. Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find the men that resist thee: they shall be as nothing: and as a thing consumed the men that war against thee. For I am the Lord thy God, who take thee by the hand, and say to thee: Fear not, I have helped thee.” Isa. 41:10-13 (yes, I know it is the Challoner edition)
That’s just amazing. Really connects you to a higher sense of being. Or at least it does to me.
J
Jerry_Parker
Guest
You wrote: [T]he Douay-Rheims [version] … has such grand sounding quotes that really inspire more than modern English can, in my opinion.
Hm-m-m, how right you are, Excelsior! I often mention the modern English versions in the C.A. fora, because so many folks are just too stubborn about having a Bible that is “modern” and relatively recently published for the first time, but, really, no Bible in English in the last century or so lives up to the exalted grandeur (and faithfulness) of the Douay-Rheims Bible as saintly Bp. Richard Challoner bequeathed it to us in his majestic text of it!
Jerry Parker
Hm-m-m, how right you are, Excelsior! I often mention the modern English versions in the C.A. fora, because so many folks are just too stubborn about having a Bible that is “modern” and relatively recently published for the first time, but, really, no Bible in English in the last century or so lives up to the exalted grandeur (and faithfulness) of the Douay-Rheims Bible as saintly Bp. Richard Challoner bequeathed it to us in his majestic text of it!
Jerry Parker
A
AmbroseSJ
Guest
Canto said:
I don’t understand this remark.
You are aware that Bishop Challoner updated all of the orthography of the DR in his revision right? He uses Isaiah, not Esay. There’s also another recently issued update of orthography, a strict transliteration, to old DR which claims not to have changed anything else.
R
rbrtncl
Guest
Ji Jerry!
We are in 2009, & I just realized that I missed this very elaborated considerations on December 2008. Sorry!
Well, you have such a encyclopedic knowledge about this whole issue that is truly difficult to follow you.
I mean, there is so much in your contributions…Let me just mention that lately I’ve had the opportunity to go to two Tridentine masses. The other Sunday it was in the chapell of the SSPX Society, & this last Sunday in a “regular” parish Latin mass. The bible translation into both English & Spanish are just so great. It is an experience in itself.
Another experience is that the homilies were so great. It is a much greater level of spirituality that I have truly missed in more than 30 years! Sorry for changing the subject momentarily, but couldn’t hold this comments to myself.
God bless
Rob
R
rbrtncl
Guest
Hi! This goes for Jerry & the bible crowd.
The “Biblia de Navarra” can be bought in www.aquinasandmore.com, the Torres-Amat is available in www.tanbooks.com.
Now, anyone mentioned the DR edition of Bishop Challoner?? Sorry my irreparable ignorance but I was not aware about that. It happens that the DR it’s difficult for me to read, being English my second language, thus I am looking for easier yet faithfull DR version.
I did mentioned before that R. Sugenis, from CAI is doing such a effort in a “study bible” translation, which I find very good indeed, but he has not finished yet. I also mentioned that some of the R. Sugenis positions are quite debatable, & I don’t want to get into that, but just limit myself to this particular translation effort.
Changin issue about the mass translations and the like. Masses in Spanish tend to be real “ethnic” in South Florida. The music, is frequently a rithmic “Latin sound” with very little devotion, and I’m getting away from that. I know that for some it may be a strong oppinion, but I am mentioning this without any desire to hurt anyone. The issue is that both translations & the mass “environment” are important for communicating the message.
Peace
Rob
The “Biblia de Navarra” can be bought in www.aquinasandmore.com, the Torres-Amat is available in www.tanbooks.com.
Now, anyone mentioned the DR edition of Bishop Challoner?? Sorry my irreparable ignorance but I was not aware about that. It happens that the DR it’s difficult for me to read, being English my second language, thus I am looking for easier yet faithfull DR version.
I did mentioned before that R. Sugenis, from CAI is doing such a effort in a “study bible” translation, which I find very good indeed, but he has not finished yet. I also mentioned that some of the R. Sugenis positions are quite debatable, & I don’t want to get into that, but just limit myself to this particular translation effort.
Changin issue about the mass translations and the like. Masses in Spanish tend to be real “ethnic” in South Florida. The music, is frequently a rithmic “Latin sound” with very little devotion, and I’m getting away from that. I know that for some it may be a strong oppinion, but I am mentioning this without any desire to hurt anyone. The issue is that both translations & the mass “environment” are important for communicating the message.
Peace
Rob
J
Jehuty_X
Guest
// thanks…is la biblia de navarra text translated from the ancient languages???
// you can also get the torres-amat in bonded leather for $33.75 at www.allbibles.com …
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