Best Catholic T-shirt?

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I think it’s wonderful that you are so enthusiastic about sharing your joy in the Church. I agree that the Tiber Swim Team shirt is a good choice, as it invites the question, “What’s that?” And in response to byers, a t-shirt in and of itself is not “unholy”. For instance, Target in Australia is going to be selling WYD t-shirts and other WYD merchandise. The official WYD website wouldn’t be sharing this article, if the act of wearing t-shirts proclaiming your faith was “profane”:

wyd2008.org/index.php/en/media__1/latest_news/world_youth_day_2008_and_target_launch_clothing_range
 
Okay, I feel really stupid. What is this Tiber River Swim Team?

And, I’m sorry to say because I feel stupid (since I don’t know) I wouldn’t ask someone with that t-shirt and I might think they were into their own little la -de-da stuck up world! No offense meant. I’m just sort of a down to earth person.
 
CAROLOFTHEBELLS, your questions are good and thought-provoking. You ask if we would have been open to hearing about Catholicism back when we were Protestant.

I would say yes, we would have been very open to knowledgeable Catholics talking to us about their Church.

First of all, we both came from families and churches that did not denigrate Catholicism. Both of our families have Catholic members, and for this reason alone, people were always civil about Catholics (in my family, Uncle Paul was probably the most beloved and popular family member because of his kindness).

We were extremely fortunate to be involved in evangelical churches that did NOT label the Catholic Church as the “whore of Babylon.” My pastor (Conference Baptist) was a police chaplain, and for this reason was friends with quite a few Catholic priests. He was often seen about town in the company of these priests.

I realize that to many traditionally-minded Catholics, Vatican II was a disaster, but looking at it from the evangelical Protestant point of view, it was a wonderful miracle because when the Catholic Church “opened the windows”, Protestants were finally able to look in and gape a little! Many of the Catholic priests in our city started “associating” with Protestant pastors and becoming friends with them, and Catholic lay people stopped hiding in their churches and started having religious dialogues with Protestants.

All of this was absolutely invaluable in helping to dissipate negativity about Catholicism and stop a lot of the “Catholic bashing,” at least in our city.

Of course there were fundamentalist (separatist) Protestant churches that continued to preach a very anti-Catholic rhetoric, but in my church, I heard nothing but praise for the Catholic church. This made a very favorable impression on me as a young child and teenager, and I believe helped me to stay open to Catholicism throughout my life.

Secondly, while my husband and I were raising our family, we were actively involved in the pro-life movement (1980s, early 1990s,) and this put us in contact with many Catholics. I also did work with Bread for the World for many years, which also involved me with many Catholics, including priests and religious.

I never had any doubts that Catholics were Christians. I just thought they “added stuff” to the Bible!

Thirdly, my husband and I have always “hungered for righteousness.” Many times, we have stood against our own Protestant churches. Back when we were first married, we were involved in the “Simple Lifetstyle” movement that swept through evangelical churches–this movement was embraced by evangelicals like Billy Graham and most prominently, the firebrand Ron Sider. Eventually the movement died out–it’s not very fun to live “simply” instead of embracing materialism! But to this day, we live a much simpler lifestyle than many of our friends due to the influence of this movement in our younger days.

Another issue where we have often been at odds with our Protestant churches is the pro-life issue. In our Christian and Missionary Alliance church, the pastors refused to get involved with the visible pro-life activities in our city because it would “contaminate” their church with dubious Christian teachings (in other words, expose the members to “Catholics”!–the C and MA is rather anti-Catholic). My husband and CHALLENGED the pastor and told him point-blank that if HE didn’t get involved, his people wouldn’t get involved. It too a few years, but he finally announced one Sunday that he and his wife would be present at the annual rally at the capitol in our city and hoped that many church members would join him . Hundreds showed up.

In the last Protestant church that we were involved in, we constantly challenged our “Christian Worldview” Sunday school class. These people lived in a Christian fortress and threw salvos at the non-Christians without actually coming out and evangelizing them. We constantly condemned this “Fortress” mentality and challenged them to live their faith publically, not withdraw from the public. (A really good resource for this kind of thinking is John Fischer–here’s a link: fischtank.com/ft/inthetank.cfm)).

