Bi-location and Quantum Physics

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But seriously. Is there any remotely plausible theory to explain this phenomenon? There are several Star Trek episodes I can think of. Alternate universes? But then the second version of the bi-locating person would need a goatee. I don’t think this would work for Sister Maria of Agreda.

Maybe a Dr. Who like time travel? But then you have the problem of crossing paths with your duplicate, and tearing apart the space time continuum. Padre Pio as Time-Lord? 😃

This is one of these phenomena, along with the flying monk from Cupertino that really captures the imagination. Why in the world would God allow such things to happen? What does it indicate? Or is it even from God at all?

God bless,
Ut
 
Bilocation of an electron in quantum physics is possible because an electron doesn’t contain information,

but bilocation of a human being would require transferring total information about every atom in his body and the relationships of all the atoms to each other etc etc etc etc. :eek:

It ain’t going to happen any time soon. 🤷
 
I’m fuzzy on the details, but I know that electrons could bi-locate. Which made me think about the fact that reported occurrences of bi-location are only ever bi-located. Never tri-located (three places at once). Could God, or some hidden innate ability in humanity, be using this property of matter?

Seems unlikely, given what you’ve said above. It would seem to require a much higher power to make this happen. Or, we have untapped abilities.

Still, it is interesting that this phenomenon only seems to happen to holy people. At least the only stories I’ve heard of are about religious people. Does anyone know of any non-catholics, non-christians, having this ability?

God bless,
Ut
 
If bi-location did happen, it would be a miracle, so no need to worry about the physics of it.
 
Maybe via wormholes? Physicists are exploring the possibilities of wormholes. They likely occur naturally, but they are very small and unstable and they probably collapse within seconds. But the physics of wormholes suggests that a person could be on one side of the wormhole in one moment and pass through the wormhole nearly instantaneously to arrive one the other side, and that time would pass at different rates on either side.
 
imagine what life will be like in another 100 or so years…It may be the norm to go to another dimension for the weekend?! This is where quantum physics will get us, mankind will be able to go to alternate dimensions, other planes, etc, it will be amazing to see what lives in those places!
 
If bi-location did happen, it would be a miracle, so no need to worry about the physics of it.
C.S. Lewis, in his book, Miracles, mentions there are two types of miracles: those that do not break the laws of nature, and those that do break them. I am wondering if the miracle of bi-location is one of those that do not break the laws of nature. That is completely beyond all laws of nature. I’m probably not expressing what he said correctly … I have to reread the chapter. Anyway, I’m looking at whether there is a possible way of explaining what happened in a scientific way. Even theoretical.

I don’t worry about it though. It is more something I marvel about. Also, I am trying to imagine what God could possible me wanted to reveal to us in these manifestations.

God bless,
Ut
 
There have been numerous reports of bi-location of Saints in the History of The Church. All of these cases are miriculous in nature and have nothing to do with earthly science.
All the rest is fictictious and lies in the realm of Science Fiction…somthing only believed in by adolescents and and immature adults who have no background in real science.
 
Science fiction has often predicted real scientific advances, hundreds of years before they happened. Our imagination is part and parcel of our creativity. From it, we produce scientific insight, we conceive of theories, test them, refine them, using the scientific method.

Bi-location is clearly miraculous. None of the saints seem to have any idea how it was happening, but that does not mean there isn’t a way of explaining such miracles in a scientific way… and by explain, I don’t mean, explain away.

Have you read C.S. Lewis’ book ā€œMiraclesā€. Do you think he was an immature adult?

God bless,
Ut
 
There have been numerous reports of bi-location of Saints in the History of The Church. All of these cases are miriculous in nature and have nothing to do with earthly science.
All the rest is fictictious and lies in the realm of Science Fiction…somthing only believed in by adolescents and and immature adults who have no background in real science.
It is not kind to call people immature simply because they wonder if the ways that God accomplished some miraculous events might actually follow His own design of the universe. I am interested in such lines of thinking, yet I have graduate school education in chemistry, including graduate-level quantum mechanics, and have enjoyed for my whole adult life the continual blurring of the lines between science and science fiction. Black holes were once thought to be science fiction, but we now know that they are crucial to the development of galaxies. Furthermore, at the end of time when we all have glorified bodies, which will be able to do all the miraculous things that Jesus and the Blessed Virgin now do, there will be some sort of physics designed by God. What is interesting to ponder is whether or not such laws are already in place and whether we might be able to catch glimpses of them. Many very intelligent and faithful people believe that such is possible.
 
