Bible and Catholic Catechism

[uglygal]

I have heard it said that the Bible and the Catechism is of equal import to Catholics. I also know from experience that when asking about catholicism I am told “read the catechism” as opposed to “read the Bible”

The Catholic Catechism was first compiled in 1566 and later re-written in the Vatican II period (assuming my research is correct). This is some 1500 (1566) years after Jesus lived. Of contextual interest, the reformation and its activities began in 1517, therefore it appears the catechism was reactionary.

My question is - What is, if any, the import or consequence of such a substantial time difference between the faiths origin and the compilation of the catechism and its context?

Why is the Bible and catechism of “equal” authority to catholics?

I would appreciate both catholic and non-catholic (other christian denominations) perspectives/answers.

You must excuse all my questions as of late but I am investigating. Thankyou in advance for your time and (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[allofgrace]

I have heard it said that the Bible and the Catechism is of equal import to Catholics. I also know from experience that when asking about catholicism I am told “read the catechism” as opposed to “read the Bible”

Why is the Bible and catechism of “equal” authority to catholics? QUOTE]

Hi,
The Catechism is not of equal importance to the Bible in Catholicism. The Catechism is given as a guide because in the Catholic faith there is not “private interpretation” but we go by Apostolic tradition. Peter states very clearly in his epistle that “no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation.” Martin Luther and the other “reformers” especially Carlstadt introduced “private interpretation” as a tenet of the Protestant belief system even though the Bible forbids it. They introduced (16th Century) “sola scriptura - the Bible ALONE” as a kingpin of Protestantism. This is why we have over 33,000 Protestant denominations and sects - because everyone takes the Bible and forms their own belief system - this is why we find new “churches” starting all the time. Jesus started ONE CHURCH with HIS TRUTH being taught always and everywhere. The Catechism simply holds the line on the faith and it is there for all to see. It is a GUIDELINE not equal to the Bible.

 

[ArAnMike]

The beliefs (doctrines and dogmas) of the Catholic Church can be found in three places: Scared Scriptures, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterial Teaching. Magisterial Teaching is the teaching of the bishops in communion with the Pope. These teachings are found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. This would be similar to teachings of other protestant denominations, except we have put it in writing. Also the early Church held councils when any teachings other than the one Jesus gave was present, for example, Gnosticism. I would encourage you to investigate how and who decided what books belong in the Bible. No where in the Bible does it say which ones are authoritative.

 

[allofgrace]

I have heard it said that the Bible and the Catechism is of equal import to Catholics. I also know from experience that when asking about catholicism I am told “read the catechism” as opposed to “read the Bible”

The Catholic Catechism was first compiled in 1566 and later re-written in the Vatican II period (assuming my research is correct). This is some 1500 (1566) years after Jesus lived. Of contextual interest, the reformation and its activities began in 1517, therefore it appears the catechism was reactionary.

My question is - What is, if any, the import or consequence of such a substantial time difference between the faiths origin and the compilation of the catechism and its context?

When you are asking about Protestant faiths, what are you told to do? When you are asking about Catholicism, you can find the teaching of the Church in the Catechism. The Catechism quotes the Bible to show where our doctrines fit there but the doctrines themselves are unchangeable. Some practices have changed but those are not Christ’s doctrines.

The Catechism that was compiled in 1566 was compiled to set the record straight as to what was and was not Catholic teaching following the Council of Trent which was “the counter reformation.” It was a time of great confusion. Luther published his own catechism teaching things that were novelties and were opposed to the teaching of THE CHURCH. You might want to read the Documents of the Council of Trent which set the record straight. The Catechism of the Council of Trent was not the first catechism however.

From the earliest days of the Church when a person was asking to become a Christian and come into the Church, they were given instruction for a period of time, up to three years. This was all catechesis because it matters greatly what a Christian believes. The “loose canons” that diverted from Apostolic teaching were not called another “church;” they were called heretics and were not allowed to teach in the Church. From the time of the Reformation, those who teach their own doctrines are popularly called “churches” and have foisted on the world an apostate religion - or more clearly many apostate religions. They have a bit of truth in them all but they are not the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. They are sects “with itching ears heaping to themselves teachers” telling them what they want to hear and not tied to GOD’S TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT GOD’S TRUTH.

 

[Jlcastagna]

allofgrace and ArAnMike have pointed you in the right direction here uglygal but as a side note I would add the Didache could probably be considered the first Catechism and it existed about 300 years before the Bible.

May God bless and protect us,
JLC

 

[ralphinal]

Don’t forget that it is simply quicker and easier to find the teachings and corresponding Bible verses in the Catechism. Indexes are a wonderful thing!

