Bible and Divorce?

[Joko2599]

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+24&version=NASB
biblehub.com/deuteronomy/24-1.htm

I found an interesting bible verse that seems to allow people to enter into a divorce. This is very interesting, as I know that Catholic Church prohibits the practice. So what is going on here?

 

[EasterJoy]

Our Lord addressed the prescription in Mosaic law that allowed divorce:

*Some Pharisees approached him, and tested him, saying, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any cause whatever?”

He said in reply, “Have you not read that from the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate.”

They said to him, “Then why did Moses command that the man give the woman a bill of divorce and dismiss [her]?”

He said to them, “Because of the hardness of your hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery.” *Matt. 19:3-9

 

[Todd977]

As I see it, mankind had fallen so far into moral chaos that God decided it would be best to bring them back to a high morality in two progressive stages. The first and intermediate stage was the good but imperfect Law of Moses for the Jews, which mostly aimed at correcting external behavior. Then, after mankind had been exposed to the Law of Moses for a sufficient amount of time through the Jews, he revealed to mankind the second and final stage, the perfect Law of Christ, which also aimed at correcting interior dispositions. For instance, the Law of Moses prohibited killing; the Law of Christ not only prohibits killing but even prohibits anger. You can read about some of the other differences between the Law of Moses and the Law of Christ in Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount, in Matthew, chapters 5-7, especially Matthew 5:17-48. With respect to divorce, under the imperfect Law of Moses, a marriage bond could be dissolved in an orderly way by giving a writ of divorce; under the perfect Law of Christ a (valid, consummated, Christian) marriage bond cannot be dissolved by divorce.

For a serious reason, such as physical abuse or adultery, Christian spouses may separate from one another and obtain a civil divorce for the equitable distribution of community property, to severe their legal responsibilities for one another, set alimony and child support and visitation schedules, etc., but as far as God and the Church are concerned a civil divorce does not dissolve the divine marriage bond between two Christians. Consequently, civilly-divorced Christians are not free to remarry during their spouse’s lifetime and a civilly-divorced Christian who does remarry during their spouse’s lifetime commits adultery.

 

[glendab]

Hello Joko.

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy+24&version=NASB
biblehub.com/deuteronomy/24-1.htm

I found an interesting bible verse that seems to allow people to enter into a divorce. This is very interesting, as I know that Catholic Church prohibits the practice. So what is going on here?

Might help if you look at Jesus’ words as a model for all, but not an absolute rule. It tells of the seriousness the marital vows. You take them intending to be married till death. That is God’s will for men and women. But notice God also addresses our fallen human nature in those few words: " the hardness of your hearts." This is a direct result of sin and the sins in marriage are what does it. He also addresses the mis-use of the ability to divorce one woman and marry another, but since God can read hearts and knows the motives behind all actions, He brings to mind those who simply use divorce to change sexual partners. They are in their hearts adulterers.

Divorce isn’t forbidden in Catholicism as some try to say. There are still sinners among us and God knows this. His will is that people enter marriage fully prepared to live it for a lifetime. That is called divorce prevention. Keep this in mind as well: Jesus elevated married life beyond the OT covenant and made it a Sacrament. That placed God directly in the marital relationship, not an outside observer. There are three parties to marriage in the Church, husband, wife and the Holy Spirit. Consider Him first in all your ways and you won’t go wrong.

Glenda

 

[EasterJoy]

Hello Joko.

Might help if you look at Jesus’ words as a model for all, but not an absolute rule. It tells of the seriousness the marital vows. You take them intending to be married till death. That is God’s will for men and women. But notice God also addresses our fallen human nature in those few words: " the hardness of your hearts." This is a direct result of sin and the sins in marriage are what does it. He also addresses the mis-use of the ability to divorce one woman and marry another, but since God can read hearts and knows the motives behind all actions, He brings to mind those who simply use divorce to change sexual partners. They are in their hearts adulterers.

Divorce isn’t forbidden in Catholicism as some try to say. There are still sinners among us and God knows this. His will is that people enter marriage fully prepared to live it for a lifetime. That is called divorce prevention. Keep this in mind as well: Jesus elevated married life beyond the OT covenant and made it a Sacrament. That placed God directly in the marital relationship, not an outside observer. There are three parties to marriage in the Church, husband, wife and the Holy Spirit. Consider Him first in all your ways and you won’t go wrong.

