Bible Alone?

[frangiuliano115]

That indeed is a very important question and yes, the answer is in Him.

The key to what is from Him, it that God Doeth as He Willeth and is explained within this passage from the Baha’i Writings; (Bold added by me)

"The virtues and attributes pertaining unto God are all evident and manifest, and have been mentioned and described in all the heavenly Books. Among them are trustworthiness, truthfulness, purity of heart while communing with God, forbearance, resignation to whatever the Almighty hath decreed, contentment with the things His Will hath provided, patience, nay, thankfulness in the midst of tribulation, and complete reliance, in all circumstances, upon Him. These rank, according to the estimate of God, among the highest and most laudable of all acts. All other acts are, and will ever remain, secondary and subordinate unto them….

The spirit that animateth the human heart is the knowledge of God, and its truest adorning is the recognition of the truth that ****“He doeth whatsoever He willeth, and ordaineth that which He pleaseth.” ****Its raiment is the fear of God, and its perfection steadfastness in His Faith. Thus God instructeth whosoever seeketh Him. He, verily, loveth the one that turneth towards Him. There is none other God but Him, the Forgiving, the Most Bountiful. All praise be to God, the Lord of all worlds". reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-134.html

God Bless and Regards Tony

Tony,

How is it that you understand me better than my Catholic brethren??

Maybe too many layers have been added between us and God?
Jesus made everything simple
We’ve made everything complicated

So complicated that we have trouble understanding our words to each other, as is evidenced by exchanges on these threads.

What more could we do other than to follow your first pp? If we have that, what else could be necessary?

Fran

 

[JustaServant]

Tony,

How is it that you understand me better than my Catholic brethren??

I have my own ideas on that.

 

[frangiuliano115]

I have my own ideas on that.

Yes. Well you do have interesting ideas.

I believe your ideas are also on a different thread to which I’ve replied.
As I’ve said, you’re a lucky fellow.

So no comment here. I only repeat: Your truth is your truth.

Read John 13:35

Fran

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Stick with the topic of the OP please

 

[JustaServant]

I mean, protestants might feel very free with scripture, but sometimes I feel like we’re afraid of it.

Fram

The Catholic Church put together Scripture. We read quite a bit of it at Mass and other times.
Who is ‘afraid’ of it?

 

[Michael68]

The current Catechism contains all the verses that you church has interpreted infallibly? Which paragraphs?

Why don’t you read it yourself

 

[SalusaSecondus]

Why don’t you read it yourself

I have, years ago when I converted to Catholicism. I don’t remember anywhere where it states this verse is infallibly interpreted by the church as this.

 

[JonNC]

=pablope;13469599]

And how does Scripture go about making the decision that a dogma, teachings, teachers are accountable to Scripture?

How would Scripture make that decision known?

Scripture provides the Church with teaching authority. Therefore, the Church uses scripture as the norm by which all other norms are normed, all doctrine,dogma, teachers and teachings are held accountable.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

J
But JonNC.

• The thread concerns the “Bible Alone”.
• My question (here) concerned eazyduzit’s quote of Pr.30:5,6 (as alleged support for “Bible Alone”).
• And I didn’t claim to “get universal ordinary and immediate jurisdiction over the entire Church on Earth” from Matthew 16 alone.

(That being said, I would be happy to participate in a thread concerning the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. I think it is a very interesting subject.)

You’re right. My response was a bit rhetorical. I apologize. I should have responded more directly.
Briefly stated, sola scriptura, as a practice, requires doctrine, dogma, teachers,and teachings. to be held accountable to scripture. It is, effectively, a hermeneutical principle, not a doctrine in and of itself. It is not an article of faith that binds the conscience of the believer. No Catholic, for example, is thought to be condemned because they reject this principle.
So, the claim that sola scriptura is self-refuting is false because sola scriptura does not apply to the principle, but instead to articles of faith: doctrines, dogmas, etc.

Jon

 

[guanophore]

Scripture provides the Church with teaching authority. Therefore, the Church uses scripture as the norm by which all other norms are normed, all doctrine,dogma, teachers and teachings are held accountable.

Jon

I think it was Christ who provided the Church with teaching authority. The Church used that authority to create, promulgate, and canonize the Scriptures.

The Scriptures are an essential norm for the doctrine of the faith, but it is not possible for them to be an authority, since the exercise of authority can only be done by persons, not texts, however Holy.

 

[Michael68]

I think it was Christ who provided the Church with teaching authority. The Church used that authority to create, promulgate, and canonize the Scriptures.