 

[peary]

I have heard it said that the Bible and the Catechism is of equal import to Catholics. I also know from experience that when asking about catholicism I am told “read the catechism” as opposed to “read the Bible”

**The Catechism explains how the Bible is incorporated into the life of the Church and its members. **

The Catholic Catechism was first compiled in 1566 and later re-written in the Vatican II period (assuming my research is correct). This is some 1500 (1566) years after Jesus lived. Of contextual interest, the reformation and its activities began in 1517, therefore it appears the catechism was reactionary.

It was not reactionary - it was a direct response to protestant nonsense.

My question is - What is, if any, the import or consequence of such a substantial time difference between the faiths origin and the compilation of the catechism and its context?
Catechisms may be rewritten or updated, but the doctrines have always remained the same.

Why is the Bible and catechism of “equal” authority to catholics?

***The Catechism, again, explains the Bible in the context of a Christian life. ***

 

[lak611]

The beliefs (doctrines and dogmas) of the Catholic Church can be found in three places: Scared Scriptures, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterial Teaching. Magisterial Teaching is the teaching of the bishops in communion with the Pope. These teachings are found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church. This would be similar to teachings of other protestant denominations, except we have put it in writing.

The OP mentioned something about Protestants and catechisms. Many of the Protestant denominations have catechisms too. For instance, the Lutherans do.

Also the early Church held councils when any teachings other than the one Jesus gave was present, for example, Gnosticism. I would encourage you to investigate how and who decided what books belong in the Bible. No where in the Bible does it say which ones are authoritative.

Here’s a great free MP3 that explains how we got the Bible.

 

[AllSaints1631]

When you are asking about Protestant faiths, what are you told to do? When you are asking about Catholicism, you can find the teaching of the Church in the Catechism. The Catechism quotes the Bible to show where our doctrines fit there but the doctrines themselves are unchangeable. Some practices have changed but those are not Christ’s doctrines.

The Catechism that was compiled in 1566 was compiled to set the record straight as to what was and was not Catholic teaching following the Council of Trent which was “the counter reformation.” It was a time of great confusion. Luther published his own catechism teaching things that were novelties and were opposed to the teaching of THE CHURCH. You might want to read the Documents of the Council of Trent which set the record straight. The Catechism of the Council of Trent was not the first catechism however.

From the earliest days of the Church when a person was asking to become a Christian and come into the Church, they were given instruction for a period of time, up to three years. This was all catechesis because it matters greatly what a Christian believes. The “loose canons” that diverted from Apostolic teaching were not called another “church;” they were called heretics and were not allowed to teach in the Church. From the time of the Reformation, those who teach their own doctrines are popularly called “churches” and have foisted on the world an apostate religion - or more clearly many apostate religions. They have a bit of truth in them all but they are not the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. They are sects “with itching ears heaping to themselves teachers” telling them what they want to hear and not tied to GOD’S TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT GOD’S TRUTH.

As a Catholic I have never believed that the Bible should not be open to interpretation to each individual. This is like saying that individuals cannot possibly be led by the Holy Spirit as the Magisterium was and is. I don’t believe it.

 

[Freshman88]

As a Catholic I have never believed that the Bible should not be open to interpretation to each individual. This is like saying that individuals cannot possibly be led by the Holy Spirit as the Magisterium was and is. I don’t believe it.

Yes, but what if your personal “interpretation” contradicts that of the Magisterium and Holy Tradition?

The faith of the Magisterium is the faith of the apostles, to interpret as the Magisterium does is to interpret as the apostles had.

The Holy Spirit guides one to the exact same teachings as Holy Mother Church, if it does not, it is not the Holy Spirit.

So you can see your problem… interpret on your own, but make sure it is of the Holy Spirit by comparing it to the Church.

Recall, Extra Ecclesium Nulla Salus.

 

[1ke]

I have heard it said that the Bible and the Catechism is of equal import to Catholics. I also know from experience that when asking about catholicism I am told “read the catechism” as opposed to “read the Bible”

The catechism is merely a document containing a summary of Church teaching. The word “catechism” is Greek and has been used since ancient times to refer to a systematic teaching of the faith. The terms catechize (to teach/instruct), catechist (one who teaches/instructs), catechumen (one who is instructed) are all derived from the term catechism.

The Catholic Catechism was first compiled in 1566 and later re-written in the Vatican II period (assuming my research is correct). This is some 1500 (1566) years after Jesus lived. Of contextual interest, the reformation and its activities began in 1517, therefore it appears the catechism was reactionary.

