Best catholic Bible version to read?

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Howdy, Rob,

**You wrote: ** *Hi, Jerry! We are in 2009, & I just realized that I missed this very elaborated considerations on December 2008. Sorry! Well, you have such a encyclopedic knowledge about this whole issue * that is truly difficult to follow you. I mean, there is so much in your contributions.

Let me just mention that lately I’ve had the opportunity to go to two Tridentine masses. The other Sunday it was in the chapell of the SSPX Society, & this last Sunday in a “regular” parish Latin mass. The Bible translation into both English & Spanish are just so great. It is an experience in itself.

Another experience is that the homilies were so great. It is a much greater level of spirituality that I have truly missed in more than 30 years! Sorry for changing the subject momentarily, but couldn’t hold this comments to myself.**God bless, Rob *

Rob, what a sweet spirit you have, and thanks for the compliments. From what I know, Latin Mass traditionalists who use the Tridentine or 1962 Missale Romanum liturgies tend to use the Douay-Rheims-Challoner Version; it is printed in the readings for the Mass in at least two of the 1962-based Latin Missals that I know of (and hope to obtain when my limited revenue as a pensioner permits). How lucky you are to be in a place where the 1962 Latin Mass is offered! The Douay-Rheims-Challoner, of course, is an utterly lovely and lofty translation, worthy of the Bible’s message! The Confraternity Version, too, has dignity and beauty that are lacking in so many of the subsequent 20th century versions.

Jerry Parker*
 
Rob,

You wrote: *Hi! This goes for Jerry & the Bible [versions] crowd. The “Biblia de Navarra” can be bought in www.aquinasandmore.com, the Torres-Amat is available in www.tanbooks.com.

Now, anyone mentioned the DR edition of Bishop Challoner?? Sorry my irreparable ignorance but I was not aware about that. It happens that the DR it’s difficult for me to read, being English my second language, thus I am looking for easier yet faithfull DR version.

I did mentioned before that R. Sugenis, from CAI is doing such a effort in a “study bible” translation, which I find very good indeed, but he has not finished yet. I also mentioned that some of the R. Sugenis positions are quite debatable, & I don’t want to get into that, but just limit myself to this particular translation effort.

Changing issue about the Mass translations and the like. Masses in Spanish tend to be real “ethnic” in South Florida. The music, is frequently a rythmic “Latin sound” with very little devotion, and I’m getting away from that. I know that for some it may be a strong opinion, but I am mentioning this without any desire to hurt anyone. The issue is that both translations & the mass “environment” are important for communicating the message.
Peace, Rob*

Sigh! So the influence of “hootenanny Masses” affects the Spanish, as well, by incorporating pop styles into settings of the liturgy and hymns or songs! I guess that it had to happen, but what a disappointment. At least Latino pop music tends to be more interesting than the bland goo of English-language Pop-Mass music! Many Spanish parishes, though, are more traditional than so to compromise the devout atmosphere of the Mass.

The Douay-Rheims-Challoner Version most often simply is referred to as the Douay-Rheims; it was Bp. Richard Challoner who edited the older Douay-Rheims translation into the form that we have known it widely for so long. If the D.R. really is too difficult for you, whose first language is not English, get the Confraternity (sometimes called Confraternity-Douay) Version, used from Amazon.com; the Confraternity N.T. is still available separately.

Thanks for the WWW sites that you suggest!

Jerry Parker
 
AmbroseSJ said:
I don’t understand this remark. :confused: You are aware that Bishop Challoner updated all of the orthography of the DR in his revision right? 👍 He uses Isaiah, not Esay. There’s also another recently issued update of orthography, a strict transliteration, to old DR which claims not to have changed anything else.
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The 1899 Challoner that I have says Isaias not Isaiah for example. Even the Challoner could be made more readalbe in my opinion. And other bibles such as the Westminster and Confraternity and RSV-CE etc are more readable then it. I do like it however, just think it can be made more readable and bought into line with modern textual criticism without effecting morals or doctrine.

