Bethlehem has become a 'prison'

[Matt25]

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4558470.stm

Israel’s most senior Roman Catholic leader said Bethlehem has become an “immense prison” since the erection of the West Bank barrier. The Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem, Michel Sabbah, called for all barriers between people to be dismantled The patriarch was speaking in Bethlehem, where he will celebrate the traditional Christmas Eve mass. Israel says the barrier is needed to keep out Palestinian attackers, but Palestinians regard it as a land grab.

The patriarch, who is the Pope’s representative in Israel, called for the wall’s dismantling, and said “bridges of peace and love” should be built instead. He defended the rights of Palestinians to have their own homeland and live free of occupation.

                                                        http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41156000/jpg/_41156604_sabbah203b.jpg                 Michel Sabbah said winning hearts was the key to peace

But he said those who held power had to realise that they could not rule through violence, but only by winning the hearts of both Palestinians and Israelis.

“Nobody needs checkpoints in the Holy Land,” he said, according to Israel Radio “This is the Holy Land and it should be treated as a holy area. We wish that this road will stay open so all Christian pilgrims can enter every day of the year, every year.”

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

I am disappointed with JPII that he appointed this man as Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem. It’s been widely documented that he has either given material support or moral support to the terrorists in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (not sure if this was before or after the late Pope appointed him).

 

[Matt25]

Semper Fi:

I am disappointed with JPII that he appointed this man as Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem. It’s been widely documented that he has either given material support or moral support to the terrorists in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (not sure if this was before or after the late Pope appointed him).

What documents in particular do you have in mind?

 

[Matt25]

indcatholicnews.com/messlatpatr.html

**Message of hope from Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem

…** To our political leaders who, by their policy, can decide for the life or the death of so many in this land, we say: Be builders of life, not of death. Understand, after such a long time of demolition, death and fighting that these ways could not and will never produce but more demolition, death and fighting. It is time to change ways and to take once for all the good decision to reach justice and peace. Any delay of a solution, with the ongoing injustice under its different aspects, the wall, the gates, the prisons or the assassinations, will only add fuel for violence. When injustice, the cause of violence, ceases violence will stop and security will reign. We hope that we can begin a new period in which all violence will stop on both sides, Israeli and Palestinian alike.

We say it again: security for the Israelis means liberty and sovereignty for the Palestinians. These are two interdependent and inescapable realities. And the half measures, half liberty, or half sovereignty lead us to nowhere except to fall again in an interminable cycle of violence and insecurity.

The present Palestinian position asking for its rights through ways of non-violence and peace, means that peace and justice are possible. Also on the Israeli side we have seen signs and heard expressions indicating a new vision and a new decision. We know that the difficulties are numerous. Without good will every difficulty will prove an insurmountable obstacle. At the contrary, good and sincere will reduces all difficulties and finds the appropriate solution for it.

 

[Franze]

I don´t like this bishop, when he will criticise organisations like HAMAS and Islamic Yihad, when! and the taxes that christians pay and not muslims, namely, the dhirmitude, I comprehend the critics to Israel but I would like critics to muslims too.

 

[Matt25]

Franze:

I don´t like this bishop, when he will criticise organisations like HAMAS and Islamic Yihad, when! and the taxes that christians pay and not muslims, namely, the dhirmitude, I comprehend the critics to Israel but I would like critics to muslims too.

He has spoken about Hamas recently-

aqsa.org.uk/news_detail.aspx?newsid=338

Pope Benedict’s representative in the Holy Land said on Wednesday that the United States and Israel were helping strengthen Islamic Resistant group Hamas through policies towards the Palestinians…“Hamas is getting more powerful thanks to Bush’s intervention in the whole process,” Latin Patriarch for the Holy Land, Michel Sabbah, a Palestinian, told reporters at a briefing held ahead of Christmas celebrations.