Anyway, my husband believes that it was this “hunger for righteousness” that God used to lead us into the Catholic church. We’re not saying that other Protestants don’t hunger for righteousness, but for us, it was the main focus of our Christianity, rather than “the Word of God” or “ministry” or “praise and worship.” We wanted RIGHTEOUSNESS!

And for these reasons, I believe that we would have been very open to listening to intelligent and knowledgeable Catholics talk about their church.
 
continued from last post:

CAROLOFTHEBELLS, I hope you don’t mind if I continue answering your questions.

When we first decided to actively learn more about Catholicism, we attended an Apologetics Class in our local parish that was taught by a professor of Anthropology, a former evangelical pastor and fellow convert to the Catholic Church. (In fact, he and his wife had attended the Conference Baptist church where I grew up!) This class gave us PRACTICAL knowledge of the Catholic Church.

We already KNEW that Catholics were good people and real Christians. A “quiet” witness was NOT what we as evangelicals needed. We needed FACTS, HISTORY, and KNOWLEDGE, and that’s what this class gave us. We are incredibly lucky to have wandered into this class (the Holy Spirit is good!).

Some posters mentioned in this thread that Catholics should witness by their “holiness.” Well, I have news for you–for many evangelicals, the fact that Catholics drink alcohol negates ALL your holiness. Evangelicals are becoming more open to the idea of drinking alcohol for pleasure (not Nyquil), but many evangelicals are total abstainers and believe that alcohol consumption is NOT an option for Christians.

You can disagree all you like, and you are correct Biblically, but that doesn’t matter! That beer in your frig is enough to convince many evangelicals that you are NOT holy and possibly not Christian!

So your “holiness” won’t impress them at all.

You see, evangelicals live incredibly holy lives. Not only do they abstain from alcohol, but many abstain from any drugs, including caffeine. Many avoid gluttony and any form of immoderate living or vices. Smoking is absolutely forbidden in many evangelical churches. I know evangelical families who will NOT bring the newspaper into their home, or if they do bring it into their home, they CUT OUT and burn the horoscope before bringing the newspaper in. Many do not own televisions and never attend movies other than films produced by evangelicals.

Many evangelicals attend a church function daily, so your daily mass won’t impress them. Many evangelicals rise early in the morning to spend an hour studying the Bible and praying.

I’m NOT saying that all these actions make evangelicals holier than you. I know from experience that there is a lot of hidden sinning in evangelical families and a lot of guilt and angst.

What I’m saying is that you are probably not going to be able to witness to evangelicals with a holy life, because they have you beat. You HAVE to use words with many evangelicals. That’s what they need!

One more thing–CAROL, I agree that we should attend concerts and enjoy being with other believers. I agree with the Catechism–they are separated brethren, and there is a good chance that they will share heaven with Catholics.

But you are wrong that we shouldn’t seek to evangelize them. When we were evangelical Protestants, we lived in a HOVEL, a tent, a miserable lodging that had only bits and pieces of full Christianity, while you Catholics lived in a CASTLE full of treasures. You had the Eucharist, Jesus Himself, while we had a piece of Wonder bread.

How can you justify walking by evangelical Protestants in their wretched poverty while you wallow in the riches of Christ? How can you let them swallow dry Wonder Bread while you feast on the Bread of Angels?

I maintain that “t-shirt” witnessing is a very good way to attract the interest of evangelical Protestants and make them think. I suspect that many of them are in the same situation as me and my husband–hungering and thirsting after righteousness, but no one will give them anything. We must give them the Catholic Church, because that is where they will be with Jesus in His Fullness.
 
I dont know if any of you have infants and toddlers but my husbands cousin has come out with a line of clothing for them which are Pro-Life wear for them. Here is the link to her website. This would be good if you know of someone who is expecting or has had a newborn recently.

teenieweeniewitnesswear.com/

Check these out. They are real cute. Just tell Karen that Georgia sent ya and she will fix ya right up.
 
CAROLOFTHEBELLS said:
Okay, I feel really stupid. What is this Tiber River Swim Team?

