Bf and I want to get married but cant have kids for a while!

[PatriceA]

I just need to interject here, there is no time limit on how long one can use NFP to avoid (ie, periodic abstinance). As long as there is a valid reason to avoid then it doesn’t matter how long one ends up using NFP, it is still perfectly licit and moral.

I don’t think my post came across exactly how I meant it. I think there is a difference between having a valid reason once you are married to avoid having a child (which you can’t always put an expiration date on) and planning and preparing to have a valid reason (pursuing a career/education) to avoid having a child before you have even taken your vows. You stand at the altar and vow to be open to life from that moment on, but you’re already planning on using NFP for up to 6 years to avoid having a baby? I personally think it sounds a bit too much like using NFP to plan your ideal time frame and leaving God out of the marriage and His will for your family size.

 

[thewanderer]

Basically, OP, the answer is that so long as you have a good, unselfish reason to put off children then it is absolutely fine to use it to avoid as long as needed.

The Church’s teaching about artificial contraception vs NFP (ie abstinance) is not at all based on some idea that Catholic couples must constantly be procreating or else they are sinning. That is how some people misinterperet Church teaching, but that is not actual Church teaching. Rather, the difference lies in respecting the nature of sex and its link to babies vs disrespecting this nature and link by changing the circumstances surrounding a particular act of sex to change it so that it is no longer ordered towards children. Basically, what this means is that there is nothing wrong with having sex while you are infertile, and there is nothing wrong with abstaining from sex for a good reason, what is wrong is doing something to your body or to the sexual act to either render it infertile or make it so that it is no longer ordered towards procreation.

You should read JPII’s Theology of the Body and Love and Responsibility. They are not always easy reading, but they are very insightful into the Church’s view and understanding of the nature of sexuality.

 

[thewanderer]

I don’t think my post came across exactly how I meant it. I think there is a difference between having a valid reason once you are married to avoid having a child (which you can’t always put an expiration date on) and planning and preparing to have a valid reason (pursuing a career/education) to avoid having a child before you have even taken your vows. You stand at the altar and vow to be open to life from that moment on, but you’re already planning on using NFP for up to 6 years to avoid having a baby? I personally think it sounds a bit too much like using NFP to plan your ideal time frame and leaving God out of the marriage and His will for your family size.

Well, I mean, it depends. I am facing the possibility of having to use NFP to avoid when I get married later this year, if I need to, I don’t know for how long I will need to, although it now looks as though it would be unlikely I would need to for nearly the same length of timeframe that the OP is talking about. Here’s the thing though. Me and my fiance have both discerned that marriage is our vocation, in particular, that marriage to each other is our vocation, and our relationship has developed to the point that we are ready to be married, emotionally, spiritually etc. So we are now planning our wedding for later on this year. We discerned what God’s will for our lives was, getting married, and then left everything in his hands. If he wants us to have children right away he will help us get into a position where it is actually possible to have children etc. And things are looking a heck of a lot more promising with regard to children now than they were a month ago. Is the fact that a month ago I believed we were going to have to practice NFP for a long time in the beginning of our marriage a sign that I am leaving God out of my marriage and ignoring His will for our family size and instead trying to impose my own will into the matter? Not at all. Rather, it was simply my response to the current situation I found myself in, while, at the same time, I prayed that if God wanted us to be able to have kids sooner he help us out to get to a better place financially so that that would be possible. You are making far too many assumptions about the OP and even people in general and it comes across as being a little offensive. I certainly hope you did not intend it to be such.

 

[Usige]

Yeah we are doing masters because with our degrees, there is basically nothing you can do without a masters. Are you saying we shouldnt do masters?

Not really. What I mean is that you need to realize that often a masters degree takes a while to pay off. Depending on the field of study it can take several years before you break even. For example I am well established in my career. If I took a master’s degree it might bump my salary 3 - 7%, but even at 5% it would take me 6 - 7 years to pay off the $24,000 student loan using just that salary bump. If finances are the main reason you are looking to put off a family you need to factor in what it will cost to payoff two student loans for masters degrees. Will that push your financial readiness further out? Also are you willing to make sacrifices to have children when you might have just started your career and have student loans to pay off?

In reality what I was trying to get at is that you need to evaluate if your career plans are going to be at odds with having a family. Too often people plan to have a family but never get around to it because of finances, career aspirations, or some other precondition that never is met. I guess what I am saying is to ask yourself if you are getting married becasue you want a family? If one of the answers is not yes then you need to think about if getting married is the right choice at this time.

 

[illyxo]

Not really. What I mean is that you need to realize that often a masters degree takes a while to pay off. Depending on the field of study it can take several years before you break even. For example I am well established in my career. If I took a master’s degree it might bump my salary 3 - 7%, but even at 5% it would take me 6 - 7 years to pay off the $24,000 student loan using just that salary bump. If finances are the main reason you are looking to put off a family you need to factor in what it will cost to payoff two student loans for masters degrees. Will that push your financial readiness further out? Also are you willing to make sacrifices to have children when you might have just started your career and have student loans to pay off?