Hamas poses a growing challenge to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’s divided Fatah movement. Palestinians see Hamas as less tainted by corruption than Fatah and appreciate its charity network. Hamas has also carried out scores of suicide bombings. Sabbah said that Israel’s military actions were making it harder for Abbas to establish order.

“If the policy of Abbas is to succeed, he needs to convince Hamas to stop violence,” he said. “What makes things difficult for (Abbas) is the continuation of Israeli violence.” Sabbah reiterated criticism of the barrier Israel is building in the West Bank in the name of keeping out suicide bombers. It now separates Jerusalem from Bethlehem, the town where Christians believe Jesus was born. Palestinians call the barrier a land grab.

**“Bethlehem is a big prison which is surrounded by walls. While people enter through a beautiful gate, it is still a big prison and not a normal way of living,” Sabbah said. **“They cannot have a normal economic life, which affects the social life, and people are getting more nervous.”

 

[mom_07]

Semper Fi:

I am disappointed with JPII that he appointed this man as Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem. It’s been widely documented that he has either given material support or moral support to the terrorists in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip (not sure if this was before or after the late Pope appointed him).

This is a very serious charge. What proof do you have? I have heard some very bad things said about him by extreme pro-Israel groups but have yet seen any proof. I would be interested in knowing what you know and how you confirmed it.

Thank You.

 

[b_justb]

"This is the Holy Land and it should be treated as a holy area.

Yes, completely free from homicide bombers and rocket launches into neighborhoods might be a place to start. Or we could start elsewhere as long as we get to being free from homicide bombers and rocket launches into neighborhoods. I’m not picky where we start, but let’s start.

 

[Brad]

Muslim grinches steal Bethlehem For Christmas

**“All this talk about Israel driving Christians out and causing pain is nonsense,” a Bethlehem Christian community leader told WND. “You want to know what is at play here, just come throughout the year and see the intimidation from the Muslims. They have burned down our stores, built mosques in front of our churches, stole our real estate and took away our rights. Women have been raped and abducted. So don’t tell me about Israel. It’s the Muslims.” **

 

[gilliam]

Muslim grinches steal Bethlehem For Christmas

**“All this talk about Israel driving Christians out and causing pain is nonsense,” a Bethlehem Christian community leader told WND. “You want to know what is at play here, just come throughout the year and see the intimidation from the Muslims. They have burned down our stores, built mosques in front of our churches, stole our real estate and took away our rights. Women have been raped and abducted. So don’t tell me about Israel. It’s the Muslims.” **

Yep, it is the Muslims who are forcing the Christians out. But that is the plan they have for everywhere they inhabit, especially as they become the majority. People really need to understand that. But we don’t. It’s sad.

First, it means that Islam is not only a religion. It is also a political ideology. If the government of the Muslim community simply is God’s government, then no other governments can be legitimate. They are all at war with God. As a result, Muslims have typically divided the world into two spheres, known as the Dar al-Islam—the “house of Islam” or “house of submission” to God—and the Dar al-Harb, or “house of war”—those who are at war with God.

Second, it means that Muslims have believed themselves to have a “manifest destiny.” Since God must win in the end, the Dar al-Harb must be brought under the control of Muslim government and made part of the Dar al-Islam.

Third, since the Dar al-Harb by its nature is at war with God, it is unlikely that it will submit to God without a fight. Individual groups might be convinced to lay down their arms and join the Muslim community by various forms of pressure—economic or military—that fall short of war. In history some groups have become Muslim in this way, either fearing Muslim conquest, desiring Muslim military aid against their own enemies, or aspiring to good trade relations with the Muslim world. But many peoples would rather fight than switch. This has been particularly true of Christians, who have put up more resistance to the Muslim advance than have pagan and animistic tribes.

Because of the need to expand God’s dominion by wars of conquest, Islam’s ideology imposes on Muslims the duty to fight for God’s community. This duty is known as *jihad *(Arabic, “struggle, fight”). Although it is binding on all Muslims, it has been particularly incumbent on those on the edges of the Muslim world, where there was room for expansion. Only by continual jihad could the manifest destiny of Islam to bring the world into submission to God be fulfilled.

