Beware of the scribes

[osddso]

i read many times in the Gospel: “Beware of the Scribes”

i always took it in a sense like “Beware of the scribes, the think they have the power to interpert the word of God.” therefore those (namely Protestants) who believe they have the power to change the meaning to tailor their specific needs are ones who will lead you astray.

seems like i was off a bit, because i was reading some stuff and what i read claims that the scribes are those who make laws. and those who make the laws sometimes think they are all mighty and powerful and love to be admired and treated like a God.

what is the Churches stance on that particular verse?

 

[NotWorthy]

I thought the Pharisees has the authority to Bind and Loose (make and unmake Jewish Laws). The Scribes were in charge of maintaining the Sacred Scriptures and the Targums and Mishnah (Jewish commentary and Phariseeic Laws).

 

[osddso]

 

[osddso]

 

[NotWorthy]

Wow! Two thumbs up!

 

[Julian0404]

i read many times in the Gospel: “Beware of the Scribes”

i always took it in a sense like “Beware of the scribes, the think they have the power to interpert the word of God.” therefore those (namely Protestants) who believe they have the power to change the meaning to tailor their specific needs are ones who will lead you astray.

seems like i was off a bit, because i was reading some stuff and what i read claims that the scribes are those who make laws. and those who make the laws sometimes think they are all mighty and powerful and love to be admired and treated like a God.

what is the Churches stance on that particular verse?

I believe Jesus used that warning as an admonition against hypocrosy. To be cautious of people who say “do this or do that”, but they themselves do not do likewise.

 

[patrick457]

NotWorthy, add this one too:

Now for my take on this:
The Scribes and the Pharisees in Jesus’ time had their own interpretation on what the Scriptures (or at least, what they think of as ‘Scripture’) are. This is not a unique thing however; Judaism in Jesus’ time is not as unified as it is now. There are various groups (of which the Pharisaic sect is but one), each with their own interpretation of what Judaism is and each having their own unique traditions and laws, to the point that these were dubbed as ‘Judaisms’.

Note, however, that ‘Scribe’ is not the name of a separate party: scribes are just that, job descriptions. We commonly find the scribes lumped together with the Pharisees because many Pharisees were scribes - but not all scribes belong to the Pharisaic sect.

Contrary to the popular image of old folks in long dark robes who never associated with anyone who is not one of them, recent studies and reevaluation show that the Pharisees actually enjoyed considerable popularity among the populace. IMHO, this might be due to their eligitarianism (most Pharisees were probably from the working middle class and would thus be familiar and could symphatize with the daily toil of the average joe) and their ‘emphasizing-the-Jewish-layman’ approach - most of them were laymen themselves, after all. By contrast, the people loathed the Sadducees, which consisted of the priests who run the Temple in Jerusalem (the Sadducees were thus more-Temple oriented) and the wealthy Judean upper-classes, due to their abuse of authority and wealth and their open collaboration with the enemy (Rome) to keep the status quo. Thus in many matters, the people would have turned more to the Pharisees and the scribes.

Now, the Pharisees and the Scribes were ‘keepers of the Law’ in a literal sense. In an age where literacy was not as widespread and copies of the Torah were hard to come by especially if you do not have the money to get one, the scribes - who have read and studied the Law very thoroughly and precisely and put hedges over it - served as walking Torahs. One would have to rely on the scribes and the Pharisees to report the words of the Torah, especially if one is illiterate. What they did to it might be suspect, but not their knowledge of it: one could be assured that they would report the Law itself with care and accuracy.

What Jesus warns the people, however, is that there are those in the Pharisaic sect who do not observe the laws and precepts that they are teaching others. “They say and do not do.” This play-acting, this hypocrisy, is what Jesus is attacking and warning others to stay away from.

 

[NotWorthy]

Contrary to the popular image of old folks in long dark robes who never associated with anyone who is not one of them, recent studies and reevaluation show that the Pharisees actually enjoyed considerable popularity among the populace. IMHO, this might be due to their eligitarianism (most Pharisees were probably from the working middle class and would thus be familiar and could symphatize with the daily toil of the average joe) and their ‘emphasizing-the-Jewish-layman’ approach - most of them were laymen themselves, after all. By contrast, the people loathed the Sadducees, which consisted of the priests who run the Temple in Jerusalem (the Sadducees were thus more-Temple oriented) and the wealthy Judean upper-classes, due to their abuse of authority and wealth and their open collaboration with the enemy (Rome) to keep the status quo. Thus in many matters, the people would have turned more to the Pharisees and the scribes.

