Best explanation for Mary's FAVORED, SINLESS STATUS?

[PJM]

=brb3;10168928]For the record …I do hold to the other 3 Marian Dogma. Why is the IC such a difficult one to reason thru ?

DON"T know?

For me its the easiest…

God is Perfect

Even God Incrnate HAD TO remian Perfect

So Mary HAD TO BE Perfect

So that Christ would be Perfect:thumbsup:

God Bless,
Pat

 

[GaryTaylor]

“That is why Scripture says of her bodily forms and disclplines that they are all wonderful, praised and glorious. For she loved learning and was an excellent student; she was an expert in every good subject and filled with understanding of the Divine Scriptures and with all wisdom, because She was to become the Mother of the Word and Wisdom of God. She was clever with words and had a pleasant voice, as it is written; “she opened her mouth with wisdom and imposed order in her speech” [Prov. 31.25], for these words of Solomon were also spoken of her, and also with the following, “she is clothed in her strength and beauty” [Prov. 31.26], by the grace and power that was born from her.” [Life of the Virgin, Maximus the Confessor pg 43]

 

[Jerry-Jet]

What I’ve always wanted to know is how Mary differed from pre-fall Eve? Does anyone know?

They were both sinless–Mary was full of grace–how did God’s grace differ in pre-fall Eve versus Mary?

I do know that Mary and Jesus were capable of suffering. Was pre-fall Eve capable of suffering? I don’t think she was. Is it true that pre-fall Adam and pre-fall Eve weren’t passable and hence were protected from suffering?

Pre-fall Adam and Eve walked and talked with God–without concupiscence–did that differ any from the way Mary interacted with God?

I know I may be asking some difficult questions here–I have always thought that pre-fall Adam and Eve were indeed different than us–I THINK that Mary and Jesus are like them in some respects but different than them in some respects–I just don’t have a clear view of that and I wish someone would help me with my ignorance of the differences.

I have heard it said that concupiscence was bound away from Mary so that it would have NO effect but in Jesus wasn’t present at all–I don’t know if that is true or not? I think I read that from Ott. I think it might have been a saint’s opinion.

I know that Jesus had different aspects and properties concerning His body concerning His glorified body versus His body before the resurrection.

I don’t think that Jesus ever experienced illness such as a cold–I don’t think that pre-fall Adam and Eve could experience illness such as a cold.

I don’t know if it was possible for Mary to experience illness such as a cold. Was it possible? Or was it possible but didn’t happen because the Lord made sure that Mary wouldn’t be sick because of the mission she would have to complete by being the mother of Jesus and a help to the early church?

I don’t know the answers to these questions and maybe some of them are unknowable–I do know that Mary was given the grace to be sinless so that Jesus could inherit His perfect humanity from her so He could be the perfect sacrifice for us.

 

[1protestant]

Yes, but don’t we become fully graced, thru faith, confession, baptism & confirmation ?
THIS IS THE NORMATIVE MEANS to our adoption into Christ.

So, wouldn’t we of anticipated/ deduced that Christ might wish to start/build his Church via coming into this world thru the Normative Standard he established for us being used to first purify our Mother Mary ?

it is interesting to see the necessity of this belief or doctrune–

because the cathoic church accepts marian apparitions

In some apparitions such as Our Lady of Lourdes or Our Lady of Fátima an actual vision is reported, fully resembling that of a person being present. In some of these reports the viewers (at times children) do not initially report that they saw the Virgin Mary, but that they saw “a Lady” (often but not always dressed in white) and had a conversation with her. In these cases the viewers report experiences that resemble the visual and verbal interaction with a person present at the site of the apparition.

In most cases, there are no clear indications as to the auditory nature of the experience, i.e. whether the viewers heard the voices via airwaves or an “interior” or subjective sense of communication.

Yet, the 1973 messages of Our Lady of Akita are due to Sister Agnes Katsuko Sasagawa who went deaf before 1973 and remained deaf until 1982 when she was cured during Sunday Mass as foretold in her messages; this suggests means of communication other than airwaves.

this seems that your doctrune dosen’t really matter-- because of current apparition’s

but it is helpful to see if this doctrune "fits-into the " the TORAH , as jesus said he would or did not come to change that,

BUT it is interesting to see the appearences of “Mary” on U-tube

and gee i have to wonder why no one asked “her” what she believes?

 

[ffg]

IMO, Duns Scotus’ explanation is Problematic ? It makes Mary an ‘other worldly’ creature, unlike the rest of mankind. Yet, the first century Christians didn’t see Mary as different from themselves. So, I don’t think they saw her as enjoying an Immaculate Conception birth.

Am I making a mistake to think the Apostles and early Christians didn’t see an IC for Mary ?

How is perfection supposed to come into the world, through imperfection? Is that logical?

Does that mean the delivery vehicle for perfection needs to look different than regular delivery trucks?

 

[Evan]

How is perfection supposed to come into the world, through imperfection? Is that logical?

Does that mean the delivery vehicle for perfection needs to look different than regular delivery trucks?

Of course, the perfect can enter the world through imperfection. Imperfection does not rub off. If something is perfect it is perfect in itself, not relative to others. If it were relative to others that would only be better, not perfect.

As to the reason for the IC:

If our first mother (Eve, mother of all the living) failed, and chose sin although she we immaculately conceived;

Then to undo the sin of Eve (the new Eve) God sought out a new mother, who, living in this world, was able to choose NOT to sin, to choose God over self, to freely choose without reference to a fallen nature.

So Mary, to make the proper choice, to be the new Eve, had to have the same advance as Eve, Immaculately conceived and able to choose for God rather than for Self.