Beware of armchair theology

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Thomas_Casey

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Please be sensitive to the fact that there are newcomers to Catholicism, non-Catholics and young Catholics reading this forum. The name of the forum can be misleading. People often assume that it’s for Traditionalists and their concerns. Others assume that if it’s posted on TC Forum is must be part of Catholicism. After all, it’s “tradition”.

In both cases, the assumption is incorrect and leads readers down the wrong path.

To help these folks and avoid confusion, I strongly recommend that we refrain from armchair theology. Unless one is a legitimate theologian (with a degree and authorized by the Church to teach CATHOLIC theology), one should not present his or her arguments as truths, reliable facts or rules that others must follow.

Present your points as your personal opinion, that of someone with whom you agree or something that the Church teaches. There are many good opinions out there, some old and some new. But unless the Church teaches them formally, they remain opinions. There are many good theologians, but unless we state exactly what the theologian said, in what context, to what audience and for what reason, the meaning that we give his or her statement can be incorrect.

“N said . . . . and I agree with it, because.” Is a better way of presenting a piece of theology.

If you can give a reference fine. If you can’t, at least your reader knows that this is N’s opinion that you share, but you’re not a theologian, which can influence your understanding of what N said.

Remember, theologians and lawyers often speak their own language and don’t always mean what we understand them to mean. In a certain sense, this is true of any academic discipline. Many disciplines use language differently.

Thank you 🙂
 
Thank you for this clarification. I had arrived at the same conclusion the hard way and now avoid any theology sections…Beware of ANY theology is my way …
 
As a young and learning Catholic, I thank you for this notice. I like this site, but, it can be depressing sometimes. I appreciate any attempt to set things straight.
 
Yes, it must be difficult for newcomers. It would be helpful if personal opinions were appropriately identified.
 
I’ve always wondered why this forum is called Tradtional Catholicism. A lot of Novus Ordo goers have said plenty of uncharitable things in regards to the Extraordinary Form. It is almost as if the Novus Ordo has become the standard in Tradition. Meanwhile there is an Eastern Catholicism sub forum that should actually be considered “traditional Catholicism” in contrast.
 
Devekut said:
I’ve always wondered why this forum is called Tradtional Catholicism. A lot of Novus Ordo goers have said plenty of uncharitable things in regards to the Extraordinary Form. It is almost as if the Novus Ordo has become the standard in Tradition. Meanwhile there is an Eastern Catholicism sub forum that should actually be considered “traditional Catholicism” in contrast.
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Please read Mr. Casey’s post again. He said it is not a forum for just Traditional Catholics. It is also not a forum to complain about how others are uncharitable or anything with fostering a debate between Catholics. It is a forum to discuss the traditions of the Catholic Church. There are stickies above that are meant for us to read and abide by. Everyone should read and abide by what is posted in them.

The Eastern Catholic forum is for discussing things about the Eastern Catholic Churches. Period. It is not a forum for" Traditional" Latin Rite Catholic to discuss their position. It is a very educational forum and one can learn a lot about the Eastern Catholic Churches liturgies, customs, and history, as well as some of their traditions and theology, and what is currently occurring in Eastern Catholicism.

Any complaints about uncharitable behavior should be taken to the moderators.
 
Yeah…still doesn’t make sense. Just call the forum Catholicism, as the current name suggests there are both Traditional and Modern forms of Catholicism.
 
Devekut said:
Yeah…still doesn’t make sense. Just call the forum Catholicism, as the current name suggests there are both Traditional and Modern forms of Catholicism.
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Well, it is what it is unless the administration decides to change it. 🙂

One problem is that people don’t read the stickies at the top of the pages, they just post whatever they want, and then get offended when the mods delete the post or close the thread.
 
They definitely should change it, as Traditional Catholicism includes all ancient rites. So, I don’t understand why there would be a traditional forum and an Eastern Catholic forum. Perhaps they can call this sub forum “Roman Catholicism”, which would include EF and NO, and would possibly end the “arm chair” confusion.
 
Devekut said:
They definitely should change it, as Traditional Catholicism includes all ancient rites. So, I don’t understand why there would be a traditional forum and an Eastern Catholic forum. Perhaps they can call this sub forum “Roman Catholicism”, which would include EF and NO, and would possibly end the “arm chair” confusion.
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The “tradition” of the Church is a living tradition and has undergone numerous reforms in past centuries.

As an example, I attend an Ordinary Form Mass at a Benedictine monastery every Sunday, that is entirely chanted. The Propers are chanted in Latin according the Graduale Romanum; the Ordinary is too (with the Greek Kyrie). The rest is in French plainchant. Incense, the pipe organ, bells, all used at appropriate moments.

How is that not part of the “tradition” of the Church? The monastery is faithful to this tradition, incorporating very ancient elements into a modern, living liturgy. I also pray the Liturgy of the Hours according to the 1970 reforms, but in Latin and in Gregorian chant with the traditional antiphons and on the traditional Gregorian psalm tones. How is that not part of the living “tradition” of the Church?

The owners of this forum have chosen take the wider meaning of the word “tradition” to include things such as the above, and not limit “tradition” to exclusively mean the 1962 Missal and 1960 Breviary (which isn’t even that “traditional” in the sense that the 1960 Breviary is based on the 1910 reforms which undid about 350 years of the Breviary of Trent).

In short, “tradition” can include both the Ordinary and Extraordinary forms of the Mass and Divine Office, as both can draw from the ancient patrimony of the Church to enrich the liturgy.
 