In reality what I was trying to get at is that you need to evaluate if your career plans are going to be at odds with having a family. Too often people plan to have a family but never get around to it because of finances, career aspirations, or some other precondition that never is met. I guess what I am saying is to ask yourself if you are getting married becasue you want a family? If one of the answers is not yes then you need to think about if getting married is the right choice at this time.

Yes of course I want to have a family. But Id like to also do my masters as I believe that being a psychologist is my calling. But I dont want to wait years and years to marry my boyfriend. And it may take a while to break even but in the long run it will be good. Debt repayments are a pain.

 

[PatriceA]

Well, I mean, it depends. I am facing the possibility of having to use NFP to avoid when I get married later this year, if I need to, I don’t know for how long I will need to, although it now looks as though it would be unlikely I would need to for nearly the same length of timeframe that the OP is talking about. Here’s the thing though. Me and my fiance have both discerned that marriage is our vocation, in particular, that marriage to each other is our vocation, and our relationship has developed to the point that we are ready to be married, emotionally, spiritually etc. So we are now planning our wedding for later on this year. We discerned what God’s will for our lives was, getting married, and then left everything in his hands. If he wants us to have children right away he will help us get into a position where it is actually possible to have children etc. And things are looking a heck of a lot more promising with regard to children now than they were a month ago. Is the fact that a month ago I believed we were going to have to practice NFP for a long time in the beginning of our marriage a sign that I am leaving God out of my marriage and ignoring His will for our family size and instead trying to impose my own will into the matter? Not at all. Rather, it was simply my response to the current situation I found myself in, while, at the same time, I prayed that if God wanted us to be able to have kids sooner he help us out to get to a better place financially so that that would be possible. You are making far too many assumptions about the OP and even people in general and it comes across as being a little offensive. I certainly hope you did not intend it to be such.

I think you are asking me to give the OP and many people in her position a “free pass” to be honest. If my opinion comes across as a bit offensive, I’m not really going to apologize for that, because I think it hits too close to a nerve for some people and can’t see objectively. I think too many couples plan on using on NFP without the necessary discernment. You have prayed about your situation and you have indicated you will continue to pray about your situation. I don’t see any indication from the OP that she plans to engage in that process and pray for God’s will for her and her future husband continuously over the six years she has planned to use NFP to avoid getting pregnant.

I think the only assumption I might be making is that I took my vow to be “open to life” on my wedding day to mean I was open to life the minute I walked back down the aisle as husband and wife. Perhaps you don’t see it that way, perhaps other couples don’t see it that way. I only planned on using NFP if and when life circumstances presented a situation that we had to temporarily use NFP to avoid having a baby. I didn’t preplan those life circumstances.

 

[thewanderer]

I think you are asking me to give the OP and many people in her position a “free pass” to be honest. If my opinion comes across as a bit offensive, I’m not really going to apologize for that, because I think it hits too close to a nerve for some people and can’t see objectively. I think too many couples plan on using on NFP without the necessary discernment. You have prayed about your situation and you have indicated you will continue to pray about your situation. I don’t see any indication from the OP that she plans to engage in that process and pray for God’s will for her and her future husband continuously over the six years she has planned to use NFP to avoid getting pregnant.

I think the only assumption I might be making is that I took my vow to be “open to life” on my wedding day to mean I was open to life the minute I walked back down the aisle as husband and wife. Perhaps you don’t see it that way, perhaps other couples don’t see it that way. I only planned on using NFP if and when life circumstances presented a situation that we had to temporarily use NFP to avoid having a baby. I didn’t preplan those life circumstances.

Nope, sorry, but I am not at all asking you to give the OP a free pass as in tell her that any and every reason to use NFP to avoid is aok and that since she plans on using NFP rather than contraception she must have a valid reason. Rather, what I am asking you to do is to not assume that the OP is not being careful about this or being honest with herself about whether her motivations are selfish or not. Should you advise her to be careful to ensure she does not try to force her own will above God’s will? Sure, should you advise her that it is easy to allow selfishness to blind oneself to God’s will in this matter? Of course, go ahead. The problem is thats not what you did. You assumed that since she is planning on using it for a long time she must be doing so selfishly and so you went ahead and told her that you think she would be wrong to use NFP. That is simply wrong. You cannot make that kind of judgement. You do not know her or her situation. Is it possible that she is planning on using NFP selfishly? Absolutely. And so there is nothing wrong with cautioning her against such a selfish use. However, we cannot know whether or not she is so it is absolutely wrong to tell her that it would be wrong and sinful for her to use NFP. Neither of us can know that.