I have the link you mention and a copy of the original. All the linked version does, aside from making the type more readable, is update the spelling. It still has Esay etc for example but things like Haille fulle of grace becomes Hail full of grace.
 
Jehuty_X said:
// thanks…is la biblia de navarra text translated from the ancient languages???

// you can also get the torres-amat in bonded leather for $33.75 at www.allbibles.com …
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Thank you for the info.
Yes, the “Biblia de Navarra” is a monumental effort of 30 years from the ancient languages. This bible was requested by, our today saint, J. M. De Escriba De Balaguer, the founder of the Opus Dei. Several departments of the “Universidad de Navarra” in Pamplona, Spain are the responsible ones, but many other experts were consulted along the way.
I’ve been waiting for this bible, literally, all my life. As anything else, I thought that what you expect much disappoints a lot. Howerver, it was a pleaseant surpirsed when I finally put my eyes on this translation.
As I commented, there are in Mexico, Chile, & Argentina, & I believe there is another one in South America, bible translatios that I still don’t have but I’ve read good things about them. I believe a couple of them are basically literal translation.
There is also the bible translation of Schoekels (not sure of the last name) in Spain, called “Biblia de Peregrino” with such a interpretive/liberal translation that it actually is a plain distortion (e.g. “este hombre” meaning the son of man!!, & so on).
Anyhow, hope you can get a hold of the “Biblia de Navarra”. In English they have used the RSV, with minor corrections for their longer study bible with excellent notes.
Peace,
Rob
 
rbrtncl said:
Thank you for the info.
Yes, the “Biblia de Navarra” is a monumental effort of 30 years from the ancient languages. This bible was requested by, our today saint, J. M. De Escriba De Balaguer, the founder of the Opus Dei. Several departments of the “Universidad de Navarra” in Pamplona, Spain are the responsible ones, but many other experts were consulted along the way.
I’ve been waiting for this bible, literally, all my life. As anything else, I thought that what you expect much disappoints a lot. Howerver, it was a pleaseant surpirsed when I finally put my eyes on this translation.
As I commented, there are in Mexico, Chile, & Argentina, & I believe there is another one in South America, bible translatios that I still don’t have but I’ve read good things about them. I believe a couple of them are basically literal translation.
There is also the bible translation of Schoekels (not sure of the last name) in Spain, called “Biblia de Peregrino” with such a interpretive/liberal translation that it actually is a plain distortion (e.g. “este hombre” meaning the son of man!!, & so on).
Anyhow, hope you can get a hold of the “Biblia de Navarra”. In English they have used the RSV, with minor corrections for their longer study bible with excellent notes.
Peace,
Rob
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// your welcome… 😃 … i was in a hunt (and i do mean a hunt) for torres-amat’s translation after reading my mom’s family bible version…i loved it…now all it needs is for someone to pick up the text and make a true study bible with extensive footnotes and pretty much it would be heaven for me… 😃 lol

// thanks for the info…i was thinking that it would be similar to the english version that it’s based off the revised standard version…i’m going to look into it when i get the chance…
 
You’re welcome. And keep up the hunt. I know the feeling…
Jerry, I have a speech pending about the prayer life in August:cool: Do you by any chance have a good book to recomend??
Just asking.
Peace.
Rob
 
Canto said:
The 1899 Challoner that I have says Isaias not Isaiah for example. Even the Challoner could be made more readalbe in my opinion. And other bibles such as the Westminster and Confraternity and RSV-CE etc are more readable then it. I do like it however, just think it can be made more readable and bought into line with modern textual criticism without effecting morals or doctrine.

I have the link you mention and a copy of the original. All the linked version does, aside from making the type more readable, is update the spelling. It still has Esay etc for example but things like Haille fulle of grace becomes Hail full of grace.
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Could you give me a little information on the Westminster. I can’t find anything on it. And I have been trying for almost 2 years. Thank you.
 