"Wider meaning of the word “traditional” which excludes the even older traditions of the Eastern Catholic Churches? Wonderful!
 
Devekut said:
"Wider meaning of the word “traditional” which excludes the even older traditions of the Eastern Catholic Churches? Wonderful!
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There is a section entirely devoted to the Eastern Churches.

The owners here, as I see it, have the prerogative to set up the forum exactly as they see fit.
 
The moderator’s OP really has nothing to do with EF vs OF vs Eastern Catholicism.

It has to do with presenting opinion as doctrine of the Church, something I have done on CAF often.

-Tim-
 
The OP has to do with “this is not a traditionalist forum” yet it is not really a traditional forum in general. However, with the explanations as to WHY it is labelled traditional, as it is for all information in regards to Catholicism, it makes it seem as though, as I previously said, there are two forms of Catholicism; traditional and non traditional.

This forum should be called Roman Catholicism, as to not confuse new comers or those who were poorly catechized.
 
I’ve cleaned up this thread. Please stay on topic, if you wish to post. The topic is not what the forum should be called.

The topic of the thread is “armchair” theology.

Armchair theology is when one posts an opinion, one’s own or that of someone else, as if it were a formal teaching of the Church.

Armchair theology is when one quotes a theologian out of context, without considering his target audience, the entire work from which the quote comes, translations, or the fact that theology, like other disciplines, has a language of its own and theologians have “culture” of their own. Not everyone uses words the same way. We must be careful to clarify for the benefit of those who are not as well read as we are.

You may discuss anything that is part of Catholic history and/or tradition. But please make sure that your readers understand when something is an opinion and a formal teaching or discipline of the Church.

Thank You

Thomas Casey
Moderator
 
I hope I may ask you some questions regarding this. As I’m slightly concerned.
Thomas_Casey said:
Armchair theology is when one quotes a theologian out of context, without considering his target audience, the entire work from which the quote comes, translations, or the fact that theology, like other disciplines, has a language of its own and theologians have “culture” of their own. Not everyone uses words the same way. We must be careful to clarify for the benefit of those who are not as well read as we are.
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While I agree that a lot of bad armchair apologetics does float around on the Catholic Answers Forum, as on any Catholic forum, what would have to be done, in your opinion as a moderator, to adequately satisfy your demand in a forum post?

If someone does fail to satisfy it, will it have consequences in the form of mod editing or deletion without warning?

And I’m a little concerned, why have you decided to post this here, in this sub-forum? There’s plenty of fairly bad armchair theology in the other forums as well. Should I as a Catholic who love the 1962 Missal be concerned?

Or say if I comment on the following topics: The bad teachings of Cardinal Kasper? That Catholics can’t hold to universalism? That the Jewish people don’t have a second path to salvation, but, like everyone else, can only come to salvation through Christ (and with the same requirements) and that the State of Israel is not in anyway Israel proper?

Would this be allowed, if and only if, I preface (and/or end) all my posts with a “This is according to my own private opinion” disclaimer? Despite citations to relevant sources, despite having done a reasonable effort to establish that this is the teaching of the Catholic Church?

And will you expect this of posters in the traditionalist forum only, or also of everyone universally on Catholic Answers?

With respect, Leonhard.
 
Leonhard said:
Despite citations to relevant sources, despite having done a reasonable effort to establish that this is the teaching of the Catholic Church?
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I think having a little humility about how we present our interpretations can go a long way. With all due respect to many in “Traditionalist” circles, many of the things they present as being “Church Teaching” are in fact the private opinions of, yes, armchair theologians. (Not to get in to all of this, but there’s a relatively well-known Catholic apostolate that focuses on science and that makes all sort of interesting claims about what Sacred Tradition does or does not demand of Catholics. Last I checked, they were not the Magisterium.)

Of course, I do find all of this kind of ironic, since I’m not sure how many of the well-known Catholic Answers apologists actually have professional theology degrees. But for the purposes of this forum, I’m certainly in agreement that we should all make known that our opinions are amateur opinions and may not necessarily be remotely accurate. Frankly, doing anything else seems rather prideful.
 
InNomineDomini said:
I think having a little humility about how we present our interpretations can go a long way. With all due respect to many in “Traditionalist” circles, many of the things they present as being “Church Teaching” are in fact the private opinions of, yes, armchair theologians.

Of course, I do find all of this kind of ironic, since I’m not sure how many of the well-known Catholic Answers apologists actually have professional theology degrees. But for the purposes of this forum, I’m certainly in agreement that we should all make known that our opinions are amateur opinions and may not necessarily be remotely accurate. Frankly, doing anything else seems rather prideful.
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I think this is a fair view, I wish it was presented as such to us. That leaves my concern that this is an attack particularly on the traditionalist sub-forum.

Why isn’t posted as a sticker thread, in all the large discussion forums?
 
Leonhard said:
Why isn’t posted as a sticker thread, in all the large discussion forums?
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I don’t know, but does it really matter?

Leonhard, internet discussions of Traditionalist concerns can be an absolute mess. If the moderators here feel a special need to crack down on certain things, then good for them. I’d personally absolutely prefer this sub-forum not devolve into much of the nonsense that the Traditionalist movement is capable of producing, including the paranoia that it can cause in many with regard to the modern Magisterium.

Let’s agree to assume the best, and not to think a Catholic sub-culture is being unfairly targeted for no good reason.
 
…Did it really just hit you as an epiphany that posters in internet forums are not master theologians teaching at top-tier colleges?

Don’t assume that someone’s wrong, but don’t assume that someone’s right, either. This is the internet, after all.
 
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