Glenda

This deserves some clarification.

The Church does not hold that a Christian marriage can be dissolved. The Church permits the use of what is called a divorce under civil law in order that spouses whose situation allows a separation of the conjugal life with the bond remaining can divide their assets and earning potential justly and see to the support and education of their children fairly. This is because civil laws covering separation, divorce, and annulment do not coincide with the Church’s understanding of these processes, not because the divorce of two Christians is sometimes OK.

Our Lord did not say that someone who divorces their spouse and marries another commits adultery in his or her heart. He called it adultery, period, without qualification. That is what it is. As for the “hardness of heart” part–well of course mortal sin is committed out of hardness of heart! How else is mortal sin ever committed, if not out of hardness of heart? Does that mean that a mortal sin is not a mortal sin? Of course not!So while it is not ours to impute culpability, we are bound to recognize the seriousness of this objectively-wrong course of action of treating civil divorce as if it could dissolve a valid marriage. It cannot. Period.

 

[glendab]

Hello EasterJoy.

…, we are bound to recognize the seriousness of this objectively-wrong course of action of treating civil divorce as if it could dissolve a valid marriage. It cannot. Period.

I admire your zeal, however in my statement I never said what you seem to see in my statement, that namely a civil divorce has any baring on marriage. I didn’t even mention civil divorce. It is true that the Church can permit divorce. It strives to mend broken marriages, but to imply in anyway that Christians can never divorce is wrong. Please re-read what I wrote and save the judgments for the proper discussions.

Glenda

 

[EasterJoy]

Hello EasterJoy.

I admire your zeal, however in my statement I never said what you seem to see in my statement, that namely a civil divorce has any bearing on marriage. I didn’t even mention civil divorce. It is true that the Church can permit divorce. It strives to mend broken marriages, but to imply in anyway that Christians can never divorce is wrong. Please re-read what I wrote and save the judgments for the proper discussions.

Glenda

Notice: I said clarification, not correction. When two Christians have validly ratified and consummated their marriage to each other, not even the Church can dissolve their union.

The clarification is on two points:

1. A civil divorce “does not have any bearing” in the sense of actually dissolving a marriage: Yes, true. To clarify what that means, though: it does not mean that Catholics are free to obtain a civil divorce without a legitimate cause that excuses them from their duty to maintain the common conjugal life. I am not saying you were saying anything different. I am saying that no one should incorrectly take you to mean that the Church teaches there isn’t any duty to stay together as long as the two Christians do not re-marry without a finding by the Church that the marriage was invalid. As canon law puts it:
   ***Can. 1151 *Spouses have the duty and right to preserve conjugal living unless a legitimate cause excuses them.
2. By “Church permits the use of what is called a divorce under civil law,” I mean that there are times when a marriage that is objectively invalid cannot practically use civil law to reach a finding of nullity under civil law. (Civil law does grant decrees of nullity, too, after all, when a marriage does not meet the civil criteria for legal validity.) The couple may be left to obtain a divorce under civil law and then a decree of nullity according to Church law, because a civil decree of nullity is practically impossible (or too difficult) for that couple to obtain. In other cases, the couple cannot reach a fair situation with regards to their life in separation with the bond remaining without recourse to civil divorce. I think this is the situation you mean: that is, they have a civil divorce, but that has no bearing on whether they are still actually joined by the bonds of marriage. They have gone to civil court to obtain a fair situation with regards to civil law, but they are still married in the eyes of God. Provided that they have a legitimate cause that excuses them from the common conjugal life and provided that civil divorce is necessary to reach a just situation with regards to civil law, then yes, the Church permits a civil divorce and a faithful Catholic does not have a moral duty to avoid civil divorce in that situation.

There are also marriages involving non-Christians that might sometimes be liable to be dissolved, but this is not automatic, nor are marriages between non-Christians automatically held to be invalid.

 

[glendab]

Hello Easterjoy.

Notice: I said clarification, not correction. When two Christians have validly ratified and consummated their marriage to each other, not even the Church can dissolve their union .