Rob,

**You wrote: ** Jerry, I have a speech pending about the prayer life in August Do you by any chance have a good book to recomend? Just asking.

I would be happy to help, but I am not sure that I understand what you need. Is it something good about prayer per se, or something that touches on prayer and the Bible and how it is translated?

For something about prayer itself, Romano Guardini is one of my very favourite spiritual writers; I discovered him long ago when I still was barely out of my teens. Among his books on prayer are *The Art of Praying: the Principles and Methods of Christian Prayer * and another is Prayer in Practice, either (or both) of which should be helpful. Both of these books are on Amazon.com used and/or new at very reasonable prices.

For something about prayer as a Biblical subject, I find that the Prayer of Manasseh, a deutero-canonical portion of the O.T. book of 2 Chronicles (in the Eastern Orthodox canon of the Bible, and in the supplement to the Latin Vulgate in a few R.C. Bibles) is marvellous to study, because it is such a clear and exquisite example of how Biblical people prayed at best and most balanced, with emphasis on contrition. You can find some comment on this famous prayer in some commentaries that discuss this portion of deutero-canonical Scripture.

I hope that this helps a bit. If I misunderstand you, let me know further for what you have need and I’ll try further to guide you to something.

Jerry Parker
 
tobinatorstark said:
Could you give me a little information on the Westminster. I can’t find anything on it. And I have been trying for almost 2 years. Thank you.
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Aproved by the Bishop of Westminster (London) 1910-1940ish.
Books of the bible released in sections with a new literal translation from the Greek (don’t think they completed the whole Old Testament, not sure?) accompanied by a whole lot of notes of theological and historical value and notes that discuss a lot of their textual choices. A great study Bible.

The following site offers some parts for download as a pdf.

thedcl.org/bible/wmv/index.html
 
Canto said:
Aproved by the Bishop of Westminster (London) 1910-1940ish.
Books of the bible released in sections with a new literal translation from the Greek (don’t think they completed the whole Old Testament, not sure?) accompanied by a whole lot of notes of theological and historical value and notes that discuss a lot of their textual choices. A great study Bible.

The following site offers some parts for download as a pdf.

thedcl.org/bible/wmv/index.html
Click to expand...
Thanks Canto.
 
Tobinatorstark and Canto,

You two wrote: Question: Could you give me a little information on the Westminster? I can’t find anything on it. And I have been trying for almost 2 years. Thank you. – Answer: Aproved by the Bishop of Westminster (London) 1910-1930ish. Books of the bible released in sections with a new literal translation from the Greek (don’t think they completed the whole Old Testament, not sure?) accompanied by a whole lot of notes of theological and historical value and notes that discuss a lot of their textual choices. A great study Bible.

There are, indeed, some forgotten older Roman Catholic Bibles and separately published New Testaments, and some newer ones, too, that never received much attention in the U. S. of A. and in the Dominion of Canada.

One that I own, but which have not used much, since it translates at the near-babytalk level of something like Today’s English Version (a.k.a. Good News Bible), perhaps is so little known because it is oriented to Philippinos who have at least some understanding of English (this perhaps accounting for the simple level of English style), so here, to mention it, is an ISBD citation of it:

Christian Community Bible : Complete Text Translated [into English] from Hebrew and Greek / translated, presented, and commissioned for the Christian communities of the Philippines and the Third World and for those who seek God. – Seventeenth ed., Catholic pastoral edition. – Liguoi, Mo. : Liguori Publications ; Quezon City, Philippines : Claretian Publications, copyr. 1995. – 1312, 615, [6] p. + unnumbered & unpaged plates of b&w & col. ill. – ISBN: 0-89243-816-5.

There are quite copious notes and many aids, which, essentially, makes this a Roman Catholic study Bible, and, best of all, one that is edited from a faithfully believing standpoint. While the translation itself falls short of what most well educated Roman Catholic readers in North America require, it could be one that is accessible for readers whose first language is not English, and the study notes, being so refreshingly true to the Holy Catholic Christian Faith, make it a good study or annotated Bible to have at hand.

