Better to exist unhappily than not exist at all?

[Qoeleth]

Sorry for not addressing the point about saints and angels. Surely these things are metaphors, images. As Pseudo-Dionysius and others have said, such metaphors and images must not be mistaken for ‘reality’.

 

[Katholish]

Qoeleth,

Between this topic, and another topic you are participating in on the Incarnation, you have essentially denied every single article of Faith found in the creed. You don’t believe God “exists”. I suspect you don’t really hold that God created the world. You don’t believe in the Incarnation or the Trinity. You don’t accept the Magisterium of the Church, you deny the communion of the saints. You deny the inspiration of the Scriptures, the Resurrection, etc. etc…

Calling yourself Catholic is a disservice to the truth. What is the point? Why do it? I ask this honestly because I have found this conversation somewhat frustrating. You seem to have a strange combination of Buddhism and the Modernist meta-heresy of the late 19th and early 20th Centuries.

 

[timotheos]

Everyone loves existence and everyone is happy. It’s just that some people aren’t happy unless they’re miserable.

 

[PeterGStanley]

Sometimes unhappiness draws a person closer to God - almost all the saints lived lives of self denial - it can and does draw you closer to God if your faithful - I remember reading of certain saints who were told in self revelation that they would be unhappy their whole lives until entering heaven.Some of us need to be kept humble to find our salvation.Saint Paul talks about a thorn in his side and said that its the prize at the end that really matters not this life. If you happy be thankful if your unhappy offer your suffering to Christ.

 

[sw85]

Love wants the best for its beloved. God knows all and knows some will rebel. So a God that creates souls knowing that some will rebel must think it is better for rebellious souls to exist than for them not to have ever existed.

Why is it better for Satan to exist and be unhappy than to not exist at all (other than showing the glory of God through demonstrating the perfection of God’s justice)? It seems good for God for Satan to demonstrate the perfection of God’s justice. But how is it good for Satan to exist for this reason?

What is so great about existence?

Being IS goodness, for one thing. So even suffering and happiness are subordinate goods. Hence why suicide is universally condemnable.

 

[Qoeleth]

Everyone loves existence and everyone is happy. It’s just that some people aren’t happy unless they’re miserable.

St Thomas More: “Now, because this world is, as I tell you, not our eternal
dwelling, but our little-while wandering, God would that we should
use it as folk who were weary of it. And he would that we should in
this vale of labour, toil, tears, and misery not look for rest and
ease, game, pleasure, wealth, and felicity.”

 

[David_Castlen]

Love wants the best for its beloved. God knows all and knows some will rebel. So a God that creates souls knowing that some will rebel must think it is better for rebellious souls to exist than for them not to have ever existed.

Why is it better for Satan to exist and be unhappy than to not exist at all (other than showing the glory of God through demonstrating the perfection of God’s justice)? It seems good for God for Satan to demonstrate the perfection of God’s justice. But how is it good for Satan to exist for this reason?

What is so great about existence?

nbnbnb

 

[slywakka250]

Just how unhappy do you mean?,

 

[Almagore]

What?! I have never heard a more anti-Christian statement in my life. God is Existence Itself (de fide teaching of the Church). Our existence is a free gift from God (de fide). Heaven is in fact the perception of the Beatific Vision, where we can behold God in His Essence, and as such is man’s perfection and highest form of existence.

Don’t try to proof-text Ecclesiastes. There is a lot of poetic license.

I agree 100%. Also, there is a difference between happiness and Joy. St. Paul in 1st Thessalonians 5:16-18, “Be joyful always, pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God’s Will for you in Christ Jesus.” There is another scripture that says something similar, “All things work for good for those who love God.”

I have experienced the Beatific Vision and confirm what you say from my personal experience. God bless you in all things. I thank God that you know the truth and have the courage to speak the truth.

 

[David_Castlen]

I agree 100%. Also, there is a difference between happiness and Joy. St. Paul in 1st Thessalonians 5:16-18, “Be joyful always, pray continually, give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God’s Will for you in Christ Jesus.” There is another scripture that says something similar, “All things work for good for those who love God.”

I have experienced the Beatific Vision and confirm what you say from my personal experience. God bless you in all things. I thank God that you know the truth and have the courage to speak the truth.

I have been reading this thread and have been wanting to make the point about having joy and becoming happy. I know of no one who best does it than Peter Kreeft. Happy comes from the old English Hap meaning lucky; where joy (Kreeft) argues is to be had: do the will of God. In his discussion it finnishes with, “Try it you’ll like it” I did, It does. I have a wife that has alzheimers and I can say I am not happy; but I have never experienced the joy I possess. I go too much. I think you can do a better job. It is important that you do. Let others know there is TRULY joy in dong God’s will. Will you continue?