And, I’m sorry to say because I feel stupid (since I don’t know) I wouldn’t ask someone with that t-shirt and I might think they were into their own little la -de-da stuck up world! No offense meant. I’m just sort of a down to earth person.
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The Tiber River is a river that runs through Rome and The Tiber River Swim Team refers to those of us who are not cradle Catholics but have come into the Church as adults. We swam the Tiber.
 
There is a clothing line started by Tarek Saab that has subtle Catholic clothing. lionheartapparel.com/

I have never heard anything from the Vatican that wearing such outward signs of faith is wrong and besides we should be very happy we live in places where we have the freedom to wear such items. Anyone going to the Olympics in Beijing? Try walking around wearing a Jesus or Catholic tshirt and see how far you get! I heard a homily on ewtn recently about a saint (I forget his name) who encouraged people to put a sign containing the Holy name of Jesus above their door to counteract the common practice, of that place and time, of people putting magic talismans and such things above their doors.
 
CAROLOFTHEBELLS said:
Okay, I feel really stupid. What is this Tiber River Swim Team?

And, I’m sorry to say because I feel stupid (since I don’t know) I wouldn’t ask someone with that t-shirt and I might think they were into their own little la -de-da stuck up world! No offense meant. I’m just sort of a down to earth person.
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Why would you think someone was “into their own little la -de-da stuck up world!” because of a T-shirt like that? Would you feel the same if it said “State University Swim Team”? Or any other club or league the wearer belonged to?

Note I’m not objecting, I’m just a little curious/mystified.

Before I came to these fora, I would have assumed a literal translation: that the wearer belonged to a swim team that swam the Tiber. 🤷 I might not have asked for clarification, thinking I didn’t need it. I have, tho’, used T-shirt inscriptions as a conversation starter.
 
Ghoti said:
Why would you think someone was “into their own little la -de-da stuck up world!” because of a T-shirt like that? Would you feel the same if it said “State University Swim Team”? Or any other club or league the wearer belonged to?

Note I’m not objecting, I’m just a little curious/mystified.

Before I came to these fora, I would have assumed a literal translation: that the wearer belonged to a swim team that swam the Tiber. 🤷 I might not have asked for clarification, thinking I didn’t need it. I have, tho’, used T-shirt inscriptions as a conversation starter.
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Because if a t-shirt says something that hardly anyone can understand and people have to ask or figure out what it means, I think they they are trying to call attention to themselves and whatever they are into. I feel the same way about people who use shirts to promote drugs, beer, sex, products. Those are conversation starters too. Just my opinion, but I think it’s phony and showy. Wear a regular shirt and just talk to people.

If the shirt said “State University Swim Team” I would think that the person was on the State University Swim Team. The same way that if the shirt said St. Paul’s Catholic Church I would think that the person was a member of St. Paul’s Catholic Church. That would be self explanatory. If I wanted to talk to the person about the University Swim Team or the parish and ask what it is like and how they like it, etc, then I would feel comfortable doing so. It’s not tricky and makes the person seem easy to approach.

To those who answered my question, thanks for taking the time. I actually googled Tiber River after asking and found the answer, plus other things, such as the river being associated with a Roman god.
 
CAROLOFTHEBELLS said:
Because if a t-shirt says something that hardly anyone can understand and people have to ask or figure out what it means, I think they they are trying to call attention to themselves and whatever they are into. I feel the same way about people who use shirts to promote drugs, beer, sex, products. Those are conversation starters too. Just my opinion, but I think it’s phony and showy. Wear a regular shirt and just talk to people.

If the shirt said “State University Swim Team” I would think that the person was on the State University Swim Team. The same way that if the shirt said St. Paul’s Catholic Church I would think that the person was a member of St. Paul’s Catholic Church. That would be self explanatory. If I wanted to talk to the person about the University Swim Team or the parish and ask what it is like and how they like it, etc, then I would feel comfortable doing so. It’s not tricky and makes the person seem easy to approach.

