Better to be an "approachable" or more "Church Militant" Catholic?

[Kathryn_Ann]

I came upon an excellent new thread posted by 3DOCTORS, just as I was wondering about a few of my protestant friends (some are close friends, some Facebook friends,) and questioning which way is best, the gentle “approachable” Catholic friend or more of a “Church Militant” Catholic.

Many of my friends, both protestant and Catholic, are also Facebook friends. On my home page, I enjoy posting beautiful artworks of Our Lady, and historical essays, Church facts, Catholic Bible verses and news about Catholic charities around the world. I also, quite often, post helpful videos which explain Catholic traditions and one favorite video which names the founders of various protestant sects versus how our Church was founded by Christ, Who handed the Keys to St. Peter, etc. So far, people seem to enjoy the history of the Church and I’ve yet to find anyone who wants to argue. One dear friend converted to the Catholic Faith this past year.

Do you ever feel torn between being “approachable” and standing your ground? Or have you found a good balance? My feeling as a new convert is that I wish more Catholics had cared enough to gently inform me about the Faith. It would have saved me decades of sorrow and searching. So I do not want to rush in with a superior attitude when approaching my protestant friends, but neither do I want to act as if I didn’t care or if it doesn’t matter to me how their faith journey ends.

I do care, and it does matter! How do you communicate with your non-Catholic friends, relatives, co-workers?

Blessings,
Kathryn Ann

 

[Sandalwood]

I’ve seen way too many people flee Christian faith in general by the militant approach. I believe we are to bring people to Christ, not bully people, which seems to lead many into hating all religion.

 

[GWright]

which way is best, the gentle “approachable” Catholic friend or more of a “Church Militant” Catholic.

Hi Kathryn Ann,

This is an interesting question. For my answer, I will say that I do not think these two things are mutually exclusive. We can - and should - be both at once.

It is my belief that Catholics should always be “gentle and approachable” - in how we conduct ourselves, in how we treat others, in how we express our faith and in the standards we set for ourselves.

But when it comes to our attitudes, our values and our defence of our faith, then we should be “Church Militant”. The term “militant” immediately conjures up ideas of conflict, but the term need not represent acrimony or violence.

Rather, we can be genuinely “militant” in our unwavering faith, and in our attitudes, and by our faithfulness to the principles of Catholicism and to properly participating in our faith, especially the sacraments.

We can also be “militant” in how well we support the Church and its initiatives, (e.g. by giving time and/or money), and by making sure we are well informed as individuals - especially regarding contemporary issues, such as gay marriage - so that we can offer effective and substantiated defence of Catholic values and opinions. (Too often Catholic values are rubbished by an ignorant populous who have been convinced by bogus or erroneous arguments.)

(It sounds as though you are doing well in this regard, as you mention using videos explaining Church teaching.)

I.e in our context, to be “militant” is to be informed, effective and unwavering.

So, we can be militant - but in a gentle way!

Do you ever feel torn between being “approachable” and standing your ground?

It is natural and right to seek to avoid conflict, yes. But by always expressing our properly informed opinions, in a temperate and respectful manner, we can make our point without either having to retreat or causing a argument.

Always make sure you can effectively describe and substantiate Catholic opinion, and always try to be calm and respectful toward whom you are talking.

Often, people can be rude, towards our faith or toward ourselves as individuals, but this is a sign that they are losing the argument. If someone loses their temper, or resorts to mockery, it is because they have nothing of substance to say, or because they do not really know what they are talking about.

It is not always easy to be calm, respectful and unwavering, but if anyone can do it, we Catholics can!

I do care, and it does matter! How do you communicate with your non-Catholic friends, relatives, co-workers?

I always try to 100%:

• polite
• honest
• catholic

I would never press my faith on anyone: if I wanted someone to become interested in Catholicism because of me, I would want it to be because they were impressed by how I tried to live life, (in accordance with the Catholic faith), as opposed to because I had been endlessly badgering them about Jesus or whatever.

If anyone asks me a specific question about Catholicism, especially about potentially controversial topics such as homosexuality, I will always give an honest, uncompromising answer, expressed temperately and respectfully.

Often people do not like my answers, (lol), and become angry, but I just remain polite and stick to my guns, based on making sure I am well informed as to the logic behind whichever Catholic opinion we are discussing.

I do not want to rush in with a superior attitude when approaching my protestant friends

I sympathise - I find that difficult too! haha!

Only kidding protestant-peeps! No offence meant, just a joke!

