Bible and Incest

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CHRISTINE77 said:
I dig your explanations - very interesting, and unusual! How many “dead Christs” are there in the Old Testament?
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Well, here’s another: Jonah!!! Jonah sleeping on his ship, Jonah 1:5. When Jonah is afterwards cast into the Sea, that’s Christ “descending into Hell,” at the time of his death, as the Apostle’s Creed puts it. When the fish pits him out on the beach, that’s the Resurrection.
 
Peter_Dawson said:
This is another one he would quote, to attack Catholicism.
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And I’ve got no problem with that. He can attack Catholicism all he wants. People attack God for being God. Who’s problem is that?

I don’t think you should water down the truth simply so someone else can accept it.
 
Peter_Dawson said:
Well, here’s another: Jonah!!! Jonah sleeping on his ship, Jonah 1:5. When Jonah is afterwards cast into the Sea, that’s Christ “descending into Hell,” at the time of his death, as the Apostle’s Creed puts it. When the fish pits him out on the beach, that’s the Resurrection.
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I think you are right about this one.

“An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth” (Mt 12:40)
 
Peter_Dawson said:
Well, here’s another: Jonah!!! Jonah sleeping on his ship, Jonah 1:5. When Jonah is afterwards cast into the Sea, that’s Christ “descending into Hell,” at the time of his death, as the Apostle’s Creed puts it. When the fish pits him out on the beach, that’s the Resurrection.
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That is about the only thing you said that doesn’t contradict the Catholic faith 😃
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
There are several clear cases of incest in the Old Testament. Lot, Abraham’s nephew, begat two sons by his own daughters while in a drunken stupor (Genesis 19:30-35). Moses recorded the sordid act as a matter of history, but there is no sanction of the sin in the sacred text. In fact it is placed in a decidedly negative light.
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That is correct. And furthermore, not only is it not sanctioned, but its condemned, although its not so obvious to those of us in the 21st century. The tribes that resulted from this incestuous incident are the Amonites and the Moabites - two bitter enemies to Israel. The lesson to the children of Israel is that incest is wrong.
 
Here’s another “dead Christ,” Christine…

To understand the picture, you have to understand two Bible “types,” or symbols.

First is the Linen Type, which stands for “death.” Linen is made out of flax.

Second is the Donkey Type, which also stands for “unredeemed one doomed to die.” ***, mule, donkey, colt of an ***, all mean the same thing.

In Judges 15, after Samson destroys the grain of the Phillistines by fire, the Phillistines kill his wife and her family by way of revenge, so that Samson fights back “with great slaughter.”

After this Samson retires to the cavern in the cliff in Etam. Then, he is raised out of the cavern by ropes. He breaks the ropes “like flax consumed by fire,” and uses the jawbone of an *** to kill 1,000 Phillistines.

Samson retiring to the cavern is Christ being buried in the stone tomb. When he is raised by ropes and then he breaks out of the ropes “like flax consumed by fire,” that is Jesus conquering death and being resurrected. When he kills Phillistines with the “jawbone” of an *** that is Christ, after his resurrection, destroying evil with the “talk” about the “UNREDEEMED ONE DOOMED TO DIE.”

See Judges 15:5-17.
 
Peter_Dawson said:
Here’s another “dead Christ,” Christine…

To understand the picture, you have to understand two Bible “types,” or symbols.

First is the Linen Type, which stands for “death.” Linen is made out of flax.

Second is the Donkey Type, which also stands for “unredeemed one doomed to die.” ***, mule, donkey, colt of an ***, all mean the same thing.
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This is interesting. But how do we know that Linen stands for death and Donkey stands for “unredeemed one doomed to die”?

I’d be afraid that the scene of Jesus riding on the donkey to Jerusalem could be mis-interpreted.
 
Peter_Dawson said:
Here’s another “dead Christ,” Christine…

To understand the picture, you have to understand two Bible “types,” or symbols.