To those who answered my question, thanks for taking the time. I actually googled Tiber River after asking and found the answer, plus other things, such as the river being associated with a Roman god.
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One of the main reasons for wearing t-shirts is to promote something that is unfamiliar to people. My whole family has been involved for years (almost twenty) with the great sport of synchronized skating. Have you ever heard of it? Probably not if you are like most people in the U.S. And so we have a large selection of t-shirts that many of us wear to get people to ask us. We WANT them to ask us about our t-shirt because that’s one way that we promote our sport. (Synchronized skating receives no promotion on television and very little promotion at ice shows like Stars on Ice, etc.–the only way you will learn about it is through fanatics like me who are wearing t-shirts, etc! And actually, I’ll tell people about the sport whether I’m wearing a t-shirt or not!)

Here is a link to just one synchro shirt that many of us like:

rainbosports.com/shop/site/product.cfm/id/4AC59674-475A-BAC0-5C3A5C0AD883E860

Yes, it is probably something that many people don’t understand what it means and they have to ask to find out–and that’s just what we want you to do! That’s not a bad thing–it’s fun! I often ask people about their shirts or bumper stickers–I think it’s fun to be mystified and then seek the solution to the “mystery!” That’s not a bad thing at all.

As for the “Tiber Swim Team” logo–as a convert, I think that this is a fun, non-confrontational way to start conversations. One of the biggest barriers to witnessing to evangelical Protestants is their arrogance–please remember that I was evangelical Protestant for over 40 years, and I honestly thought I knew it ALL. I would have willingly accepted an assignment to debate the Pope, indeed, ALL the Popes, and I honestly thought that I wold make hay out of all their “incorrect” theology with my vast knowledge of the Bible! I’m sure many of you have run across this in your Protestant friends. It’s the way we were trained–we were told that we have it all.

Most Protestants have no idea what the Tiber River is and when we explain, they realize (to their dismay!) that there may be a lot of OTHER things that they don’t know either, and this makes them go “hmmm, maybe I don’t know it all. Maybe I should investigate this Catholic Church and at least then I’ll know how to argue against it!” And then they investigate and discover that it’s the True Church of Jesus Christ!

Just like when people watch synchronized skating, they discover that it is truly, in the words of a Croatian Olympic Committee Member, “the most beautiful ice-skating sport.” If you want to see the sport for yourself, take a look at this gorgeous link: youtube.com/watch?v=ksnNHytIz4s

I’ve watched it dozens of times and it still makes me cry.
 
Cat,

I’ve been trying not to respond, but my feelings are getting the better of me.

I get turned off by people who think they know it all no matter what religion. Whether they are converts or not. Whether they think they know better than Catholics or whether they think they know better than “Protestants”. As myself and another poster said, it is a matter of practicing humility, not a matter of which side is better or needs evangelzing.

Thanks for informing me about all the rotten things that evangelicals think about Catholics. Maybe I will think twice before going to one of those concerts that I have always wanted to attend. Obviously, there would be a bunch of people there who, if they really knew me, would hate me or look down on me. Wow, I thought the focus was somewhere different, like above.

Not only do I personally know about the prejudice that Catholics have gone through, I know it goes back generations. My Irish-Catholic grandmother had to struggle to be hired as a teacher because she was met with signs that said no Catholics wanted. We are talking about the kind of prejudice that keeps people from making a living and eating.

I have developed my own prejudices and I ask God to keep me away from such thoughts. I treat others fairly and I try not to talk about these thoughts when I have them, lest they grow. But just to give you a *glimse *of what I have thought and have struggled with and asked God to overcome, I could say that Evangelicals and Fundalmentalists have churches that were opened up yesterday or maybe 50 or 100 years ago tops. They worship in converted storefronts and follow men (and women) who tell them what to believe after getting a minister’s license from the state. Their congregations are full of people who have abused drugs and alcohol - or possibly gang banged - who think that because they “found” Jesus that everyone else has lost him. They say that they believe it is a sin to drink alcohol, but they really are afraid that if they do they will fall back into old patterns. They judge others because they themselves were not prudent about how they drank or someone in their family was an abuser of alcohol. Some of them are perfectly normal people who have perfectly normal pasts, but for some reason they never heard of Jesus or the Bible before! They “witness” to life long Catholics by telling them how bad their church and their beliefs are in so-called efforts to save souls all the while insulting them and ripping them apart. Great example of Jesus! They think that because they have spent their lives searching and going from church to church, person to person, addiction to addiction, or because they have tried to live a good live but no one told them about Jesus and they felt empty and unsatisfied until they suddenly “found” Jesus, that EVERYONE needs to BE TOLD what they struggled to find out or where to blind to see. They live in a country where Christianity is out there, yet for some reason they think that no one has ever told them about Jesus. They think that everyone else is just as blind or ignorant, while all along good Catholics (Lutherans, etc) have been living their lives without drugs and alcohol (not all of us have beer in the fridge), going to church, praying, living normal Christian lives.

