Beware of armchair theology

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Leonhard, internet discussions of Traditionalist concerns can be an absolute mess.
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The Apologetics subforum threads can’t be like this? I’ve seen threads encourage universalism, with references to certain popular apologists (not on Catholic Answers) who’ve written along those lines. Ordination of women. Homosexual weddings, and yes even by “Catholics” Wouldn’t you say that these things are an absolute mess as well?
I’d personally absolutely prefer this sub-forum not devolve into much of the nonsense that the Traditionalist movement is capable of producing, including the paranoia that it can cause in many with regard to the recent Magisterium.
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See you’re free to attack traditionalists general behaviour, but I’m not sure if I’m allowed to criticize some things that go on in this forum.

I agree though, that there is a distinction to be made between a traditionalist and a toxic-traditionalist. The owner of the Fisheaters forum made that distinction brilliantly. If you go to this link and scroll down you’ll see the definition.
Let’s agree to assume the best, and not to think a Catholic sub-culture is being unfairly targeted for no good reason.
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Of course I assume the best intentions, a well-run forum, of good Catholics enjoying civil discussions, with respect towards those in authority. However, it seems Catholic Answers has a very narrow understanding of what this is.

Too narrow for my comfort. There are many opinions I can’t talk about.

I just don’t think this is a healthy place anymore. Not for real discussion.
 
Leonhard said:
I just don’t think this is a healthy place anymore. Not for real discussion.
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I’m sorry that you feel that way, and that something has obviously upset you. But maybe it’s time to forgive and forget and move on to other topics. 🙂
 
InNomineDomini said:
I’m sorry that you feel that way, and that something has obviously upset you. But maybe it’s time to forgive and forget and move on to other topics. 🙂
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I opened a thread, regarding what felt was excessive moderation.

It got shut down. No explanation, no statement, nothing. It had a bit active, and people were posting in it.

I shouldn’t about this, coupled with that ominous moderator warning here in the traditionalist sub-forum?
 
Leonhard said:
I shouldn’t about this, coupled with that ominous moderator warning here in the traditionalist sub-forum?
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You really, really, REALLY should move on, and this is in no way spiritually beneficial to you.
 
Thomas Casey is the moderator of this particular subforum. That’s why it is posted here. I wouldn’t interpret it as CAF throwing down the gauntlet against traditional Catholics. 😉

You’re right, though, it is a good thing to keep in mind for all of the subforums.
 
InNomineDomini said:
You really, really, REALLY should move on, and this is in no way spiritually beneficial to you.
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See that’s part of the problem, as soon as you start mentioning these problems, and your concerns about them, people seemingly rush in to question your spirituality and seemingly your devotion.

There’s nothing here for me to let go off.

I am well, but I find these problems suffocating my desire to post on this forum. I want to talk about these problems openly, and public, and with you. And to be free of anxiety of having mods especially watch me, because I identify as a traditionalist. This shouldn’t be something too much to ask for.
 
Leonhard said:
I opened a thread, regarding what felt was excessive moderation.

It got shut down. No explanation, no statement, nothing. It had a bit active, and people were posting in it.

I shouldn’t about this, coupled with that ominous moderator warning here in the traditionalist sub-forum?
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I’m a traditionalist too, and sometimes my posts are removed, but that’s okay. Sometimes I go overboard, and don’t realize it. We can be a force for good here on CAF, but it’s important to work within the guidelines given us, even if we can’t always see the merit of them.

I hope that you stay here on CAF.
 
Denise1957 said:
I’m a traditionalist too, and sometimes my posts are removed, but that’s okay. Sometimes I go overboard, and don’t realize it. We can be a force for good here on CAF, but it’s important to work within the guidelines given us, even if we can’t always see the merit of them.

I hope that you stay here on CAF.
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I might not, I have a feeling the moderators are going to make a small mini online martyr out me for questioning their moderation decisions.
 
Leonhard said:
I might not, I have a feeling the moderators are going to make a small mini online martyr out me for questioning their moderation decisions.
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Have you tried sending a PM to the moderators to discuss the issue?
 
InNomineDomini said:
I think having a little humility about how we present our interpretations can go a long way. With all due respect to many in “Traditionalist” circles, many of the things they present as being “Church Teaching” are in fact the private opinions of, yes, armchair theologians.
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Sometimes it’s the opinion of professional theologists too. The thing is, even a professional theologist’s opinion does not make it “church teaching”. It remains an opinion until promulgated by the Magisterium.

The role of a theologist in the Church is often poorly understood. It is to explore, research, try to understand and feed the Magisterium with learned, scholarly opinion. The Magisterium and Holy Father may in fact be presented with equally learned, but opposing theological opinions, in fact debate is usually welcome. It’s up to them to sort through it and discern the Truth. Theologians don’t sit on the chair of Saint Peter, the Holy Father does.
 
OraLabora said:
Sometimes it’s the opinion of professional theologists too. The thing is, even a professional theologist’s opinion does not make it “church teaching”. It remains an opinion until promulgated by the Magisterium.

The role of a theologist in the Church is often poorly understood. It is to explore, research, try to understand and feed the Magisterium with learned, scholarly opinion. The Magisterium and Holy Father may in fact be presented with equally learned, but opposing theological opinions, in fact debate is usually welcome. It’s up to them to sort through it and discern the Truth. Theologians don’t sit on the chair of Saint Peter, the Holy Father does.
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This is what Brother JR explained many times. The theologian proposes ideas. The Church bathes those ideas in prayer, and with the help of the Holy Spirit, understands truth better.

-Tim-
 
OraLabora said:
The thing is, even a professional theologist’s opinion does not make it “church teaching”. It remains an opinion until promulgated by the Magisterium.
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A very useful distinction, Michel: touché.
 
Honestly, the existence of this thread is very condescending and promotes the elitism of the ivory tower dinosaurs.
 
Devekut said:
Honestly, the existence of this thread is very condescending and promotes the elitism of the ivory tower dinosaurs.
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I think the point is to remind us to be careful how we articulate things. Some of us can tend to say things so confidently and with no qualification that it would leave the casual CAF observer to think that the poster’s opinion is infallible Catholic doctrine.
 
Devekut said:
Honestly, the existence of this thread is very condescending and promotes the elitism of the ivory tower dinosaurs.
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Men like Bernardo Olivera, Alan C Mitchell and others like them are hardly ivory tower dinosaurs.

They are bonafide theologians who have dedicated their life to studying the mysteries of our faith. They are some of the most respected minds in theology today and consultants to Popes.

99.999% of the people on CAF wouldn’t last five minutes in conversation with them.

-Tim-
 
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