"Bible alone," Christians

[Blacksword]

I see this is a very touchy subject for many and many just are really down on bible alone or Prottestant churches period, I do understand its because some people on this message board have had first hand experience with some other churches apart from Catholic (RC whatever yous want to call it).

I guess for myself to of been born a Catholic, RC, and never strayed for over 50 years or attended another Church except for a wedding, and never started listening to Protestant speakers tilll about a few years ago, I don’t have that negative opinion and also most of my friends are Protestant, and now even a couple members of my family.

I find some of their sermons very enlightening, and have grown fond of listening to a few of them.

Also really beng here at CAF for a bit over a year,(I’m aware my sign in is earlier but I just came here to ask one quest. and that was it, but then came back a bit over a year ago to ask a few more questions, I never realized the issues between Catholics and Protestant, Bible alone, or even it seems Lutherns also, were so heated and that there was so much alienation against each other.

I actually came back here after hearing a couple tv preachers saying neg things about Catholics, and well I see Catholics feel the same way I have found since being here. Its almost sounds like a hatred sometimes.

I find this all very sad. I want to add I never hear this stuff on EWTN or ever in a homily (putting down Bible alone.) from Priests, so most of it must come from first hand experience.

But where have you seen this “putting down” of bible alone Christians? No one that I have seen has written inflammatory things about them, called them names, or unfairly mischaracterized their positions or beliefs. These things ARE commonly done to Catholics, but that has not happened here. Providing a rational, intellectual critiquing of another’s position is not an insult. And all that has gone on here is explaining why solo scriptura is itself unbiblical and a flawed theological construct. Pointing this out doesn’t mean we hate those who adhere to it. Far from it: my entire family is Baptist, it’s the tradition I was raised in, and I love them dearly, despite having concluded that this understanding they have of Christianity is a flawed and incomplete one.

 

[pgepps]

But where have you seen this “putting down” of bible alone Christians? No one that I have seen has written inflammatory things about them, called them names, or unfairly mischaracterized their positions or beliefs. These things ARE commonly done to Catholics, but that has not happened here. Providing a rational, intellectual critiquing of another’s position is not an insult. And all that has gone on here is explaining why solo scriptura is itself unbiblical and a flawed theological construct. Pointing this out doesn’t mean we hate those who adhere to it. Far from it: my entire family is Baptist, it’s the tradition I was raised in, and I love them dearly, despite having concluded that this understanding they have of Christianity is a flawed and incomplete one.

Ditto, Blacksword. My father is an Independent Baptist pastor, and my wife and I are both from active Baptist families; we both concluded the Catholic faith was right, and The Church was “the right church,” but I was a professor in an evangelical college at the time…I left, but on anything but hostile terms. Scripture is vital to any Christian’s faith, but one’s own reading of it is not enough for any Christian tradition.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

I see this is a very touchy subject for many and many just are really down on bible alone or Prottestant churches period, I do understand its because some people on this message board have had first hand experience with some other churches apart from Catholic (RC whatever yous want to call it).

I guess for myself to of been born a Catholic, RC, and never strayed for over 50 years or attended another Church except for a wedding, and never started listening to Protestant speakers tilll about a few years ago, I don’t have that negative opinion and also most of my friends are Protestant, and now even a couple members of my family.

I find some of their sermons very enlightening, and have grown fond of listening to a few of them.

Also really beng here at CAF for a bit over a year,(I’m aware my sign in is earlier but I just came here to ask one quest. and that was it, but then came back a bit over a year ago to ask a few more questions, I never realized the issues between Catholics and Protestant, Bible alone, or even it seems Lutherns also, were so heated and that there was so much alienation against each other.

I actually came back here after hearing a couple tv preachers saying neg things about Catholics, and well I see Catholics feel the same way I have found since being here. Its almost sounds like a hatred sometimes.

I find this all very sad. I want to add I never hear this stuff on EWTN or ever in a homily (putting down Bible alone.) from Priests, so most of it must come from first hand experience.

IMHO , personal opinions have nothing to do with truth.

What some individuals say does not represent all and definitely does not represent the Magisterium.

The biggest controversy is that it is very audacious to leave your parents house and take their “rules” book with you, take some chapters out, change some words in it and then say that your parent are wrong and you know the right way of using the “rules” book. And, btw, your other 12 brothers also left the house with you and took a copy of the “rules” book but they don’t agree with you on how the “rules” are applied, so they have their own version of it.

If you read the “Dominus Iesus” document you’ll know pretty much how I feel in regards to your other questions. Other than that it is a mystery beyond my comprehension, however, that does not give me a license to be disobedient.

In Him,

Jose

 

[Newsy]

I see this is a very touchy subject for many and many just are really down on bible alone or Prottestant churches period, I do understand its because some people on this message board have had first hand experience with some other churches apart from Catholic (RC whatever yous want to call it).