I know that if I assume all these things I am only categorizing people. Putting them into a mold that they may not fit into and generalizing them. Sinning against the Creator, by judging his Creation and what is in their soul. That would mean I don’t truly walk with Jesus. Even to write these things now is a sin. What you wrote and what I wrote, perhaps needs to be talked about out in the open. But, as for me, it has just upset me and stirs up bad feelings. In fact, I am very angry at evangelicals because of what you wrote and it will take me a while of calming myself and prayer to get it out of my system. I now need to focus on God and not on our divisions or who needs to be evangelized (changed?).

You are in a unique position to try to help people (on both sides) out of their prejudice and you are a good speaker. Seeking opportunities to speak at non-Catholic churches would probably reach people and promote better understanding, lessen misconceptions and prejudice.
 
Cat,

I could not fit all this in, but also wanted to say this.

I know about promotional materials. It has been my duty to purchase them for one of my jobs. I worked for a literacy program and we did have a couple of t-shirts. I’m not one for wearing something like that outside of an event, but that is just me. As I said, creating a parish t-shirt with a mission statement on the back would be good for what you are looking for and also be a good fund raising effort within your church. Maybe your parish has one already but you could come up with an additional design that might be more eye catching and have that extra statement on it. It sounds like you would be good at it.

I have thought about it and I think that the reason I didn’t like the idea of the Tiber River shirt is that one person here mentioned it and another said something like oh yeah, that would be good. I felt left out and stupid. Then I said so. Now I know why, because it is mostly something that a Protestant would know about, although I still think that it could be confusing or just not impressive to many people.

If I was walking around or at a concert and I saw someone with that shirt I might think I was geographically challenged because I had no idea where the Tiber River was. I watch Jeapordy every night and now that I know it will help me, but before I would have wondered what the heck kind of river it was that people had excusions where they joined a swim team to go up it. Like, does it have natural pools that you swim from one to the other, or what?! If I was to ask someone anything about the shirt it would be so that I could learn where the Tiber River is and why there would be a swim team. But once I found out what the shirt was about, if I was a non-Catholic, I’m not sure I would care. Even being a Catholic, if you didn’t seem friendly I just would not ask. I mean, if you were all into talking to your family and/or friends and not paying attention to little old me I would, as I said, think you were just into your own little world. Now, if you seemed approachable and I asked about the shirt and you told me what it meant, then I would love to talk to you about it. However, if you told me details that you did here about your past churches and all the terrible things that you used to think about Catholics I would feel bad and regret that I asked. I think the entire thing is a tricky situation and you never know how people are going to react or what effect you are having.

I have to say just one more thing that I really truly feel. Although I have one side of my family with generations of Catholics, I feel more attached to Israel and the Holy Land than to Rome. That is what I associate the roots of Christianity to and I think many of us, for all Christian faiths, would feel that. I think the River Jordan is much more important than the Tiber River. I would totally get the idea of a River Jordan Swim Team shirt. That would say to me that being baptized with Christ is where it’s at. I guess it’s just me, but I would rather see something that could get us to talk about our similarities than our differences.

That’s really all I have to say about the subject.
 
CAROLOFTHEBELLS said:
Cat,

I could not fit all this in, but also wanted to say this.

I know about promotional materials. It has been my duty to purchase them for one of my jobs. I worked for a literacy program and we did have a couple of t-shirts. I’m not one for wearing something like that outside of an event, but that is just me. As I said, creating a parish t-shirt with a mission statement on the back would be good for what you are looking for and also be a good fund raising effort within your church. Maybe your parish has one already but you could come up with an additional design that might be more eye catching and have that extra statement on it. It sounds like you would be good at it.