First is the Linen Type, which stands for “death.” Linen is made out of flax.

Second is the Donkey Type, which also stands for “unredeemed one doomed to die.” ***, mule, donkey, colt of an ***, all mean the same thing.

In Judges 15, after Samson destroys the grain of the Phillistines by fire, the Phillistines kill his wife and her family by way of revenge, so that Samson fights back “with great slaughter.”

After this Samson retires to the cavern in the cliff in Etam. Then, he is raised out of the cavern by ropes. He breaks the ropes “like flax consumed by fire,” and uses the jawbone of an *** to kill 1,000 Phillistines.

Samson retiring to the cavern is Christ being buried in the stone tomb. When he is raised by ropes and then he breaks out of the ropes “like flax consumed by fire,” that is Jesus conquering death and being resurrected. When he kills Phillistines with the “jawbone” of an *** that is Christ, after his resurrection, destroying evil with the “talk” about the “UNREDEEMED ONE DOOMED TO DIE.”

See Judges 15:5-17.
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Interesting! the linen as death I understand, because of Lazurus of Bethany, and the cloths that Jesus left behind after his resurrection, and even the disciple who fled naked when Jesus was arrested, leaving his linen cloth behind.

How about Baalam’s donkey, or when Christ came to Jerusalem riding on a donkey? How does that relate to your analogy of the unredeemed one?
 
NotWorthy said:
This is interesting. But how do we know that Linen stands for death and Donkey stands for “unredeemed one doomed to die”?

I’d be afraid that the scene of Jesus riding on the donkey to Jerusalem could be mis-interpreted.
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I agree. Could someone explain
 
NotWorthy said:
This is interesting. But how do we know that Linen stands for death and Donkey stands for “unredeemed one doomed to die”?

I’d be afraid that the scene of Jesus riding on the donkey to Jerusalem could be mis-interpreted.
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Great minds think alike!:rotfl:
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
Interesting! the linen as death I understand, because of Lazurus of Bethany, and the cloths that Jesus left behind after his resurrection, and even the disciple who fled naked when Jesus was arrested, leaving his linen cloth behind.
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But you are using scenes in the New Testament to “re-invent” OT Scriptures. Shouldn’t these OT Scriptures help us to see the fullness of the New Testament Scriptures?
 
NotWorthy said:
This is interesting. But how do we know that Linen stands for death and Donkey stands for “unredeemed one doomed to die”?

I’d be afraid that the scene of Jesus riding on the donkey to Jerusalem could be mis-interpreted.
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Hi, Not Worthy.

Think: If “Donkey” = “unredeemed one dokmed to die,” why would Jesus, at the time of His Messianic entry into Jerusalem, be riding the colt of an a**, one of the analogs for “Donkey”?
 
Peter_Dawson said:
Hi, Not Worthy.

Think: If “Donkey” = “unredeemed one dokmed to die,” why would Jesus, at the time of His Messianic entry into Jerusalem, be riding the colt of an a**, one of the analogs for “Donkey”?
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I’ll dwell on that. I have seen how the term colt, the foal of an a** refers to Gentiles and Jews… I’ll have to check that out further.

But again, how do we know about the donkey and linen Types?
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
Interesting! the linen as death I understand, because of Lazurus of Bethany, and the cloths that Jesus left behind after his resurrection, and even the disciple who fled naked when Jesus was arrested, leaving his linen cloth behind.

How about Baalam’s donkey, or when Christ came to Jerusalem riding on a donkey? How does that relate to your analogy of the unredeemed one?
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The Index Verse for the Donkey Type is Exodus 13:13. Read it and you will understand. I used to call it the A** Type, for obvious reasons, but too many folks responded to that in an immature fashion.