 

[Usige]

Yes of course I want to have a family. But Id like to also do my masters as I believe that being a psychologist is my calling. But I dont want to wait years and years to marry my boyfriend. And it may take a while to break even but in the long run it will be good. Debt repayments are a pain.

Good to hear. I am just trying to get you thinking about what marriage is. The questions I asked you to ask yourself are the same we’d ask of any couple in our marriage prep or NFP classes who state that they want to avoid for prolonged periods. Too many times when we ask why people want to marry they say “because we’re in love” while not mentioning a family. While love is a good place to start, love is not the primary ends of marriage. So many Catholics are poorly catechised on the sacrament of marriage and they do not look beyond the feel good now. Marriage is a sacrifice. Marriage while using NFP is a huge sacrifice that should not be taken lightly. I don’t think most couples starting out realize that.

NFP is not supposed to be the default or normal mode in marriage. One should pray and discern each month wether they still have need to avoid. Just make sure that your goal to avoid does not become the primary ends of your marriage.

 

[quiet52]

So Im 23 and my bf is 30. I am Catholic, he is bit of a lapsed Catholic. We have been together 8months. We had sex in the beginning of the relationship but now have stopped as I realised waiting til marriage was right. Anyways, he asked me to marry him and I said yes, but the problem is we are still studying and will be poor as chips for the next 4years. But really, I dont want to wait 4years to get married, not just because of sex, but because we want to be together as soon as possible as we enjoy each other’s company and closeness. So I’d like to get married in the next year or two. Problem is, we wont be able to bring a child into this world for another 5 or 6years (until we get a fulltime job after study, etc). But we dont want to wait 5 or 6yrs to get married and have sex just so we can be sure we can be ready for a baby. What should we do? Put off having children for the first few years of marriage? Use NFP religiously for years? He cant use condoms and Im shocking on the pill so even if I weren’t Catholic I wouldnt use contraception anyway as my body cant handle it. Advice please!

It is important that both of you, not just you, strive to fully understand and embrace the teachings of the Church concerning the sacrament of Matrimony.

Is your fiance’s status as a “lapsed Catholic” okay with you? Have you consulted with a priest about what that may mean for you personally, especially concerning your continued adherence to the faith? Do you realize that your fiance’s laxity about the faith can pull you down over time? Is marrying more important than living a life of faith as God wills (rather than how your future spouse may will)?

One of my nephews faced similar concerns – how to “juggle” marriage and college/career, and how to avoid parenting. His pastor asked him and his fiance to pray on whether their careers were to be all about their private goals, and how important they were relative to marriage and family. They did a lot of soul-searching, praying and discussing before deciding to marry.

You asked for advice. Mine is that the two of you schedule several meetings with your pastor, and ask him to guide the two of you in discerning your readiness, and to prepare you to live the faith together with more faithfulness. Don’t merely ask a bunch of us strangers on the Internet for advice.

I also suggest that both of you read, reflect on, pray on, and discuss together what the Church has to teach about the sacrament of Matrimony in general, and about the issue you have posted in this forum about.

For Your Marriage, An initiative by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops for dating & engaged couples, parenting & family, and married couples
foryourmarriage.org/

Humanae Vitae (“Of Human Life”), Encyclical by Pope Paul VI, 7/25/1968
vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

Marriage:Love and Life in the Divine Plan, A Pastoral Letter of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, 11/17/2009
usccb.org/issues-and-action/marriage-and-family/marriage/love-and-life/index.cfm

Moral Use of Natural Family Planning by Dr. Janet Smith
lifeissues.net/writers/smith/smith_24moralusenfp.html

Contraception:Why Not? by Dr. Janet Smith
catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/se0002.html

 

[aspirant]

we wont be financially able to have children for a long while, so openness to the possibility of children may not be viable for the first few years of marriage…can you use NFP to not conceive, if the circumstances for not having a child yet are valid?

I think you’re misunderstanding me. Yes, you may use NFP to delay pregnancy. But each time you have sex, conception is possible, however unlikely. If you do nothing to deliberately frustrate that capacity of the act (contraception), if you are willing to welcome any children who might be conceived (however remote the possibility), that’s the kind of openness I’m talking about.

 

[aspirant]

You stand at the altar and vow to be open to life from that moment on, but you’re already planning on using NFP for up to 6 years to avoid having a baby?

While I agree with everyone who has said “there is no perfect time” and would heartily encourage the OP to review and reconsider plans on a regular basis (something using NFP both allows and encourages), a delay such as the one proposed wouldn’t invalidate the marriage or something like that.

there is nothing wrong with having sex while you are infertile, and there is nothing wrong with abstaining from sex for a good reason, what is wrong is doing something to your body or to the sexual act to either render it infertile or make it so that it is no longer ordered towards procreation.