I have thought about it and I think that the reason I didn’t like the idea of the Tiber River shirt is that one person here mentioned it and another said something like oh yeah, that would be good. I felt left out and stupid. Then I said so. Now I know why, because it is mostly something that a Protestant would know about, although I still think that it could be confusing or just not impressive to many people.

If I was walking around or at a concert and I saw someone with that shirt I might think I was geographically challenged because I had no idea where the Tiber River was. I watch Jeapordy every night and now that I know it will help me, but before I would have wondered what the heck kind of river it was that people had excusions where they joined a swim team to go up it. Like, does it have natural pools that you swim from one to the other, or what?! If I was to ask someone anything about the shirt it would be so that I could learn where the Tiber River is and why there would be a swim team. But once I found out what the shirt was about, if I was a non-Catholic, I’m not sure I would care. Even being a Catholic, if you didn’t seem friendly I just would not ask. I mean, if you were all into talking to your family and/or friends and not paying attention to little old me I would, as I said, think you were just into your own little world. Now, if you seemed approachable and I asked about the shirt and you told me what it meant, then I would love to talk to you about it. However, if you told me details that you did here about your past churches and all the terrible things that you used to think about Catholics I would feel bad and regret that I asked. I think the entire thing is a tricky situation and you never know how people are going to react or what effect you are having.

I have to say just one more thing that I really truly feel. Although I have one side of my family with generations of Catholics, I feel more attached to Israel and the Holy Land than to Rome. That is what I associate the roots of Christianity to and I think many of us, for all Christian faiths, would feel that. I think the River Jordan is much more important than the Tiber River. I would totally get the idea of a River Jordan Swim Team shirt. That would say to me that being baptized with Christ is where it’s at. I guess it’s just me, but I would rather see something that could get us to talk about our similarities than our differences.

That’s really all I have to say about the subject.
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???

I don’t understand this at all. I didn’t think terrible things about Catholics while I was evangelical Protestant. I thought I had made it clear in my post that I and my husband were raised to think good things about Catholics and that my pastor taught us to think good things about the Catholic Church? I described my associations with Catholics while I was involved with Bread for the World and the pro-life movements.

Are you sure that you are referring to my post? Perhaps it was someone else who gave you the impression that evangelicals think bad things about Catholics.

If it was me, I APOLOGIZE HUGELY! I’m so sorry for not being a better writer and making my thoughts clearer! In no way did I intend to give the impression that evangelical Protestants think poorly of Catholics! Please accept my apologies for writing a confusing post.
 
CAROLOFTHEBELLS said:
Cat,

I could not fit all this in, but also wanted to say this.

I know about promotional materials. It has been my duty to purchase them for one of my jobs. I worked for a literacy program and we did have a couple of t-shirts. I’m not one for wearing something like that outside of an event, but that is just me. As I said, creating a parish t-shirt with a mission statement on the back would be good for what you are looking for and also be a good fund raising effort within your church. Maybe your parish has one already but you could come up with an additional design that might be more eye catching and have that extra statement on it. It sounds like you would be good at it.

I have thought about it and I think that the reason I didn’t like the idea of the Tiber River shirt is that one person here mentioned it and another said something like oh yeah, that would be good. I felt left out and stupid. Then I said so. ** Now I know why, because it is mostly something that a Protestant would know about, although I still think that it could be confusing or just not impressive to many people.**
If I was walking around or at a concert and I saw someone with that shirt I might think I was geographically challenged because I had no idea where the Tiber River was. I watch Jeapordy every night and now that I know it will help me, but before I would have wondered what the heck kind of river it was that people had excusions where they joined a swim team to go up it. Like, does it have natural pools that you swim from one to the other, or what?! If I was to ask someone anything about the shirt it would be so that I could learn where the Tiber River is and why there would be a swim team. But once I found out what the shirt was about, if I was a non-Catholic, I’m not sure I would care. Even being a Catholic, if you didn’t seem friendly I just would not ask. I mean, if you were all into talking to your family and/or friends and not paying attention to little old me I would, as I said, think you were just into your own little world. Now, if you seemed approachable and I asked about the shirt and you told me what it meant, then I would love to talk to you about it. However, if you told me details that you did here about your past churches and all the terrible things that you used to think about Catholics I would feel bad and regret that I asked. I think the entire thing is a tricky situation and you never know how people are going to react or what effect you are having.