From: Endless Jihad, The Truth about Islam and Violence

 

[Matt25]

The Catholic News agency AsiaNews carries this report asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=4754

An appeal sent to AsiaNews reads: “Christmas is drawing near and already the hearts and minds of the Christian world are turned towards Bethlehem. All relive the event with a strong desire for brotherhood and peace for themselves and for others. However, ahimé, Bethlehem’s Christians are closed in an open-air prison by an eight-meter wall, which is robbing them of land essential for their survival. The closure of the traditional route to reach the Basilica of the Nativity and the opening of a new checkpoint which forces even pilgrims to wait for hours to leave Bethlehem, is a form of modern barbarism to strangle a town economically, to impose daily insecurity on a people and to give a semblance of legality to gross religious discrimination: while Jewish believers are allowed to visit Rachel’s Tomb in peace, Christians of the Holy Land and the rest of the world meet obstacles to enter and leave Bethlehem.”

The letter makes a final appeal: “May Christian pilgrims have courage: this is the time for them to bring their solidarity to Christians in Bethlehem and the Holy Land, ensuring that each pilgrimage includes a visit to Bethlehem.”…

Emigration is popular among Christians, who depend economically on pilgrimages, and who are plagued by difficulties created by Israel for security reasons and by growing Islamic fundamentalism (which had to attempts to build a mosque in the square of the Nativity). In such a scenario, those who are able to do so, leave the city.Already in March, the then-mayor of Bethlehem, Hanna Nasser, had urged international public opinion to take a stand in favour of the town’s Christian population, pushed to emigrate above all by a lack of work opportunities created by the pilgrimage crisis. Matters have now been made worse by the new checkpoint set up by Israeli authorities between Jerusalem and Bethlehem. And only three months earlier, last December, a report of the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) and of Office of the United Nations Special Coordinator for the Middle East Peace Process – UNSCO – had said the region of Bethlehem was surrounded by “78 physical obstacles” erected by the Israeli armed forces, which isolated it from Jerusalem and the rest of Cisjordan.

The fact that Christians are faced by the twin dangers of Islamic Fundamentalism and Israeli repression is a consequence of 30 years of Israeli Occupation of Arab lands in contradiction to International Law.

 

[gilliam]

Yes, the PA wants the tourists to return to Bethlehem (they really need the $$s). I didn’t say the PA forced the Christians out, I said the Muslems did.

 

[Matt25]

gilliam:

Yes, the PA wants the tourists to return to Bethlehem (they really need the $$s). I didn’t say the PA forced the Christians out, I said the Muslems did.

When you say “the Muslims” do you mean “all the Muslims”, “many Muslims”, “some Muslims” or “a few Muslims”?

Would it be accurate to say that American Mosques attacked in the wake of the September 2001 attacks were attacked by “the Christians”?

 

[gilliam]

Matt25:

When you say “the Muslims” do you mean “all the Muslims”, “many Muslims”, “some Muslims” or “a few Muslims”?

Would it be accurate to say that American Mosques attacked in the wake of the September 2001 attacks were attacked by “the Christians”?

The Muslims who are forcing them out of Bethlehem, those Muslims. If you want to call them “fundamentalists” or Islamisists, that’s OK with me. But, basically, they are Muslims who are practicing the teachings in the Koran. If they are terrorists or not, you will have to ask the Christians who have left Bethlehem, I’m afraid.

 

[Brad]

Matt25:

The fact that Christians are faced by the twin dangers of Islamic Fundamentalism and Israeli repression is a consequence of 30 years of Israeli Occupation of Arab lands in contradiction to International Law.

And how do you explain the Islamic Fundamentalism that attacked Jews and Christians prior to 30 years ago?

Should Spain start sending missles over to the US as a result of Texas?