You should read JPII’s Theology of the Body and Love and Responsibility. They are not always easy reading, but they are very insightful into the Church’s view and understanding of the nature of sexuality.

Very good recommendations.

I don’t see any indication from the OP that she plans to engage in that process and pray for God’s will for her and her future husband continuously over the six years she has planned to use NFP to avoid getting pregnant.

I don’t see any indication from the OP that she will not pray for God’s will and discern continuously over the next six years. Why should we assume that she will not? If your concern is that she continue to prayerfully discern, why not-- instead of insinuating that she is not discerning-- just ask about her discernment plans or generally suggest how important that is and what it means?

I took my vow to be “open to life” on my wedding day to mean I was open to life the minute I walked back down the aisle as husband and wife.

The vow does mean you’re supposed to be open to life immediately. And every single minute thereafter. Absolutely everyone should be, regardless whether they’re using NFP.

Unfortunately, the sentence as you’ve written it, whether you intended it or not, suggests that a couple using NFP to delay or space births is “not open to life.” Such an assumption is unjust. On the contrary, using NFP as a way to delay or space births allows a couple to remain open to life even while they’re avoiding pregnancy.

I only planned on using NFP if and when life circumstances presented a situation that we had to temporarily use NFP to avoid having a baby.

This appears to be exactly what the OP is proposing.

what I am asking you to do is to not assume that the OP is not being careful about this or being honest with herself about whether her motivations are selfish or not. Should you advise her to be careful to ensure she does not try to force her own will above God’s will? Sure, should you advise her that it is easy to allow selfishness to blind oneself to God’s will in this matter? Of course, go ahead. The problem is thats not what you did. You assumed that since she is planning on using it for a long time she must be doing so selfishly and so you went ahead and told her that you think she would be wrong to use NFP. That is simply wrong. You cannot make that kind of judgement. You do not know her or her situation. Is it possible that she is planning on using NFP selfishly? Absolutely. And so there is nothing wrong with cautioning her against such a selfish use. However, we cannot know whether or not she is so it is absolutely wrong to tell her that it would be wrong and sinful for her to use NFP. Neither of us can know that.

I agree wholeheartedly with this.

While love is a good place to start, love is not the primary ends of marriage.

Love is the meaning of marriage, its origin and goal. I’m guessing you’re referring to the fact that marriage has a twofold end, both the good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life. Of course conjugal love serves these, they cannot both be realized without love. But marriage is much more. It’s a sacrament. It confers the grace of divine life to us, and its ultimate goal is Love: “The ultimate end of the whole divine economy is the entry of God’s creatures into the perfect unity of the Blessed Trinity.”

Marriage while using NFP is a huge sacrifice that should not be taken lightly. I don’t think most couples starting out realize that.

I agree. Nothing about marriage should be taken lightly!

It is important that both of you, not just you, strive to fully understand and embrace the teachings of the Church concerning the sacrament of Matrimony.

Agreed. Even if the boyfriend does not believe it, I would not recommend marrying him unless he is willing to actually live it every day for the rest of his life. And in order to be willing and in order to do it, he must work toward understanding what it is and isn’t.

 

[aspirant]

Do you realize that your fiance’s laxity about the faith can pull you down over time?

That’s possible, certainly. The opposite is also possible, as we have seen and have assurance from scripture. We cannot make any assumptions in this regard, and neither should the OP. We know what is possible (this could go terribly, this could go well), we do not know what is probable. How the OP responds to her circumstances and to God’s grace will depend on the OP. She should not be afraid. What she should really be concerned about is how difficult this can be and whether it’s a step she’s really prepared to take.

They need to be having some serious, honest talks with each other about their faith differences and what those will mean down the road, what their expectations are, how they will respond to various circumstances. And they need to be discussing this with their pastor.

You asked for advice. Mine is that the two of you schedule several meetings with your pastor, and ask him to guide the two of you in discerning your readiness, and to prepare you to live the faith together with more faithfulness. Don’t merely ask a bunch of us strangers on the Internet for advice.

Agreed.

 

[Offdoodykcrn]

Definitely understandable. I think NFP is a fair enough option. Still you may be very surprised how much a baby might relieve some of your stress because of the love it will bring out of both you and your boyfriend. My advice is don’t completely close the door to the joy God can bring you, but it’s your call, and you’re not sinning by being prudent.

Having a baby does not relieve stress. Having children can be wonderful, it is most certainly life-changing, but no one who has had children would recommend getting pregnant to relieve stress.

 

[marubcic]

Having a baby does not relieve stress. Having children can be wonderful, it is most certainly life-changing, but no one who has had children would recommend getting pregnant to relieve stress.

Agree with this. It is a HUGE responsibility, the biggest one you will ever have.