It seems your “clarification” needs correction. ** The truth is the Sacrament of Matrimony can be dissolved and is dissolved by the Church**. It has been and it will be again in the future. This is a fact. Wishing it away will not take it away. Some times it takes the action of the Holy See to do this, that is how far some actually have to go to get their Sacrament annulled. (Whatever you bind on earth is bound in Heaven and** whatever you loose on earth is loosed in Heaven**…") It does happen.

However, this doesn’t happen often nor is it meant to happen often, but as Jesus said, “because of the hardness of your hearts…” it will continue to happen. It is misleading to tell folks that the Church cannot dissolve the union between two persons who have entered into a valid Sacramental marriage and have decided to end it. It can be annulled. It is rare and the process is slow and vexing but it does happen. The Church doesn’t forbid divorce. Nor can the Church force anyone to stay married which is what forbidding divorce would do. It simply discourages it and lets people know what is required of them and should be expected in Christian marriages. It is, in fact, God’s will that the two parties to marriage prepare long before the wedding and this preparation begins in childhood when the children observe their own parent’s marriage and when they get told the truth about the Sacrament, “When you grow up, you’ll fall in love and get married and have children and live happily ever after,” etc. People who don’t prepare for the feast of the marital life have no clue how to live that marital life and the Church does help those who need to to prepare for it. It also lays down rules for folks who are trying to get married, all the do’s and don’t’s and this isn’t about the types of floral arrangements to have in the Church or how much to pay the photographer. People need to know this stuff before they even start dating.

Oh well, I’ve said too much again. Forgive me Easter Joy. But guess what? The Church doesn’t forbid divorce and does annul the Sacrament even when it is sometimes a valid Sacrament. It is one of life’s little tragedies. It happens.

Glenda

 

[His_helpmeet]

Hello Easterjoy.

It seems your “clarification” needs correction. ** The truth is the Sacrament of Matrimony can be dissolved and is dissolved by the Church**. It has been and it will be again in the future. This is a fact. Wishing it away will not take it away. Some times it takes the action of the Holy See to do this, that is how far some actually have to go to get their Sacrament annulled. (Whatever you bind on earth is bound in Heaven and** whatever you loose on earth is loosed in Heaven**…") It does happen.

However, this doesn’t happen often nor is it meant to happen often, but as Jesus said, “because of the hardness of your hearts…” it will continue to happen. It is misleading to tell folks that the Church cannot dissolve the union between two persons who have entered into a valid Sacramental marriage and have decided to end it. It can be annulled. It is rare and the process is slow and vexing but it does happen. The Church doesn’t forbid divorce. Nor can the Church force anyone to stay married which is what forbidding divorce would do. It simply discourages it and lets people know what is required of them and should be expected in Christian marriages. It is, in fact, God’s will that the two parties to marriage prepare long before the wedding and this preparation begins in childhood when the children observe their own parent’s marriage and when they get told the truth about the Sacrament, “When you grow up, you’ll fall in love and get married and have children and live happily ever after,” etc. People who don’t prepare for the feast of the marital life have no clue how to live that marital life and the Church does help those who need to to prepare for it. It also lays down rules for folks who are trying to get married, all the do’s and don’t’s and this isn’t about the types of floral arrangements to have in the Church or how much to pay the photographer. People need to know this stuff before they even start dating.

Oh well, I’ve said too much again. Forgive me Easter Joy. But guess what? The Church doesn’t forbid divorce and does annul the Sacrament even when it is sometimes a valid Sacrament. It is one of life’s little tragedies. It happens.

Glenda

The Church cannot “dissolve” the consummated marriage of two baptized people. Rather, it can declare that their marriage was not valid in the first place. That’s what a declaration of nullity is - a statement by the Church that there was no marriage covenant to begin with. If one or both spouses are not baptized, the Church can dissolve the marriage under specific circumstances via the Petrine and Pauline privileges. However, this is the dissolution of a valid natural marriage. A sacramental marriage can never be “ended”, it can only be stated not to have been valid in the first place. In other words, the Church is not ending the marriage, but rather stating that it did not exist to begin with.