Jerry Parker
 
Jerry_Parker said:
Tobinatorstark and Canto,

You two wrote: Question: *Could you give me a little information on the Westminster? I can’t find anything on it. And I have been trying for almost 2 years. Thank you. – Answer: *Aproved by the Bishop of Westminster (London) 1910-1930ish. Books of the bible released in sections with a new literal translation from the Greek (don’t think they completed the whole Old Testament, not sure?) accompanied by a whole lot of notes of theological and historical value and notes that discuss a lot of their textual choices. A great study Bible.

There are, indeed, some forgotten older Roman Catholic Bibles and separately published New Testaments, and some newer ones, too, that never received much attention in the U. S. of A. and in the Dominion of Canada.

One that I own, but which have not used much, since it translates at the near-babytalk level of something like Today’s English Version (a.k.a. Good News Bible), perhaps is so little known because it is oriented to Philippinos who have at least some understanding of English (this perhaps accounting for the simple level of English style), so here, to mention it, is an ISBD citation of it:

Christian Community Bible : Complete Text Translated [into English] from Hebrew and Greek / translated, presented, and commissioned for the Christian communities of the Philippines and the Third World and for those who seek God. – Seventeenth ed., Catholic pastoral edition. – Liguoi, Mo. : Liguori Publications ; Quezon City, Philippines : Claretian Publications, copyr. 1995. – 1312, 615, [6] p. + unnumbered & unpaged plates of b&w & col. ill. – ISBN: 0-89243-816-5.

There are quite copious notes and many aids, which, essentially, makes this a Roman Catholic study Bible, and, best of all, one that is edited from a faithfully believing standpoint. While the translation itself falls short of what most well educated Roman Catholic readers in North America require, it could be one that is accessible for readers whose first language is not English, and the study notes, being so refreshingly true to the Holy Catholic Christian Faith, make it a good study or annotated Bible to have at hand.

Jerry Parker
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Not sure about the U.S. but the Good News Bible seems really popular elsewhere, unfortunantly. I rather like the Christian Community Bible and good to see full of grace like the Westminster and the notes are orthodox!

you can download as PDF or word the CCB here bible.claret.org/bibles/english.htm

One Bible I would like to get my hands on is the Spencer New Testament. Esp the Gospel of Luke chs 1 and 2.

This was translated into English by Francis Aloysius Spencer, O. P., and edited by Charles J. Callan, O. P., and John A. McHugh, O. P.

Spencer began with the gospels from the Latin then decided to use the Greek. He spent the rest of his life translating the whole New Testament from the Greek. After his death, his work was edited and finally published.
 
Jerry_Parker said:
Rob,

**You wrote: ** Jerry, I have a speech pending about the prayer life in August Do you by any chance have a good book to recomend? Just asking.

I would be happy to help, but I am not sure that I understand what you need. Is it something good about prayer per se, or something that touches on prayer and the Bible and how it is translated?

For something about prayer itself, Romano Guardini is one of my very favourite spiritual writers; I discovered him long ago when I still was barely out of my teens. Among his books on prayer are *The Art of Praying: the Principles and Methods of Christian Prayer * and another is Prayer in Practice, either (or both) of which should be helpful. Both of these books are on Amazon.com used and/or new at very reasonable prices.

For something about prayer as a Biblical subject, I find that the Prayer of Manasseh, a deutero-canonical portion of the O.T. book of 2 Chronicles (in the Eastern Orthodox canon of the Bible, and in the supplement to the Latin Vulgate in a few R.C. Bibles) is marvellous to study, because it is such a clear and exquisite example of how Biblical people prayed at best and most balanced, with emphasis on contrition. You can find some comment on this famous prayer in some commentaries that discuss this portion of deutero-canonical Scripture.

I hope that this helps a bit. If I misunderstand you, let me know further for what you have need and I’ll try further to guide you to something.