Science fiction has often predicted real scientific advances, hundreds of years before they happened. Out imagination is part and parcel of our creativity. From it, we produce scientific insight, we conceive of theories, test them, refine them, using the scientific method.

Bi-location is clearly miraculous. None of the saints seem to have any idea how it was happening, but that does not mean there isn’t a way of explaining such miracles in a scientific way… and by explain, I don’t mean, explain away.

Have you read C.S. Lewis’ book ā€œMiraclesā€. Do you think he was an immature adult?

God bless,
Ut
šŸ‘
 
šŸæ:yup::yup::yup::yup:šŸæ

But seriously. Is there any remotely plausible theory to explain this phenomenon? There are several Star Trek episodes I can think of. Alternate universes? But then the second version of the bi-locating person would need a goatee. I don’t think this would work for Sister Maria of Agreda.

Maybe a Dr. Who like time travel? But then you have the problem of crossing paths with your duplicate, and tearing apart the space time continuum. Padre Pio as Time-Lord? 😃

This is one of these phenomena, along with the flying monk from Cupertino that really captures the imagination. Why in the world would God allow such things to happen? What does it indicate? Or is it even from God at all?

God bless,
Ut
Many of the saints of old could perform bi-location and levitation. It was quite common among the ancient sages.

We are too trapped in concepts of space, time and matter, which, of course, are simply illusions. The saints and mystics recognise this, and pay no more regard to the laws of physics than to rules of a child’s game.

The Venerable Fransiscan Saint of Cupertino said he regarded this world as ā€œmerely children calling to each other in the marketplace.ā€ Thus he could not care less about the laws of gravity, position and matter, and so levitated freely.

The spiritual life of today, and the state of philosophy has degenerated to the point were bi-location and levitation are rare. The saints of old passed through innumerable universes at will, and thought nothing of it. They realised that there is nothing but mind, and that all mind is the Supreme Mind…
 
This is one of these phenomena, along with the flying monk from Cupertino that really captures the imagination.
Are there any photos or videos of the flying monk from Cupertino? I know that there are reports about Buddha (or Siddhartha) that when he was born he was able to walk immediately, perhaps on air, because immediately, at each one of his steps, a lotus flower miraculously appeared on the ground below him. I suppose that these things could occur, but I would be inclined to be somewhat skeptical.
 
It is not kind to call people immature simply because they wonder if the ways that God accomplished some miraculous events might actually follow His own design of the universe. I am interested in such lines of thinking, yet I have graduate school education in chemistry, including graduate-level quantum mechanics, and have enjoyed for my whole adult life the continual blurring of the lines between science and science fiction. Black holes were once thought to be science fiction, but we now know that they are crucial to the development of galaxies. Furthermore, at the end of time when we all have glorified bodies, which will be able to do all the miraculous things that Jesus and the Blessed Virgin now do, there will be some sort of physics designed by God. What is interesting to ponder is whether or not such laws are already in place and whether we might be able to catch glimpses of them. Many very intelligent and faithful people believe that such is possible.
This is a good point. It falls in line with what Lewis was trying to say in his book on Miracles. He was analyzing the very concept of miracles.

One class falls in the category of ā€œwithin the realm of the possible, but extremely unlikely events, or very fortuitousā€ such as the great catch of fish, the gold coin in the fish caught by Peter, trees suddenly dying over night after being cursed by Jesus, and so on,

Another class falls in that more numinous realm where the normal laws o nature seem changed. For example, walking on water, the transfiguration, the resurrection, and to a lesser extent, the raising of Lazarus from the dead after being dead for thee days, the appearing and disappearing at will that Jesus manifests post resurrection, and even levitation in the descriptions of his glorified body being taken up into heaven. Here we see glimpses, as you mention mommamaree, of a possible future state, where our current limitations don’t seem to apply anymore.

The normal properties of matter seem altered. But are they completely broken or replaced by God with some new set of physical properties? Or are those properties already part of his current design, and although they might break was we currently consider possible, are not unthinkable?

God bless,
Ut
 
I love science fiction and conidering applying it, but I don’t think attempting bi-location would be safe. If it is a natural occurance, it will be proven with time, but if it is supernatural and a person attempts it, that person might accidentally get help from a demon. And if you let one into your life, it will be hard to make it leave.
 
For one thing, I don’t think the saints were attempting to bi-locate when they did. God simply sent them somewhere for a purpose.