My DH went through the nullity process. (His ex told him, and verified to a witness that she had said this, that marriage was glorified common-law with ceremonial benefits and the vows she took were just symbolic and didn’t really mean anything. They also only really got married because she was pregnant and it was the only way DH could stay in the country.) Based on what he encountered, I think it’s highly unlikely that declarations of nullity would be given when they should not be - unless there was an outside influence on the tribunal (ex. the people in question were wealthy and/or had a lot of pull). I used to think that the Church probably gave declarations of nullity too frequently. However, I suspect (though I’m not sure) that the primary reasons we are seeing more nullity cases are the marriage of Catholics to non-Catholics, the conversion of people to Catholicism (if you’re divorced and remarried and you want to become Catholic, you need a declaration of nullity) and a number of poorly catechized Catholics. This would seem to suggest that people fundamentally don’t understand what marriage is about or what the Church’s requirements for marriage are, either because they were not raised in the faith or because they were poorly catechized and/or lapsed.

 

[EasterJoy]

Hello Easterjoy.

It seems your “clarification” needs correction. ** The truth is the Sacrament of Matrimony can be dissolved and is dissolved by the Church**. It has been and it will be again in the future. This is a fact. Wishing it away will not take it away. Some times it takes the action of the Holy See to do this, that is how far some actually have to go to get their Sacrament annulled. (Whatever you bind on earth is bound in Heaven and** whatever you loose on earth is loosed in Heaven**…") It does happen.

However, this doesn’t happen often nor is it meant to happen often, but as Jesus said, “because of the hardness of your hearts…” it will continue to happen. It is misleading to tell folks that the Church cannot dissolve the union between two persons who have entered into a valid Sacramental marriage and have decided to end it. It can be annulled. It is rare and the process is slow and vexing but it does happen. The Church doesn’t forbid divorce. Nor can the Church force anyone to stay married which is what forbidding divorce would do. It simply discourages it and lets people know what is required of them and should be expected in Christian marriages. It is, in fact, God’s will that the two parties to marriage prepare long before the wedding and this preparation begins in childhood when the children observe their own parent’s marriage and when they get told the truth about the Sacrament, “When you grow up, you’ll fall in love and get married and have children and live happily ever after,” etc. People who don’t prepare for the feast of the marital life have no clue how to live that marital life and the Church does help those who need to to prepare for it. It also lays down rules for folks who are trying to get married, all the do’s and don’t’s and this isn’t about the types of floral arrangements to have in the Church or how much to pay the photographer. People need to know this stuff before they even start dating.

Oh well, I’ve said too much again. Forgive me Easter Joy. But guess what? The Church doesn’t forbid divorce and does annul the Sacrament even when it is sometimes a valid Sacrament. It is one of life’s little tragedies. It happens.

Glenda

*Can. 1055 §1. The matrimonial covenant, by which a man and a woman establish between themselves a partnership of the whole of life and which is ordered by its nature to the good of the spouses and the procreation and education of offspring, has been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament between the baptized.

§2. For this reason, a valid matrimonial contract cannot exist between the baptized without it being by that fact a sacrament.

Can. 1056 The essential properties of marriage are unity and indissolubility, which in Christian marriage obtain a special firmness by reason of the sacrament.

Can. 1141 A marriage that is ratum et consummatum can be dissolved by no human power and by no cause, except death.*

 

[EasterJoy]

It seems your “clarification” needs correction. ** The truth is the Sacrament of Matrimony can be dissolved and is dissolved by the Church**. …guess what? The Church doesn’t forbid divorce and does annul the Sacrament even when it is sometimes a valid Sacrament. It is one of life’s little tragedies. It happens.

Glenda

The Church sometimes permits Catholics to obtain civil divorce in good conscience for compelling legal reasons, but holds that civil divorce does not affect the marriage bond itself.

When the Church makes a finding of nullity, that is a finding that an attempt at marriage inherently lacked the elements needed for validity–that is, even if entered into in good faith, something necessary for marriage was always lacking, from the start. This is not dissolving a marriage. That is a finding that the marriage was null–not there. Again: even civil law can make a finding of nullity, a finding that an attempted marriage did not meet the requirements necessary for it to meet the definition of a marriage.

For instance, in the State of Oregon, a marriage in which it is found that the spouses are first cousins or closer relatives or that one or both spouses were already married when the marriage in question was contracted is void. That finding is a civil annulment. The marriage is found to have not existed. That does not mean that a couple who applied for marriage benefits in Oregon because they did not know when they made their vows that they were first cousins would be liable for fraud. It is possible to exchange vows in good faith and yet not be married, even in civil law. It is not the same as getting a divorce.