You are mistaken. The first extra-biblical catechism (that we know of) was the Didache written in the first century. Through the ages there have been many catechisms created by those who desired to teach the faith to others.

My question is - What is, if any, the import or consequence of such a substantial time difference between the faiths origin and the compilation of the catechism and its context?

You are under the mistaken impression that the first catechism-- teaching document-- was written in the 1500s. This is not so.

Why is the Bible and catechism of “equal” authority to catholics?

They are not.

However, Scripture and Tradition are both authoritative. The catechism is merely a summary, or synthesis, of the authoritative doctrine. So, while it is not itself of equal authority the doctrines that it summarizes are.

 

[AllSaints1631]

Yes, but what if your personal “interpretation” contradicts that of the Magisterium and Holy Tradition?

 

[peary]

AllSaints1631:
The only thing for certain in the Church is that, when the Pope together with all the bishops of the world (Teaching Magesterium) teach on a matter of morals or a matter of Faith and Dogma, the Church, protected by the Holy Spirit, speaks infallibly. That is the ONLY time one can actually be assured that the Church speaks from the Holy Spirit. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. At least, that’s my humble opinion.

 

[Freshman88]

ah, now I can understand your position allsaints…

But if not Rome… then who?

You could be wandering outside the realm of Apostolic Orthodox Christianity, which comes with a wide variety of different beliefs. The most hurtful being a denial of essential sacrements, such as the real presence, or reservations about giving our r Lady her proper due.

You can’t have the sacrements without proper holy orders, and you can’t have proper holy orders without proper Apostolic Successios.

Just be careful brother, a world without the sacraments would be a scary one.

 

[patrick457]

The Catholic Catechism was first compiled in 1566 and later re-written in the Vatican II period (assuming my research is correct). This is some 1500 (1566) years after Jesus lived. Of contextual interest, the reformation and its activities began in 1517, therefore it appears the catechism was reactionary.

Actually, as the others pointed out the Didache, A treatise containing instructions for various Christian communities written between the 1st-3rd Century (many lean toward the 100-120 AD date).

The Roman Catechism (first published in 1566) came about at a time when the Protestants with their tracts and Catechisms was leading many away from the Church. In order to combat this, the Council of Trent commissioned the publishing of this Catechism, which is more intended for the clergy than the laity.

The present Catechism (known as the Catechism of the Catholic Church or CCC) was not published during the Vatican II period, as you state but was first published in French in 1992 under the authority of the then-Pope John Paul II, with the Latin version (the official text of reference) released in 1997. The French is then amended to conform to the Latin.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I have heard it said that the Bible and the Catechism is of equal import to Catholics. I also know from experience that when asking about catholicism I am told “read the catechism” as opposed to “read the Bible”

The Catholic Catechism was first compiled in 1566 and later re-written in the Vatican II period (assuming my research is correct). This is some 1500 (1566) years after Jesus lived. Of contextual interest, the reformation and its activities began in 1517, therefore it appears the catechism was reactionary.

My question is - What is, if any, the import or consequence of such a substantial time difference between the faiths origin and the compilation of the catechism and its context?

Why is the Bible and catechism of “equal” authority to catholics?

I would appreciate both catholic and non-catholic (other christian denominations) perspectives/answers.

You must excuse all my questions as of late but I am investigating. Thankyou in advance for your time and (name removed by moderator)ut.

Welcome to the forum.

Catholics believe that Divine Revelation comes from God, and that the revelation of God is contained in three sources: Sacred Scripture (aka The Bible), Sacred Tradition (the oral teachings of the apostles that were not written down in the Bible) and the Magesterium, (the official teachings of the Church.)

Scripture is indeed important to Catholics. We read from the Bible at every Mass, but we never read from the Catechism during Mass. However, the Bible is not really even a book, but a collection of books, with many different human authors and literary styles and forms. Hence, it is not the best place to find a concise "definition "of sorts for Catholic teachings. Also, Catholics do not believe that the Bible is the only source of Divine Revelation, not all Catholic beliefs are found explicitly in Scripture.

The Catechism was designed to be, in a sense, a “dictionary” of Catholic teachings. Any person, Catholic or non-Catholic, who wishes to know what the Catholic Church teaches on a given subject simply has to pick up the Catechism and they can know exactly what the Catholic Church teaches about that given topic. When a Catholic tells a person to use the Catechism to learn about Catholic doctrine, it is because the Catechism was designed to be a very “user friendly” guide to what the Catholic Church teaches and why.

 

[AllSaints1631]

ah, now I can understand your position allsaints…

But if not Rome… then who?