Good luck Kathryn Ann. I agree with what you say, that it is not always easy to achieve a balance, but we can get there!

 

[Church_Militant]

I’m Church Militant, and I’m very approachable.

A better way to say this is that we are the Church Militant, but God forbid we are ever the Church Belligerent, which is more what we are talking about.

Here’s a good definition from New Advent.

It may signify the whole body of the faithful, including not merely the members of the Church who are alive on earth but those, too, whether in heaven or in purgatory, who form part of the one communion of saints. Considered thus, the Church is divided into the Church Militant, the Church Suffering, and the Church Triumphant.

Some folks really do need to get a copy of
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[CMatt25]

I’ve seen way too many people flee Christian faith in general by the militant approach. I believe we are to bring people to Christ, not bully people, which seems to lead many into hating all religion.

Or when confronted with the militant approach by Catholics at least flee further from the Catholic faith.

 

[JRKH]

I’m Church Militant, and I’m very approachable.

A better way to say this is that we are the Church Militant, but God forbid we are ever the Church Belligerent, which is more what we are talking about.

Amen - This is what I thought too.

Jesus said that it is by our Love that the world will know that we are His disciples.
So we should ALWAYS be approachable.
Paul made a statement about being “all things to all men” (1 Cor 9:19-23). He is talking here about “meeting people where they are” and drawing them toward the truth of the Gospel and for us this means the fullness of truth in the Catholic Church.
But this idea of being approachable in no way assumes being wishy-washy on matters of teachings.

So - by all means be approachable and be true to the Teachings of Holy Mother Church.

Peace
James

 

[Rence]

Well, I don’t give Church militants the time of day, no matter what religion they are, even Catholic. So I think it’s better to be “approachable” rather than militant. It’s really only useful to the Church militant to be overbearing in a situation in which they can be so…since no one really has any authority over another, it can’t be a really useful way to evangelize. Why would one want to be militant anyway? war mongering is war mongering no matter what label one is wearing…

 

[Lochias]

Or when confronted with the militant approach by Catholics at least flee further from the Catholic faith.

The same with other faiths, too. No-one likes a person who wields their faith like a club.

 

[Church_Militant]

Well, I don’t give Church militants the time of day, no matter what religion they are, even Catholic. So I think it’s better to be “approachable” rather than militant. It’s really only useful to the Church militant to be overbearing in a situation in which they can be so…since no one really has any authority over another, it can’t be a really useful way to evangelize. Why would one want to be militant anyway? war mongering is war mongering no matter what label one is wearing…

Again, we all need to understand what the term Church Militant actually means and I give a definition in my post above.

To explain again though. We are all, by definition, so long as we live on this Earth, while following our journey of faith, members of the Church Militant. If we are persecuted for the faith, or die and are in Purgatory, then we are members of the Church Suffering. Finally, when one attains Heaven then we are members of the Church Triumphant.

That is what these terms mean.

Alleging that the CM is somehow synonymous with rude or belligerent lack of charity is both inaccurate and unfair.

All of us are called to share our most holy faith, wherever God has placed us and in whatever ways that God has gifted us.

None of us are ever expected to be uncharitable in our living and specifically not in sharing our faith with others. You never see Our Lord doing that, and you never see the apostles doing that.

St. Peter very specifically teaches us about this in the 3rd chapter of his 1st epistle when he says,8 Finally, all of you, have unity of spirit, sympathy, love of the brethren, a tender heart and a humble mind.
9 Do not return evil for evil or reviling for reviling; but on the contrary bless, for to this you have been called, that you may obtain a blessing.
10 For “He that would love life
and see good days,
let him keep his tongue from evil
and his lips from speaking guile;
11 let him turn away from evil and do right;
let him seek peace and pursue it.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are upon the righteous,
and his ears are open to their prayer.
But the face of the Lord is against those that do evil.”
13 Now who is there to harm you if you are zealous for what is right?
14 But even if you do suffer for righteousness’ sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled,
15 but in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence;
16 and keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are abused, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.
17 For it is better to suffer for doing right, if that should be God’s will, than for doing wrong.

The same with other faiths, too. No-one likes a person who wields their faith like a club.

Exactly! And there are some of those folks around (both Catholic and Non) and they often can’t figure out why they have so few friends and so little success winning converts.

Here’s some very good articles that we all can benefit from.

• Winning New Converts
• HOW YOU CAN WIN CONVERTS (This Rock: March 1996)
• Friendship: The Key to the Evangelization of Men

 

[Rence]

Again, we all need to understand what the term Church Militant actually means and I give a definition in my post above.