 

[Matt25]

Brad:

And how do you explain the Islamic Fundamentalism that attacked Jews and Christians prior to 30 years ago?

How many Muslim attacks on Christians in the Holy Land were there in 1974 then. Dates and times please?

Should Spain start sending missles over to the US as a result of Texas?

Well I wouldnt advocate it. Spain has as much right to Texas as Israel does to Bethlehem.

 

[Brad]

Matt25:

How many Muslim attacks on Christians in the Holy Land were there in 1974 then. Dates and times please?

Jews and Christians in all parts of the world over the course of centuries. You cannot refute history based on evidence that one person can provide of what happened in one spot during one year. The background of Muslim atrocities on Christians and Jews is unparallelled and ongoing. It’s ridiculous.

Matt25:

Well I wouldnt advocate it. Spain has as much right to Texas as Israel does to Bethlehem.

How can you say Spain has no right to this land? They used to.

 

[Matt25]

Brad:

Jews and Christians in all parts of the world over the course of centuries. You cannot refute history based on evidence that one person can provide of what happened in one spot during one year. The background of Muslim atrocities on Christians and Jews is unparallelled and ongoing. It’s ridiculous.
.

Nonetheless Christians and Muslims co-existed in the Holy Land for around 1300 years. It is only since the establishment of Israel and the subsequent Occupation of the West Bank that Christians have started to flood out of the region.

The Cardinal Archbishop of Westminster has no doubts where the blame lies for Bethlehems problems rcdow.org.uk/cardinal/default.asp?library_ref=&content_ref=567

…Today in the town of David a saviour has been born for you; he is Christ the Lord. Many years ago I was fortunate to offer Mass in the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, going down to the cave where Jesus was born to kiss that spot where God became one with man, binding himself to our humanity in an irrevocable covenant of love.

What has happened to that town since? How sad it is that Christians in Bethlehem feel compelled to leave the land of their birth for foreign lands, on account of the political situation in the Holy Land. How tragic that as a result of all the violence perpetrated there the little town of Christ’s birth is corralled, blocked in by a wall and checkpoints. Borders have been re-drawn: families have been separated and ancient landmarks have been lost to the town. Commerce and tourism have been decimated; unemployment has led to an exodus of citizens, most of them Christians…

St. Jerome calls Bethlehem “the most sacred spot in the world for us, indeed for the whole world”. Yet Bethlehem, the icon of all pilgrim sites, sees only one in ten of the pilgrims who five years ago came to pay homage to the Christ Child. How tragic that Christians, who for centuries have lived in harmony with their neighbours and who have stood resolutely for peace, are being forced out by present circumstances.

The people of Bethlehem are tonight celebrating the Nativity with joy. But they feel terribly alone. Recently Pope Benedict accepted, on behalf of the Catholic Church, a symbolic Bethlehem passport. He wanted to show that we are all citizens of Bethlehem, and that Bethlehem should be a free and open city. I hope that we can play our part in ensuring that it stay that way: that those of you who have not visited Bethlehem and are able to will take time this year to do so: to stay there, and to show the people of that town that they are not alone. In the meantime, please pray for Bethlehem, that their town not become a museum, that they again have hope, that the eyes and the hearts of the world be opened to what is happening there.

The Christ Child is crying for the town of his birth. With him, I want tonight to issue a plea. Violence is not the answer. Terror and repression are not the way of the Christ Child. To those with power, I want to say: seek peace with justice. The Holy Land conflict has inflicted a terrible wound on humanity. Bind that wound. Build bridges, not walls. Let Bethlehem be what it is meant to be: a free and open city. If you care about the human family, in God’s name, hear this plea. So much is at stake. As we sang tonight: O Little Town of Bethlehem the hopes and fears of all the years are met in thee tonight.

 

[Robert_Bay]

Matt, et al

Your quotes are getting long. Try to limit them to 3 paragraphs and provide a link.

Thanks

God Bless,
Robert