You could be wandering outside the realm of Apostolic Orthodox Christianity, which comes with a wide variety of different beliefs. The most hurtful being a denial of essential sacrements, such as the real presence, or reservations about giving our r Lady her proper due.

You can’t have the sacrements without proper holy orders, and you can’t have proper holy orders without proper Apostolic Successios.

Just be careful brother, a world without the sacraments would be a scary one.

I’m not suggesting scrapping the sacrements if that’s what you may be thinking, but just for the record, I believe that more than just Catholicism and Orthodoxy have Apostolic Succession.

 

[Gamera]

I have heard it said that the Bible and the Catechism is of equal import to Catholics. I also know from experience that when asking about catholicism I am told “read the catechism” as opposed to “read the Bible”

The Catholic Catechism was first compiled in 1566 and later re-written in the Vatican II period (assuming my research is correct). This is some 1500 (1566) years after Jesus lived. Of contextual interest, the reformation and its activities began in 1517, therefore it appears the catechism was reactionary.

My question is - What is, if any, the import or consequence of such a substantial time difference between the faiths origin and the compilation of the catechism and its context?

Why is the Bible and catechism of “equal” authority to catholics?

I would appreciate both catholic and non-catholic (other christian denominations) perspectives/answers.

You must excuse all my questions as of late but I am investigating. Thankyou in advance for your time and (name removed by moderator)ut.

Catholics believe that God’s word (His revelation to humanity) consists of two things: (1) Scripture, and (2) the preaching of the Apostles (sometimes called Apostolic Tradition or Sacred Tradition). Nothing else.

Church teaching isn’t God’s word. It is man’s word. God protects the Church from error but that isn’t the same as inspiring the Church what to say. Even when the Church makes an infallible declaration, it’s still man’s word, it’s just kept from error by the Holy Spirit — the Holy Spirit doesn’t tell the Church what to say, the Holy Spirit just prevents error from being taught.

The Catholic view, therefore, is that the Bible is God’s word while church teaching is man’s word. Both the Bible and the Catechism are trustworthy and correct, but the Bible is superior because it is God’s word – the Bible is inspired (“God-breathed”) and the Catechism isn’t.

BTW, there have been many Catholic Catechisms through the centuries, not just two. Somewhere there’s a list of them – I’ll try to find it.

 

[DL82]

The Catechism is firmly grounded in the Bible, the Bible is quoted and paraphrased extensively throughout the Catechism. The other Church documents (encyclicals and councils, prayers and works of the Doctors of the Church) which are referenced in the Catechism are themselves grounded in the words of the Bible.

I began reading the Catechism looking for something unbiblical so that I could walk away, but the deeper I searched, the more biblical the Church’s teachings showed themselves to be.

 

[kalt]

I have heard it said that the Bible and the Catechism is of equal import to Catholics. I also know from experience that when asking about catholicism I am told “read the catechism” as opposed to “read the Bible”

The Catholic Catechism was first compiled in 1566 and later re-written in the Vatican II period (assuming my research is correct). This is some 1500 (1566) years after Jesus lived. Of contextual interest, the reformation and its activities began in 1517, therefore it appears the catechism was reactionary.

My question is - What is, if any, the import or consequence of such a substantial time difference between the faiths origin and the compilation of the catechism and its context?

Why is the Bible and catechism of “equal” authority to catholics?

I would appreciate both catholic and non-catholic (other christian denominations) perspectives/answers.

You must excuse all my questions as of late but I am investigating. Thankyou in advance for your time and (name removed by moderator)ut.

"Why is the Bible and catechism of “equal” authority to catholics? "

Catholics are obliged to accept the doctrines of the faith. Doctrines are explained in the Catechism, and the teaching of the Catholic Church is authoritative.

We don’t believe that the CCC is the word of God, though. It’s not scripture, though it does quote the Bible.

I’m not sure why non-Catholics beleive that the Bible is the only authoritative source, when the Bible doesn’t say so. However, they do seem to believe that the Catholic Church is uniquely unable to interpret the Bible, while they, the Protestants, may expound on it (the Bible) at length and with supreme authority–all the while claiming that the Bible (not their interpretation,mind you) is the only authoritative place to learn our faith.

I think the better question is, “Why do Protestants interpret scripture a authority, when they say that the Bible is the only authority?”

While were asking, we can ask them how, if the Bible is the only authority, they can know that the Catholic Church is wrong about Tradition, when the Bible, the only authority, written and compiled after Tradition was already in full swing, doesn’t mention abandoning Tradition.

Catholics believe in authority. Protestants obviously don’t. They deny even the Bible when it comes to authority and Tradition.