The Scriptures are an essential norm for the doctrine of the faith, but it is not possible for them to be an authority, since the exercise of authority can only be done by persons, not texts, however Holy.

I agree. Jesus Christ founded a Church not a book

 

[JonNC]

=guanophore;13471439]I think it was Christ who provided the Church with teaching authority. The Church used that authority to create, promulgate, and canonize the Scriptures.

Yes, guan. I mentioned that in an earlier post, that scripture simply reports to us this truth.
And while you are right, the fact that the largest part of scripture existed prior to Pentecost is also true.

The Scriptures are an essential norm for the doctrine of the faith, but it is not possible for them to be an authority, since the exercise of authority can only be done by persons, not texts, however Holy.

Then it is a matter of semantics. The FoC doesn’t use the term authority in this way. It says:

. We believe, teach, and confess that the sole rule and standard according to which all dogmas together with [all] teachers should be estimated and judged are the prophetic and apostolic Scriptures of the Old and of the New Testament alone, as it is written Ps. 119:105: Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path. And St. Paul: Though an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you, let him be accursed, Gal. 1:8.

Jon

 

[guanophore]

Yes, guan. I mentioned that in an earlier post, that scripture simply reports to us this truth.

You did. :yup:

The FoC doesn’t use the term authority in this way. It says:

. We believe, teach, and confess that the sole rule and standard according to which all dogmas together with [all] teachers should be estimated and judged are the prophetic and apostolic Scriptures of the Old and of the New Testament alone, as it is written Ps. 119:105: Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path. And St. Paul: Though an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you, let him be accursed, Gal. 1:8. :

Jon

In thinking back to the days when this was penned, I cannot help but believe that, had the leadership been more Christlike, their measurement by this standard would not have fallen so short, and the separation may never have occurred.

 

[JonNC]

In thinking back to the days when this was penned, I cannot help but believe that, had the leadership been more Christlike, their measurement by this standard would not have fallen so short, and the separation may never have occurred.

The leadership on both sides, I would suggest. Here’s praying the current leadership is far more Christlike, not merely in their opinion of each other, but also in their perception of the truth, guided by the Spirit.

Jon

 

[TonyBS]

I agree. Jesus Christ founded a Church not a book

I would say After Christ is His Word as recorded in the Bible. The Church is Built from those Words that have been recorded for all Humanity.

Without the words recorded in the Bible, how much more complex do you think it would be to explain the stance of the Church? Lets face it how much conflict have we had with recorded words, then how much more would there be without it!

Regards Tony

 

[guanophore]

The leadership on both sides, I would suggest. Here’s praying the current leadership is far more Christlike, not merely in their opinion of each other, but also in their perception of the truth, guided by the Spirit.

Jon

I think our prayers are in the process of being answered, Jon. We have seen so much conciliation occuring with the last two Popes, I believe we have reason for hopeful expectation.

The time is coming, and now is, when Christians need to unite around our agreements.

 

[Picky_Picky]

I think our prayers are in the process of being answered, Jon. We have seen so much conciliation occuring with the last two Popes, I believe we have reason for hopeful expectation.

The time is coming, and now is, when Christians need to unite around our agreements.

Is this a hopeful sign?

archbishopcranmer.com/popes-preacher-lauds-the-great-theological-and-spiritual-enrichment-of-the-reformation/

 

[TonyBS]

I think our prayers are in the process of being answered, Jon. We have seen so much conciliation occuring with the last two Popes, I believe we have reason for hopeful expectation.

The time is coming, and now is, when Christians need to unite around our agreements.

Unity is the key, it might have to be considered that The Unity required is a bigger picture that embraces the world!

Regards Tony

 

[JonNC]

Is this a hopeful sign?

archbishopcranmer.com/popes-preacher-lauds-the-great-theological-and-spiritual-enrichment-of-the-reformation/

Justification by faith, for example, ought to be preached by the whole Church — and with more vigour than ever. Not in opposition to good works – the issue is already settled – but rather in opposition to the claim of people today that they can save themselves thanks to their science, technology or their man – made spirituality, without the need for a redeemer coming from outside humanity. Self-justification! I am convinced that if they were alive today this is the way Martin Luther and Thomas Cranmer would preach justification through faith!

• Fr Raniero Cantalamessa, Preacher to the Papal Household

Wow!!

Jon

 

[Michael68]

I would say After Christ is His Word as recorded in the Bible. The Church is Built from those Words that have been recorded for all Humanity.

Without the words recorded in the Bible, how much more complex do you think it would be to explain the stance of the Church? Lets face it how much conflict have we had with recorded words, then how much more would there be without it!

Regards Tony

How did the first Christians get along without a bible?