"Bible alone," Christians

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reformedman1 said:
Jesus Christ defined when he said that the messenger would come to write the faith into the hearts of men.
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JL: Rms12:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

Christ isn’t speaking of the body of Christ. He is speaking of the natual law, basically the ten commandment, written on ALL men’s heart. This would include believers and unbelievers.
 
jlhargus said:
JL: Rms12:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

Christ isn’t speaking of the body of Christ. He is speaking of the natual law, basically the ten commandment, written on ALL men’s heart. This would include believers and unbelievers.
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I was referring to the ascension: Act1 :7-8 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”
 
reformedman1 said:
well i would say that who the men were that recorded the word is not the main point. the bulk of the NT was accepted by christians by 100 AD. Jesus Christ tells you that Gods commands are infallible. He tells you not to add or take away from his word or you will fall victim to plagues. God is all powerful and is capable of having his will recorded. our whole history claims that the word of god is truth and not questionable. I know Catholics may feel that it is of their doing in cannonizing the bible but God is the author of the bible not the apostles or the CC.
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God is the author and how did he canonize the Bible? Through His Church and through its CATHOLIC bishops…a fact of Christianity! And the fact the NT was accepted by 100 AD does not prove or support the Bible-Alone.
 
reformedman1 said:
well i would say that who the men were that recorded the word is not the main point.
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So, does that mean that all men are equal? Does it matter who wrote the scripture? Many would argue that “in order to trust the words, we must trust the writer”. If the writer is not the main point, then why isn’t the Book of Enoch included in the Bible? I mean, it is quoted in scripture.
reformedman1 said:
He tells you not to add or take away from his word or you will fall victim to plagues.
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I humbly request a reference to this.
reformedman1 said:
God is all powerful and is capable of having his will recorded. our whole history claims that the word of god is truth and not questionable. I know Catholics may feel that it is of their doing in cannonizing the bible but God is the author of the bible not the apostles or the CC.
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Please define “our whole history”. During our whole history, many Protestants have questioned the word of God in written form. They even removed part of it from their Bibles.
I object to your statement, the Apostles authored Scripture under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. You seem to reject the idea that the canon of scripture was discerned by Catholic clergy, under guidance of the Holy Spirit.
 
reformedman1 said:
Jesus Christ is the authority in this matter as i pointed out. IS salvation an act of God or Man?
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God saves those who choose to accept His offer of salvation. He wishes that all men would accept Him, but many reject Him.😦
 
reformedman1 said:
In my View i see the CC as an institution/church body of man. I look at its history and just dont see it as having any special authority. I dont believe in Apostolic Succesion as Catholics Do. Even if you have a line tracing back to Peter i still dont see the infallible authority claim of the CC as being valid. I see many CC doctrines as questionable, You as a Catholic believe in your Church authority so you accept the interpretation. I cannot accept it.i see no evidence that the Apostles passed down any special authority via apostolic succesion. I believe the apostles were the foundation and not the start of a succesion of special authority given to a church body. I believe in the bible because God is all powerful and can assure that is word his preserved.
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If I may say so, you are wrong! Jesus Christ founded a Church, this is stated in Matthew 16 and proven in Acts. If you don’t believe in Apostolic Succession, please refer to Acts 1 starting with verse 12. The Apostles choose Matthias to replace Judas. They even quote the OT as the basis for their decision, “may another take his office”. Why would they need to fill the office of Judas, there were only a handful of believers at this time? Because God wanted the faith passed on, by Apostles and Bishops.

BTW, I only see the CC as the Authority after much study. I, too, was of the reformed theology. I found that it could not support itself.

You say that the Church had no special authority, but it preserved the teachings of Jesus, until the NT was written and Canonized. This was a work of God** through the CC.**
 
reformedman1 said:
well i would say that who the men were that recorded the word is not the main point. the bulk of the NT was accepted by christians by 100 AD. Jesus Christ tells you that Gods commands are infallible.** He tells you not to add or take away from his word or you will fall victim to plagues.** God is all powerful and is capable of having his will recorded. our whole history claims that the word of god is truth and not questionable. I know Catholics may feel that it is of their doing in cannonizing the bible but God is the author of the bible not the apostles or the CC.
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Then if this is so why was it OK to remove the Deuterocanonicals from the Bible and who did it?🤷
 
reformedman1 said:
depends on your defintion of a body of christ. i would guess that we have different definitions.
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Well let’s look.

The Church is the Body of Christ.
The Church is the Bride of Christ.
The Church is the Pillar and foundation of Truth.
If one transgresses and refuses to listen, take witness and he still refuses to listen take it to the Church
The Church is the Mystery hidden for all ages through which the Gentiles are fellow heirs with Christ
The Church is the Mystery hidden for all ages through which the manifold wisdom of God is known.

Romans 7 the New Covenant, the Body, the Bride is seen as having lost her spouse to death and therefore the Bride is free to marry Christ.

Christ is the head and has only one Body, for Christ is the same yesterday today and tommorrow. So there must be only one body not many.

The Church is the bride of Christ and Christ has not changed and therefore there can be only one Bride.

There can only be one source for the foundation of truth and since the truth does not change those carrying bibles claiming to be the body of Christ must be expressing unchanging truths from the time of Christ to now…where is that foundation of truth found?

If you are going to take it to the Church when someone refuses to listen to you which Church do you take it to?

The Church is the means by which Gentiles are fellow heirs…not churches but the Church. Where is it?