I think on one occasion Padre Pio was sent to stop an Italian general from committing suicide.

When the General later came to Padre Pio for confession, Padre Pio said ā€œThat was a close one, eh, General?ā€

If a saint bi-locates, I think we can assume God’s got a reason for it, and He’s not just letting them muck around with spiritual showmanship.

It will have nothing to do with quantum physics, any more than Christ’s feeding the crowd of 5000 men (plus women and children) with a few loaves of bread and a couple of fish was due to quantum physics.
 
Agreed. It does not seem like bi-location ever happens for frivolous reasons or showboating. But although the physical phenomenon is impressive, the real cause of interest is that it usually seems to happen for a good reason - such as saving a person’s life, like the scenario you mentioned with saint Padre Pio, or evangelizing the natives of North America for Maria Egreda.

The church always pays more attention to the moral end of a miraculous event than to the miraculous event itself. Or at least, the church tends to evaluate such events this way.

It reminds me of the story of Saint Thomas Aquinas, who was called in to see a levitating nun. Apparently he just looked at her floating there and commented, ā€œI didn’t know nuns wore such big boots.ā€ The comment seemed to stir/annoy the nun out of her trance and she returned to the earth a little miffed. That seems to imply the cause of the nun’s levitation was not necessarily associated with her holiness. God may have imparted the miracle to a less than perfect nun, or perhaps the devil had a hand in the event. Who knows.

Apparently Saint Thomas himself was known to levitate, although I can’t find the actual source, it is mentioned by Chesterton in an essay of his on Aquinas:
Then he could be compared with other saints or theologians, as mystic rather than dogmatic. For he was, like a sensible man, a mystic in private and a philosopher in public. He had ā€œreligious experienceā€ all right; but he did not, in the modern manner, ask other people to reason from his experience. He only asked them to reason from their own experience. His experiences included well-attested cases of levitation in ecstasy; and the Blessed Virgin appeared to him, comforting him with the welcome news that he would never be a Bishop.
Can you imagine the huge Thomas Aquinas floating around in the air! :eek:

From a religious perspective it seems that levitation itself is no absolute sign of sanctity. But it would seem to bolster the claims to authoritative preaching or theology, if that preaching and theology be deemed in line with the doctrine of the church. I mean, can you imagine the saint from Cupertino preaching a sermon, then start flying overhead in an ecstasy? I know I would be amazed, and moved to take to heart what he was saying. Perhaps that is the root cause for such happenings. The dogmatic constitution, Dei Filius, has this to say about miracles:
However, in order that the ā€œobedienceā€ of our faith should be ā€œconsonant with reasonā€ [cf. Rom 12:1], God has willed that to the internal aids of the Holy Spirit there should be joined external proofs of His revelation, namely: divine facts, especially miracles and prophecies which, because they clearly show forth the omnipotence and infinite knowledge of God, are most certain signs of a divine revelation, and are suited to the intelligence of all. Wherefore, not only Moses and the prophets, but especially Christ the Lord Himself, produced many genuine miracles and prophecies; and we read concerning the apostles: ā€œBut they going forth preached everywhere: the Lord working withal and confirming the word with signs that followedā€ [Mk 16:20]. And again it is written: ā€œAnd we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark placeā€ [2Pet 1:19].
Although this passage seems to apply only to divine revelation, it can also be practically applied to the miracles of saints.

Just some thoughts anyway. I still think we can have some fun trying to speculate what underlying science could be involved in these miracles.

God bless,
Ut
 
I don’t believe it is a natural occurrence; otherwise we would hear about it occurring overwhelming with regular people since we greatly outnumber Saints, gurus, and other very holy people.
 
From a religious perspective it seems that levitation itself is no absolute sign of sanctity. But it would seem to bolster the claims to authoritative preaching or theology, if that preaching and theology be deemed in line with the doctrine of the church. I mean, can you imagine the saint from Cupertino preaching a sermon, then start flying overhead in an ecstasy? I know I would be amazed, and moved to take to heart what he was saying. Perhaps that is the root cause for such happenings.

God bless,
Ut
St. Joseph of Cupertino was basically kept under lock and key, in seclusion, by the Order, because of the publicity his levitation was attracting.

I suppose if a person who openly displayed such experiences were to appear, and be witnessed and tested, hundreds or thousands would be converted. But I don’t feel that this is how God works.

It is said that a sign of true sanctity is always the desire to withdraw from the world and the sight or recognition of others.
 
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