I can’t speak for everyone, however, when I talk about religious militants, I mean them in the secular sense. Catholics who live on his earth, and who are following our journey of faith, and as you describe below have always been simply Catholics. Where did your definition of Church Militant come from? Is it on the Vatican website or something? When I hear “Church Militant”, I think of police or interrogators…or the Inquisitions…or even those who simply can’t respect another person’s choice of religion and will directly tell that person so, unsolicited and unwelcomed.
Church Militant;9504403:

Alleging that the CM is somehow synonymous with rude or belligerent lack of charity is both inaccurate and unfair.

All

of us are called to share our most holy faith, wherever God has placed us and in whatever ways that God has gifted us.

None of us are ever expected to be uncharitable in our living and specifically not in sharing our faith with others. You never see Our Lord doing that, and you never see the apostles doing that.

And I’ve never seen Our Lord referred to as a Military…or the Apostles, or lay Catholics.

 

[Pug]

When I hear “Church Militant”, I think of police or interrogators…or the Inquisitions

The term is in the context of a way to tell apart the three parts of the Church, the Church suffering, the Church triumphant, and the Church militant. It means those who are in Purgatory are part of the Church, same with those in Heaven, and the same with those on Earth still living. The “militant” ones are the members of the Church here on earth, most likely because we are still fighting the good fight to fight off Satan and sin and worldly ideas. Those in Heaven and Purgatory no longer have any danger of going to Hell, so they are done with the dangerous battle part to overcome temptation, etc. Those in Hell are not members of the Church.

You might look up the communion of saints to learn that the three parts of the Church are connected. That is the type of context where I hear those terms used.

The only official place I can think of having seen the term right now (but I have seen it over time in various types of locations, this is just what comes to my head) is the encyclical by Pope Pius XII that I quote below:
The doctrine of the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Church,[1] was first taught us by the Redeemer Himself. Illustrating as it does the great and inestimable privilege of our intimate union with so exalted a Head, this doctrine by its sublime dignity invites all those who are drawn by the Holy Spirit to study it, and gives them, in the truths of which it proposes to the mind, a strong incentive to the performance of such good works as are conformable to its teaching. For this reason, We deem it fitting to speak to you on this subject through this Encyclical Letter, developing and explaining above all, those points which concern the Church Militant. To this We are urged not only by the surpassing grandeur of the subject but also by the circumstances of the present time.

 

[Church_Militant]

It is better to align our thinking with the teachings of the Church. Granted “militant” has secular connotations, but they are not at all the same as those used by the church

Here are some things I found that will help with the terminology and one that is particularly relevant to this discussion.
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Church

The Church: Militant, Suffering, Triumphant (Catholic Answers Live MP3)

The Catholic Church is the Mystical Body of Christ

The Church Militant or the Church Belligerent?

http://www.catholic.com/sites/defau...es/magazine/articles/SHCath_wBalloon4_CEO.jpg
Every nation needs to defend itself. Yet many nations (including our own at its founding) have been wary of standing armies. The prophet Samuel, in warning Israel against a king, touched on this fear (cf. 1 Sam. 8:11-12). The same suspicion inspired the Roman law that forbade Caesar crossing the Rubicon. The danger of a standing army is simple: It can be used against its own people. Generals can use it against the government and the government can use it against the citizens. Thus, a tension: A nation at once both needs and fears an army. The Church, like a nation, must defend herself and her faith. She must fight for the truth and for the salvation of souls. This demands doing battle, for which reason we call ourselves the Church Militant. Like a nation, however, the Church also encounters a danger: that the fighting spirit of the Church Militant turn against her. The danger is not of fighting—but of only fighting, and fighting in the wrong way. The danger is that the Church become not the New Jerusalem, but the New Sparta. And Sparta was known for only one thing: fighting. Ruthlessly, effectively, heroically at times, but only fighting. Sparta produced no great artwork, poetry, plays, or philosophy. It produced only war.
In short, the risk is to cease being the Church Militant and to become instead the “Church Belligerent.” This term describes not so much a specific group of people as a certain attitude, mindset, or approach. It indicates the necessary fighting spirit of the Church Militant severed from the principle of charity. And it constitutes a hazard—not for those who think that the past forty years have been a catechetical and liturgical success, not for those who see no need to evangelize, not for those waiting for the Church to be updated. Rather, it poses a threat precisely to those—to us—who take the demands of the Church Militant seriously, who see the crisis in society and within the Church, who recognize the catechetical and liturgical fallout of almost four decades, and who desire to enter into the battle for souls.