The Church is the mystery hidden for all ages evident to Paul when he wrote this and if it is the Bride and if it is the Body and if Christ does not change and neither does his body then where is the Body of Christ, that has not changed…not one that just popped up at the strip mall across the street?
 
Nicea325 said:
Okay,but how does that justify the thousands of different denominations? God authorized such a belief?
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I’m sure, my friend, that you will agree when I say…
Nothing justifies division or schism in His Church. There is a reason - human sin - but no justification.

Jon
 
reformedman1 said:
But how do these verses give the CC special authority?
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Romans 10:
14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”[g]

St. Paul was sent…

First…find out who founded the Church at Antioch…from that apostle…to the elders who ordained Paul and Barnabas…there you can find the line of apostolic succession.
 
I like the Bible.
I like the Church.
I like my fellow believers.

I don’t want any of them alone.

😃
 
Aquila_Lucis said:
Well, the Bible came from Sacred Tradition. Remember, Jesus left us a Church, not a book.

Blessings,
~M
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God Bless you!! Finally someone actually repeated something I have been saying to others ALL DAY LONG!

God Bless, 👍
 
reformedman1 said:
well i would say that who the men were that recorded the word is not the main point. the bulk of the NT was accepted by christians by 100 AD. Jesus Christ tells you that Gods commands are infallible. He tells you not to add or take away from his word or you will fall victim to plagues. God is all powerful and is capable of having his will recorded. our whole history claims that the word of god is truth and not questionable. I know Catholics may feel that it is of their doing in cannonizing the bible but God is the author of the bible not the apostles or the CC.
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Christ IS God. He gave Peter the charge of being the first Pope of His one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, ‘’ Apostolic’’= Universal in belief. All Catholics believe that the CC is the living continuing authority that teaches, governs and sanctifies in Jesus name. The ‘‘living authority’’ is called the Apostlate after the 12 Apostles., and it continues with their successors, From Peter down to Pope Benedict XVI. The Catholic Church’s Apostolic authority that perserves and authentically interprets the revelation of Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church’s Apostolic authority determined the canon of the Bible. And it is the CC that will preserve the teachings of Jesus in its fullness [nothing added to, or taken out of the Bible], uncorrupted from error until the end of time. The Popes are Christs vicars, the visible and earthly head of Christ’s Church. While Christ is the invisible and supreme head of the Church…

I hope you understand what I am trying to say reformedman1
Peace be with you always,
 
Bernadette173 said:
Christ IS God. He gave Peter the charge of being the first Pope of His one Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, ‘’ Apostolic’’= Universal in belief. All Catholics believe that the CC is the living continuing authority that teaches, governs and sanctifies in Jesus name. The ‘‘living authority’’ is called the Apostlate after the 12 Apostles., and it continues with their successors, From Peter down to Pope Benedict XVI. The Catholic Church’s Apostolic authority that perserves and authentically interprets the revelation of Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church’s Apostolic authority determined the canon of the Bible. And it is the CC that will preserve the teachings of Jesus in its fullness [nothing added to, or taken out of the Bible], uncorrupted from error until the end of time. The Popes are Christs vicars, the visible and earthly head of Christ’s Church. While Christ is the invisible and supreme head of the Church…

I hope you understand what I am trying to say reformedman1
Peace be with you always,
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You may not realize it but reformedman1 is banned. I discovered that on a post and so posted “in memorium” over one of reformedman1 posting concerning the Bible. I find it difficult to believe that there are people that doubt the history of what is true. This is one of the difficulties I have with those Protestants that deny the truth. The truth is that the OHCAC produced the Bible. Yes, Yes…God breathed, but he used a bunch of yokels travelling around at the time he was on this earth and someone put the book together.

I always refer to this passage for those Protestants that deny the truth…Romans 1.
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who **suppress the truth **in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
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So, you don’t have to like it, you don’t have to talk about it, you don’t have to teach it but if it is true you can’t suppress it. The reality is what it is. If the OHCAC did not produce the Bible…then how can we accept the Protocanonicals…because the history of the Protocanonicals are intimately entwined with the Bible produced by the OHCAC.

This is one thing I find distasteful about Protestant thought. You cannot do evil do produce good and saying something about how God put the Bible in our hands as not true is an inherent evil in my opinion.

If Jesus is Lord of all then Jesus is Lord of History and if we don’t know it we don’t know Jesus completely.
 
AdesteFideles said:
This comes partly from Matthew 18:18, and partly from imagination.

The argument is that what authority Jesus gave to St. Peter, was – and this verse is the “proof” – also extended to the rest of the Apostles. In this argument, the keys symbolize the binding and loosing, which is described in Matthew 18.
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How? The authority in Matt. 18:18 is quite clear Christ is speaking of binding and loosing Sin.

To bind and loose sin is given to all of the Apostles, We all agree on this. But where does Christ mention in that scripture the keys to the kingdom. They are 2 very different things.

If we did not agree that all could bind and loose sin the Priest could not forgive sin.
 
reformedman1 said:
well i would say that who the men were that recorded the word is not the main point. the bulk of the NT was accepted by christians by 100 AD. Jesus Christ tells you that Gods commands are infallible.** He tells you not to add or take away from his word or you will fall victim to plagues.** God is all powerful and is capable of having his will recorded. our whole history claims that the word of god is truth and not questionable. I know Catholics may feel that it is of their doing in cannonizing the bible but God is the author of the bible not the apostles or the CC.
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I believe you are speaking about the Book of Revelation. It can’t be the entire Bible since the Bible is not a single book but is many books.
 
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