I have to say just one more thing that I really truly feel. Although I have one side of my family with generations of Catholics, I feel more attached to Israel and the Holy Land than to Rome. That is what I associate the roots of Christianity to and I think many of us, for all Christian faiths, would feel that. I think the River Jordan is much more important than the Tiber River. I would totally get the idea of a River Jordan Swim Team shirt. That would say to me that being baptized with Christ is where it’s at. I guess it’s just me, but I would rather see something that could get us to talk about our similarities than our differences.

That’s really all I have to say about the subject.
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Boldface mine–I said that most Protestants would NOT know about the Tiber River. Here’s the quote from my post: " Most Protestants have no idea what the Tiber River is …"

I get the impression that you are a quiet, peace-loving person who does not easily chat with strangers and who avoids confrontation.

I am just the opposite–I love to chat with anyone, especially about my faith, and I am never one to back away from a confrontation, even when I am outnumbered and out of my league intellectually!

The Body of Christ has all kinds of people and all are needed to help build up the Kingdom of God.
 
Well, I am a lifelong Catholic and I find it hard to listen to recent converts from evangelical denominations spout off about “how catholics should…” this or that and why. That is be more ‘like evangelicals’ in all kinds of ways, such as advertising their religion on a t-shirt. It makes them sound so incredibly full of themselves.

Then they all go on about how there is nothing wrong with it etc. and start discussions about pros and cons etc. and how helpful it can be, bring people into the church and on and on. The old back and forth like in protestant churches…where we all “discuss” these techniques and what works and why.

This is protestant thinking. And one of the hardest things I notice for converts from evangelicalism is that it takes them awhile to stop “thinking like an evangelical” instead of “thinking like Catholic.” Of course this takes time.

Someone who has been a catholic a few years spouting off their own ideas on what “they” think is just fine and why “they” think it’s fine, and then giving all kinds of “their” reasons to to someone who has been a practicing catholic for say over 50 years is a person lacking in humility and unwilling to learn. It would appear they already know it all. And they are going to make sure to teach these old catholics a thing or two. At least that is what it sounds like to old catholic ears.

I wonder where do they get this boldness and audacity??
Shouldn’t a fairly new convert be more concerned with wanting to learn the catholic way of thinking and looking at things? If I were new to anything including a religion instead of acting like a know it all about things, I would realize I have much to learn before I express my opinion on anything!

I would instead seek to study and learn from the ‘veterans’ so to speak because they might actually have something of value to teach me. What they are exhibiting without realizing it is flagrant pride.

And no, one really should not be “proud” to be Catholic…as if you had made a sports team. This is not something “you” accomplished and should be proud of yourself. This is something from God. You didn’t do it…God had mercy on you.

One should be grateful to God in deepest humility for granting them the mercy to find the truth…and keep their ears and eyes open and their mouths shut for a few years while trying to learn to think live and act like a catholic.

And no of course you can argue it’s not a sin to wear a t-shirt, because it isn’t…it just crass, lacking in taste, and lacking true respect for HIS SACRED Name.

It makes you seem more interested in being all puffed up and proud because you’re catholic and feeling you are all qualified now to go out “evangelizing”…with your t-shirts or whatever. the same thing you did as an evangelical.
Being former evangelical Protestant means that I am able to correctly assess what will be effective in witnessing to evangelical Protestants, and what will fall flat and fail and offend them. This is something that you as a cradle Catholic can never do–understand the mind of an evangelical Protestant
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.

This sentence expresses the sentiment I am referring to. The Church has been evangelizing for over 2000 years, I think you can trust them to be able to evangelize protestants too. You see you think you know better than the church how this should be done. What arrogance.