I guess for myself to of been born a Catholic, RC, and never strayed for over 50 years or attended another Church except for a wedding, and never started listening to Protestant speakers tilll about a few years ago, I don’t have that negative opinion and also most of my friends are Protestant, and now even a couple members of my family.

I find some of their sermons very enlightening, and have grown fond of listening to a few of them.

Also really beng here at CAF for a bit over a year,(I’m aware my sign in is earlier but I just came here to ask one quest. and that was it, but then came back a bit over a year ago to ask a few more questions, I never realized the issues between Catholics and Protestant, Bible alone, or even it seems Lutherns also, were so heated and that there was so much alienation against each other.

I actually came back here after hearing a couple tv preachers saying neg things about Catholics, and well I see Catholics feel the same way I have found since being here. Its almost sounds like a hatred sometimes.

I find this all very sad. I want to add I never hear this stuff on EWTN or ever in a homily (putting down Bible alone.) from Priests, so most of it must come from first hand experience.

I think you are misinterpreting the comments on this forum. This is an apologetics forum, the idea is to defend/ discuss theology and aspects of religion. No one on this board is allowed to be rude or attacking toward other faiths, this is policed by the forum moderators. Many of us disagree theologically, but we maintain respect for each other. The idea of defending your understanding of Faith seems to be a hobby for some of us, therefore we engage in friendly discussions. The basis of this forum is that you must be able to defend your ideas, or not vocalize them in the first place. If somebody feels they need to spout their biased ideas, without proof, then they may feel “attacked”.

 

[uqjhiggi]

Where does it say in Scripture that Scripture is the sole, or even the highest, authority in the world?

1 Timothy 3: 14-15

I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these instructions to you so that, if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth

 

[MartinJordan]

That has nothing to do with the last supper.

My source scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c1a3.htm mentions this:

The institution of the Eucharist

1337 The Lord, having loved those who were his own, loved them to the end. Knowing that the hour had come to leave this world and return to the Father, in the course of a meal he washed their feet and gave them the commandment of love.163 In order to leave them a pledge of this love, in order never to depart from his own and to make them sharers in his Passover, he instituted the Eucharist as the memorial of his death and Resurrection, and commanded his apostles to celebrate it until his return; "thereby he constituted them priests of the New Testament."164

1338 The three synoptic Gospels and St. Paul have handed on to us the account of the institution of the Eucharist; St. John, for his part , reports the words of Jesus in the synagogue of Capernaum that prepare for the institution of the Eucharist: Christ calls himself the bread of life, come down from heaven. (John 6)

Larger letters and bold emphasis is mine.

MJ

 

[Luvtosew]

Everyone my apologies, I not referring to posters in this thread so much as the rift I have found between Protestants and Catholics in general which I was never aware of. I find it sad but there is one thing we do have in common and that is our Love for Jesus Christ and we just have to respect each other’s differences. So if I have offended anyone I’m truely sorry.

 

[David_Castlen]

There are some Christians out there who are “Bible alone” Christians. These Christians are Christians that believe in the Trinity and they believe in the Bible alone. They take a literal interpretation of the Bible and do not attend any Church service. There are certain Christians out there who believe in the Bible alone. Does any one know how much these “Bible alone,” Christians number?

And do these Bible alone Christians follow a certain leader or pastor or preacher? Like Benny Hinn, is Benny Hinn a Bible-alone Christian?

Thank you.

The best refutation of “Bible Alone” on CD is a CD done by Scott Hahn entiled “Bible Alone”.
I think 99.9% of all mainline Protestants are BA… that is the bases of our difference with them.
As far as a leader I think again 99.9% believe in a philosophy termed perpescuity; which says, the individual interprets the Bible with the help of the HS. So yes they have leaders in their churchs but they interpret the Bible on their own.

 

[Blacksword]

Ditto, Blacksword. My father is an Independent Baptist pastor, and my wife and I are both from active Baptist families; we both concluded the Catholic faith was right, and The Church was “the right church,” but I was a professor in an evangelical college at the time…I left, but on anything but hostile terms. Scripture is vital to any Christian’s faith, but one’s own reading of it is not enough for any Christian tradition.

This is interesting to me. Just a question out of curiosity if I may: did you leave your teaching position because you felt you couldn’t continue to teach there as a Catholic, or were you required to for converting? I just wondered why actually leaving should be necessary, thanks! And God bless you, glad you and your wife have come home too!

 

[David_Castlen]

I repectfully disagree, the Bible is authority over the Church.

Where would one find this in the bible?

 

[Luvtosew]

Sorry I’m leaving this thread, seems a person can’t voice an opinion without be jumped on. I believe the Bible is the final authority, if you want to believe the Church is over that Bible that is fine.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Sorry I’m leaving this thread, seems a person can’t voice an opinion without be jumped on. I believe the Bible is the final authority, if you want to believe the Church is over that Bible that is fine.

You are not being jumped on. You have made statements and your statements are being inquired about.

Authority is to God, anything else is but an instrument and like instruments, each has its own use and purpose.