Now, the Pharisees and the Scribes were ‘keepers of the Law’ in a literal sense. In an age where literacy was not as widespread and copies of the Torah were hard to come by especially if you do not have the money to get one, the scribes - who have read and studied the Law very thoroughly and precisely and put hedges over it - served as walking Torahs. One would have to rely on the scribes and the Pharisees to report the words of the Torah, especially if one is illiterate. What they did to it might be suspect, but not their knowledge of it: one could be assured that they would report the Law itself with care and accuracy.

The Sadducees were unpopular with the common Jew also because they were so willing to work with their Roman conquerors, while the Pharisees wanted to rid Judea of everything Gentile, especially the Romans. (Edited… Ah, I see that you included this reason also, Patrick, but I understand this is the main reason for Sadduceic dislike, rather than, "…and also…").

In working with the Romans, the Sadducees had to refrain from many of their Jewish ways, which only further alienated them from the stricter Pharisees.

My question, Patrick, would be, wouldn’t the Scribes have to be somewhat wealthy to be able to afford a good education and to have copies of the Torah, or would these copies be “state property”?

 

[AmbroseSJ]

patrick457:

The Scribes and the Pharisees in Jesus’ time had their own interpretation on what the Scriptures (or at least, what they think of as ‘Scripture’) are. This is not a unique thing however; Judaism in Jesus’ time is not as unified as it is now.

You think Judaism is MORE unified NOW! I would have said just the opposite. Now you have Jews from the Ultra Orthodox, to the most liberal reformed Jews who do not even believe in God. At least in former times Jews (not Samaritans) were united by the Temple in Jerusalem, even if their theologies varied.

 

[patrick457]

The Sadducees were unpopular with the common Jew also because they were so willing to work with their Roman conquerors, while the Pharisees wanted to rid Judea of everything Gentile, especially the Romans. (Edited… Ah, I see that you included this reason also, Patrick, but I understand this is the main reason for Sadduceic dislike, rather than, "…and also…").

In working with the Romans, the Sadducees had to refrain from many of their Jewish ways, which only further alienated them from the stricter Pharisees.

Correct! There was an adage that the Sadducees were politically liberal but religiously conservative, while the Pharisees were religiously liberal while being politically conservative.

My question, Patrick, would be, wouldn’t the Scribes have to be somewhat wealthy to be able to afford a good education and to have copies of the Torah, or would these copies be “state property”?

For one thing, it is the Scribes’ job to make the copies! That’s why they’re named as such: part of their job description is to write stuff, ranging from Scriptures to formal contracts. They earned their money by working in clerical tasks, be it in offices or on the street*. And, IMHO, a professional expert on the Law would not even need a written copy; he could probably just recite it from memory after years and years of copying, expounding and studying it.

*If anything, the Jews valued working with one’s own hands. There was a rabbinic saying that goes, “Whoever does not teach his son a trade makes him a thief.”
In fact, a number of well-known rabbis and Pharisees held ‘side jobs’ to support themselves: for example, Hillel the Elder was a woodcutter, Shammai was a carpenter, and St. Paul was a tentmaker!

At Jesus’ time, the central place for education was both the home (where the father is responsible to teach his son/s) and the local synagogue (usually Pharisee-run), where children could freely attend - the idea of compulsory education not yet existing then.

The Torah is literally the core of the rather narrow, but precise Jewish curriculum, as every branch of Jewish knowledge at the time merged with theology. Since early childhood (around five or six years) boys were taught portions of the Scriptures (say, the Torah or the Psalms) and perhaps some proverbs and laws, as well as basic reading and writing. Some of the more brighter minds could be sent as pupils under great scholars to learn the Law and the traditions in a more in-depth manner.

 

[patrick457]

You think Judaism is MORE unified NOW! I would have said just the opposite. Now you have Jews from the Ultra Orthodox, to the most liberal reformed Jews who do not even believe in God.

You bring up a good point there. The whole division can trace its roots, I believe, in the 19th century, when elements within German Jewry sought to reform Jewish belief and practice in response to the Enlightenment and the Jewish Emancipation. There were varying reactions to this, bringing forth the various Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform groups we know today.

At least in former times Jews (not Samaritans) were united by the Temple in Jerusalem, even if their theologies varied.

Actually, it was precisely because of the Temple in Jerusalem’s importance for the Jews that various disputes raged between the ‘Judaisms’ of the time, a number of which centered on the nature of the Temple’s importance itself.