I truly believe it would be a great help for former evangelicals to spent a great deal of time reading the lives of as many saints as they can - and of course there are thousands to choose from among-…because YOU are the ones who have much to learn, especially about humility and holiness.
They have to be TOLD Verbally
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And here is a another typical comment. NO you are wrong they do NOT have to be told verbally…they need your prayer and God will call and lead them. You can’t seem to understand that YOU are not in charge of doing it…God is. Just pray and be ready to answer with meekness and humility as scripture says, IF they ask the reason for the hope in you. You are confusing recruiting with evangelizing.

And one last point I want to mention was from a post about holiness, that shows most evangelicals have no understanding of the meaning of this word. You are confusing outward behavior and esthetics , such as not drinking alcohol, avoiding horoscopes etc…with holiness, which is humility of the soul and has nothing really to do with these outward signs or “show” of holiness. You are too worried about “evangelizing” others and not worried enough about pleasing God by growing in virtue and holiness, before you can be of any help to anyone else.

You come into the Church and very soon you know more than God and his 2000 year old Church, and certainly more than anyone who has been catholic their whole lives…so since you already know it all. I have nothing more to say.

Our Lady of Mercy…pray for them.
 
byers,

Thank you for your comments. I will certainly consider them.

I apologize to God and all His people if in any way, I have come across as someone who knows more than His Church. Never, never, never, never, NEVER!

I agree that no one can be brought into the Church by a human being. But I believe that the Holy Spirit gifts human beings to do the work of God, including the work of evangelism, and that Jesus charged us with His Great Commission to go out into all the world and preach the Gospel.

We cannot refuse to speak out and do His Work out of “humility.”

I have read several good biographies of saints. It seems to me that many of them did NOT live quiet lives and wait for non-Catholics to come to them. St. Francis and St. Anthony of Padua come to mind, along with St. Ignatius Loyala. Even Blessed Mother Teresa spoke out to non-believers.

These people went OUT and spoke the Gospel. They also lived it in their work. They were used by the Holy Spirit to bring many people into the Church.

I suspect that there is a balance. There are those who are called to a quiet life of prayer and living out their faith in simple goodness, while there are others who are called to be more verbal in their witness.

Certain Protestant converts (e.g., Tim Staples, Scott Hahn, etc.) are very verbal, while other converts–well, we’ve never heard of them. And that’s OK. Are you accusing Staples and Hahn of arrogance because they cannot keep silent? I am not accusing quiet people of slacking.

I believe that the Church does know how to reach out to evangelicals, and that’s why books like Thomas Howard’s Evangelical Is Not Enough are recommended by many in the Church. The Catholic Church does NOT tell evangelical converts to be quiet.

byers, I appreciate your comments, but please try to see it from my point of view even as I try to see it from yours. I see my relatives and friends living in miserable hovels floundering about in the slimy muck created by sola Scriptura. Many of them switch from church to church trying desperately to find a church that preaches and lives the Word of God.

Meanwhile, I have been fortunate enough, through the entire leading of the Holy Spirit (not through anything that I have done) to live in a fabulous castle full of treasures that I can enjoy every minute. I have the Lord Himself in the Blessed Sacrament. I have the Sacraments and all the wonders and glories of the Catholic Church.

What I hear you saying is that I should pray for my relatives and friends, but not say a word.

NO! I cannot do this! If it’s arrogance, so be it.

I want my loved ones to be here, in the Catholic Church.

byers, they don’t understand! To them, the Catholic Church is the Great Whore of Babylon! Many of them are praying for ME and my husband to please leave this cult of Babylonian goddess worship.

And you say I should just keep my mouth shut and let the CHURCH bring them in? They turn their backs on the Church, close their eyes, plug their ears, and run away, not out of wickedness, but because they honestly believe that the Catholic Church is of Satan.

They won’t listen to the Church.

But…they might listen to me, one who knows what they know and has experienced what they experience. At one time, they trusted me. They have NEVER trusted the Catholic Church.

There is a passage in the Bible that I can’t put my finger on right now where we are told that a rich man says, “Live well, have a good life, be happy,” but he doesn’t offer the poor anything. We are told that we need to give to the poor, not just wish them the best.

I wish I had more time to reply, but work calls. Sorry.
 
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