Being challenged is but a great opportunity to grow and examine your set of ideas and beliefs.

You can find this in the Bible

[bibledrb]Proverbs 27:17[/bibledrb]

In Him.

 

[Nicea325]

Sorry I’m leaving this thread, seems a person can’t voice an opinion without be jumped on. I believe the Bible is the final authority, if you want to believe the Church is over that Bible that is fine.

No one should be jumping you about any opinion. Unfortunately my friend, your belief the Bible is the final authority has been rebuked and debunked many times by many individuals for many years. God Bless

 

[Luvtosew]

No one should be jumping you about any opinion. Unfortunately my friend, your belief the Bible is the final authority has been rebuked and debunked many times by many individuals for many years. God Bless

Yes my friend I know, thats why I have nothing more to say, its seems to be a 50/50 Christian debate…

 

[Farsight001]

Yes my friend I know, thats why I have nothing more to say, its seems to be a 50/50 Christian debate…

I don’t understand. It’s 50/50, so you’re going to stop? Is that how you work - stay at it if you’re winning, but stop if you’re not?

 

[PastorVW]

Even “Bible Alone” Christians (and I’m close to that position as a Wesleyan) believe that the Scriptures must illuminated by the Holy Spirit in order for them to have their full and desired effect (bringing people to faith in Christ and producing Spiritual growth.) For instance, it is not accurate to say that we believe someone can be saved any time they want to be saved. Why? Because we believe what the Bible says:
*
(John 6:44 NIV) “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.*
*
(John 12:32 NIV) But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.”*

My conclusion is that, in order for us to be saved, work by the Holy Spirit (on behalf of the Father and the Son) is essential. While the text says that He will draw all men, it does not say He will draw all men all the time. It is therefore critical that we respond when God speaks.

My point is that why we believe that the Bible contains every doctrine essential to salvation, we obviously believe that Scripture is not all it takes to bring about Salvation.

 

[Luvtosew]

I don’t understand. It’s 50/50, so you’re going to stop? Is that how you work - stay at it if you’re winning, but stop if you’re not?

No I’m not winning, but I’m not out to win anything, just voicing my opinion. I mean 50/50 by Protestant and RC views as far as the Christian population in the US. I feel Bible alone Churches are good if they have a spirit filled Preacher who knows the Bible. As a Catholic I feel theres just too much, but I’m simple, I’d rather have a balanced plate of food than well say a smogasboard. Mind you I love RC’s but I also have many Protestants that I love and I have great respect for them also. I believe all one needs is in the Bible for salvation, all the extras are just that extras.

 

[melekali]

There are some Christians out there who are “Bible alone” Christians. These Christians are Christians that believe in the Trinity and they believe in the Bible alone. They take a literal interpretation of the Bible and do not attend any Church service. There are certain Christians out there who believe in the Bible alone. Does any one know how much these “Bible alone,” Christians number?

And do these Bible alone Christians follow a certain leader or pastor or preacher? Like Benny Hinn, is Benny Hinn a Bible-alone Christian?

Thank you.

I wonder how many “bible alone” people have asked the question, “how did we get the bible?” When they do, they will cease the protestation.

 

[pgepps]

This is interesting to me. Just a question out of curiosity if I may: did you leave your teaching position because you felt you couldn’t continue to teach there as a Catholic, or were you required to for converting? I just wondered why actually leaving should be necessary, thanks! And God bless you, glad you and your wife have come home too!

It was a conservative evangelical Bible College with a distinctively [American] [Baptistic] [Evangelical] [Dispensational] Protestant mission. I actually had no problem teaching by its “we believe and teach” statement, and made it my point to work in the areas of confessional agreement for the remainder of my contract, but there was really no reasonable way to sign another contract with them. I told a bit more of this story in reply to a fretful commenter on this thread (be warned: some of the commentary on this site is deeply offensive, but not I hope mine). turretinfan.blogspot.com/2012/02/another-beckwith-like-apostasy-to-rome.html#comment-435670014

I had also worked for another evangelical liberal arts college with a Catholic colleague. The schools I attended before grad school, from K-12 through two colleges, would never have hired a Catholic (shoot, at some a Presbyterian would be shocking). Of four shades of Baptist school that I have worked with or been in job talks with, two have Catholics and other Christians of various degrees of orthodoxy (including Orthodoxy); one has Protestants of various flavors, but definitively (albeit in a rather backdoor fashion) excludes Catholics; and one hires only Baptists (who will agree to be involved with approved Baptist churches). Nothing about my church background would have led me to believe I could become Catholic without shedding most of my, if you will, “Christian network.” Still, there’s been no need for hostility or panic–just one clump of my friends, from my most Fundamentalist days, have been afflicted with rather extreme reactions; may God bring us all to peace. Sooner, in fact, would be better.

 

[MartinJordan]

“I believe all one needs is in the Bible for salvation”

Where in the Bible does it say this?

MJ