Jerry Parker
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Jerry, thank you a lot. Well, being “not sure” :rolleyes: about what you understand, you have offered me a valuable info. Particularly your advise on the Prayer of Manasseh it’s real to the point.🙂 I’ve amassed quite a bit of prayer material, but is always good to be exposed to somebody that you can rely on.👍 Thank you again.
I’ve been reviewing the meaning of prayer in St. John of the Cross, S.Teresa of Avila, also material about the theology of the mystical life in Jesus, the Jesus’ prayer, liturgy of the hours, lectio divina, etc. This speech will precede a retreat of silence with an Eucaristic community here in Broward, Florida.
God bless
 
Jerry_Parker said:
Howdy, Rob,

**You wrote: ** *Hi, Jerry! We are in 2009, & I just realized that I missed this very elaborated considerations on December 2008. Sorry! Well, you have such a encyclopedic knowledge about this whole issue * that is truly difficult to follow you. I mean, there is so much in your contributions.

Let me just mention that lately I’ve had the opportunity to go to two Tridentine masses. The other Sunday it was in the chapell of the SSPX Society, & this last Sunday in a “regular” parish Latin mass. The Bible translation into both English & Spanish are just so great. It is an experience in itself.

Another experience is that the homilies were so great. It is a much greater level of spirituality that I have truly missed in more than 30 years! Sorry for changing the subject momentarily, but couldn’t hold this comments to myself.***God bless, Rob *

Rob, what a sweet spirit you have, and thanks for the compliments. From what I know, Latin Mass traditionalists who use the Tridentine or 1962 Missale Romanum liturgies tend to use the Douay-Rheims-Challoner Version; it is printed in the readings for the Mass in at least two of the 1962-based Latin Missals that I know of (and hope to obtain when my limited revenue as a pensioner permits). How lucky you are to be in a place where the 1962 Latin Mass is offered! The Douay-Rheims-Challoner, of course, is an utterly lovely and lofty translation, worthy of the Bible’s message! The Confraternity Version, too, has dignity and beauty that are lacking in so many of the subsequent 20th century versions.

Jerry Parker

Yeah, Jerry you just captured the special feeling, nothing emotional at all, but the great reverence in those masses. Yes, the translation is quite typical as of those from the DR, but I’ not sure in Spanish, which is also so great.
Yes, we are real lucky. My wife however could make herself quite there with the Tridetine Mass. She needs more time to get into the Latin readings. I just melted into it. Bless be God!
Peace
Rob
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Rob,

**You wrote: ** *Well, being “not sure” about what you understand, you have offered me a valuable info. Particularly your advise on the Prayer of Manasseh it’s really to the point. I’ve amassed quite a bit of prayer material, but is always good to be exposed to somebody that you can rely on. Thank you again.

I’ve been reviewing the meaning of prayer in St. John of the Cross, S.Teresa of Avila, also material about the theology of the mystical life in Jesus, the Jesus’ prayer, liturgy of the hours, lectio divina, etc.*

Rob, I am glad that I was able to help, and it is good to learn from you that my suggestions were useful. I use the “Jesus Prayer”, so dear to Eastern Christianity, in a number of longer and shorter forms and applications a lot. Do you know the Jesus Rosary? I devised my own adaptation of the Jesus Rosary to combine it with, more or less, the Sacred Mysteries of the Marian Rosary. If this interests you, send me a note apart from what appears publically on C.A. and I can supply you with photocopies.

Good luck on your project!