See link to article for more…

 

[Rence]

The term is in the context of a way to tell apart the three parts of the Church, the Church suffering, the Church triumphant, and the Church militant. It means those who are in Purgatory are part of the Church, same with those in Heaven, and the same with those on Earth still living. The “militant” ones are the members of the Church here on earth, most likely because we are still fighting the good fight to fight off Satan and sin and worldly ideas. Those in Heaven and Purgatory no longer have any danger of going to Hell, so they are done with the dangerous battle part to overcome temptation, etc. Those in Hell are not members of the Church.

You might look up the communion of saints to learn that the three parts of the Church are connected. That is the type of context where I hear those terms used.

The only official place I can think of having seen the term right now (but I have seen it over time in various types of locations, this is just what comes to my head) is the encyclical by Pope Pius XII that I quote below:
The doctrine of the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Church,[1] was first taught us by the Redeemer Himself. Illustrating as it does the great and inestimable privilege of our intimate union with so exalted a Head, this doctrine by its sublime dignity invites all those who are drawn by the Holy Spirit to study it, and gives them, in the truths of which it proposes to the mind, a strong incentive to the performance of such good works as are conformable to its teaching. For this reason, We deem it fitting to speak to you on this subject through this Encyclical Letter, developing and explaining above all, those points which concern the Church Militant. To this We are urged not only by the surpassing grandeur of the subject but also by the circumstances of the present time.

It’s no where in the Catechism? It makes me wonder why it’s not in the Catechism, since a sure norm for Catholic teaching. And the above is the only official place you remember seeing it? Anyway, thanks for the explanation

 

[Rence]

It is better to align our thinking with the teachings of the Church. Granted “militant” has secular connotations, but they are not at all the same as those used by the church

I was trying to answer the OP, who obviously couldn’t have meant ‘Church Militant’ as you do. It’s easier to have a discussion when everyone is on the same page

As for teachings of the Church, I did a search on Church Militant in the Catechism and didn’t find it. The previous poster gave that quote from an encyclical, which addresses the Church Militant, but doesn’t give any other information than that. But thank you for the definitions. I learned something new today

 

[Pug]

It’s no where in the Catechism? It makes me wonder why it’s not in the Catechism, since a sure norm for Catholic teaching. And the above is the only official place you remember seeing it? Anyway, thanks for the explanation

Here it is being used by our current pope in one of his audiences as he speaks about St. Joan.
In Jesus Joan contemplated the whole reality of the Church, the “Church triumphant” of Heaven, as well as the “Church militant” on earth. According to her words, “About Jesus Christ and the Church, I simply know they’re just one thing” (ibid., p. 166). This affirmation, cited in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (n. 795), has a truly heroic character in the context of the Trial of Condemnation, before her judges, men of the Church who were persecuting and condemning her. In the Love of Jesus Joan found the strength to love the Church to the very end, even at the moment she was sentenced.
Do you know how to search a particular site on Google? To get the quote above I typed into the google bar

site:vatican.va “church militant”

It will pick out more than one hit on the vatican site.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

We are the Church Militant because we are battling here on earth against evil and all that is not of God. It doesn’t mean we should be militant towards others in our evangelising. Being approachable, yet being part of the Church Militant is not mutually exclusive. Perhaps this is a case of misunderstanding of what the term means.

 

[JRKH]

It’s no where in the Catechism? It makes me wonder why it’s not in the Catechism, since a sure norm for Catholic teaching. And the above is the only official place you remember seeing it? Anyway, thanks for the explanation

WOW - I just checked and you are right. Weird…

Like you I am surprised they are not there

Peace
James

 

[mangy_dog]

A healthy mixture of both.

You must first have a life of prayer and a life of the spirit, nurtured by the Sacraments-especially the Sacrament of Confession.

In doing this, the Holy Spirit will guide you as to what measure of one and the other you should have and use-according to the situation and circumstances.

 

[Kathryn_Ann]

OP :heavenKathryn Ann) just stopping by to say these are all great answers! Thank you!:angel1::heaven::harp::grouphug:

 

[Rence]

WOW - I just checked and you are right. Weird…

Like you I am surprised they are not there

I’m not surprised. I’m betting these are antiquated terms and are no longer used as much. I think they were probably used more during the times of the Inquisitions. “Militants” does not have a very positive connotation when referring to religious groups, so I’m not surprised this term isn’t used more.