Jerry Parker
 
Jerry Parker;:
I find that the Prayer of Manasseh,
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You’ll find it as an individual book in Anglican Bibles.
is marvellous to study, because it is such a clear and exquisite example of how Biblical people prayed at best and most balanced, with emphasis on contrition.
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My favorite book in the Bible.

jonathon
 
Jonathan,

**Phrases from our messages linked together: ** *The Prayer of Manasseh … [is a deutero-canonical writing that] you’ll find … as an individual book in Anglican Bibles, [one that] is marvellous to study, because it is such a clear and exquisite example of how Biblical people prayed at best and most balanced, with emphasis on contrition. [It is Jonathan’s] favorite book in the Bible. *

It is nice to know, Jonathan, that you esteem and love the profound “Prayer of Manasseh” as much as I do. It is no wonder that the Clementine Latin Vulgate included it in the Vulgate’s appendix (often omitted in printed editions, alas), as too precious to fall totally into disuse or oblivion!

Jerry
 
Rob,

**You wrote, so exquisitely: ** My wife however could make herself quite there with the Tridentine Mass. She needs more time to get into the Latin readings. I just melted into it. Bless[ed] be God!

That is just how I, too, used to feel when I would go to Sunday or weekday early morning Mass (having during those last pre-Novus Ordo years sung in a Gregorian choir for Sunday Solemn High Mass), just “melting into” the Latin Mass. Of course, some priests said it carelessly and with dreadfully Yankee-inflected Latin, but usually that was not the case, when then one would hear the Latin Mass said or sung in its intent beauty. I remember (Long Beach, Calif., mid-1960s) especially an Hispanic priest who would say the weekday 8:00 a.m. Mass, a low celebration without any music or even chanting, who said the Mass in Latin according to the 1962 (or 1965) *Missale Romanum *with slow deliberation, intent devoutness, and pronounced with such lovely and loving grace, letting the text of the old Mass speak for itself in all of its chaste beauty. (This priest was very deficient in English, so did not preside or preach at Sunday services.) I had that feeling, too, of wonder and awe, just “melting into” the Mass itself, feeling that every daily concern or care simply vanished for those moments as I felt a complete union with all that the Holy Liturgy stood for and conveyed. I never have experienced the Mass with such intensity when said according to the 1970 Novus Ordo (in French, English, whatever), though, of course, saying the Novus Ordo at the altar is a legitimate, but in comparison rather bland and chilly, Eucharistic celebration on its own terms.

Jerry Parker
 
Jerry_Parker said:
Rob,

**You wrote: ** *Well, being “not sure” about what you understand, you have offered me a valuable info. Particularly your advise on the Prayer of Manasseh it’s really to the point. I’ve amassed quite a bit of prayer material, but is always good to be exposed to somebody that you can rely on. Thank you again.

I’ve been reviewing the meaning of prayer in St. John of the Cross, S.Teresa of Avila, also material about the theology of the mystical life in Jesus, the Jesus’ prayer, liturgy of the hours, lectio divina, etc.*

Rob, I am glad that I was able to help, and it is good to learn from you that my suggestions were useful. I use the “Jesus Prayer”, so dear to Eastern Christianity, in a number of longer and shorter forms and applications a lot. Do you know the Jesus Rosary? I devised my own adaptation of the Jesus Rosary to combine it with, more or less, the Sacred Mysteries of the Marian Rosary. If this interests you, send me a note apart from what appears publically on C.A. and I can supply you with photocopies.

Good luck on your project!

Jerry Parker
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Sorry I’m responding so late Jerry.
I just came back from my thyroid surgery:blush:. I can’t talk much now but I can certainly write.
Wow, Jerry! I amaze myself getting to know you. I do too, for many years now, have practice the "Jesus’ Prayer’.
Listen, I’m VERY interested in all you have said about your personal experience/adaptacion of that rosary. I mean, I’m interest A LOT.:extrahappy:
If you don’t mine, please write to me directly to ecclesiaprimus@gmail.com. My fax number is (954) 639-7216.
Please, be patient with me cause I don’t have much time to go to my comp for several reasons going on with my time now. Just know that my paucity does not reflect my interest.
God bless you,
rob
 
Rob,

Thanks for your message. I sent you an e-mail as you suggested. The Jesus Rosary forms that I have are not in machine-readable form, so I have to hotocopy them to send to anyone. I hope that you are recovering well!

Jerry Parker
 
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