Christ rides on the colt of an a** at the time of His Messianic Entry because your are being told, by something called “Identification by Juxtaposition,” that “the one sitting ON the Exodus 13:13 a** is the unredeemed one doomed to die, just like the a**.” A short time later, He was dead.
 
donkeys were impure animals so couldn’t be used for sacrifice. hence their necks had to be broken(firstlings are God’s) . Neck breaking is a non- sacrificial mode of dispatching an animal.The owner had to offer a sheep in place of the impure donkey or else break it’s neck.
Jesus was no impure sacrifice.
Donkeys, foals, colts asses - have one thing in common- they are not full grown horses. The horse were a frequent symbol of violence and destruction(4 horseman of the Apocalypse comes to mind). Donkeys ,etc.were a symbol of peace and meekness…
Kings of Israel and Judah rode in procession not on horses but on these meeker animals.
If you saw a horse in a procession you’d take to the hills- something bad was coming.!
Conquerors and occupiers used horses but a good ruler depends and works for peace-so no horse.
 
juliamajor said:
donkeys were impure animals so couldn’t be used for sacrifice. hence their necks had to be broken(firstlings are God’s) . Neck breaking is a non- sacrificial mode of dispatching an animal.The owner had to offer a sheep in place of the impure donkey or else break it’s neck.
Jesus was no impure sacrifice.
Donkeys, foals, colts asses - have one thing in common- they are not full grown horses. The horse were a frequent symbol of violence and destruction(4 horseman of the Apocalypse comes to mind). Donkeys ,etc.were a symbol of peace and meekness…
Kings of Israel and Judah rode in procession not on horses but on these meeker animals.
If you saw a horse in a procession you’d take to the hills- something bad was coming.!
Conquerors and occupiers used horses but a good ruler depends and works for peace-so no horse.
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Hi, Julia.

Nonetheless, the colt of an a**, a**es, donkeys and mules are all used to symbolized “the unredeemed one who is doomed to die,” Jesus. Sometimes, even the neck-braking is referred-to, typologically.

In the story of Jacob’s Deception, we see the Exodus 13:13 Unredeemed Colt of an a** referred to very cleverly. Not only does Jacob put sacrificed kid skins on his “HANDS” (“Christ”) but he puts it on his neck, too, reminding us of the “UNREDEEMED COLT OF AN A** WHICH MUST HAVE ITS NECK BROKEN.” So, Mr.-Sacrificed-Kid-Skin-Hands-and-Neck is Christ the Unredeemed One Doomed to Die. In the story we see Him offering His Own sacrificed flesah to His Faith to purchase a “blessing” on our behalf with it!!!

The bread and wine are offered at the same time because that is Identificvation by Juxtaposition telling us, “The bread and wine are the same stuff as the sacrificed flesh being offered here.”
 
Peter_Dawson said:
Hi, Julia.

Nonetheless, the colt of an a**, a**es, donkeys and mules are all used to symbolized “the unredeemed one who is doomed to die,” Jesus. Sometimes, even the neck-braking is referred-to, typologically.

In the story of Jacob’s Deception, we see the Exodus 13:13 Unredeemed Colt of an a** referred to very cleverly. Not only does Jacob put sacrificed kid skins on his “HANDS” (“Christ”) but he puts it on his neck, too, reminding us of the “UNREDEEMED COLT OF AN A** WHICH MUST HAVE ITS NECK BROKEN.” So, Mr.-Sacrificed-Kid-Skin-Hands-and-Neck is Christ the Unredeemed One Doomed to Die. In the story we see Him offering His Own sacrificed flesah to His Faith to purchase a “blessing” on our behalf with it!!!

The bread and wine are offered at the same time because that is Identificvation by Juxtaposition telling us, “The bread and wine are the same stuff as the sacrificed flesh being offered here.”
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typology is a beautiful thing. but there is also too much of a good thing sometimes.Sometimes things are what they say they are.Typology falls under theology- that’s not where I’m coming from. I come from a scripture exegete perspective. One must be afraid of extracting or reading into something that is not there at least bible scholars are.
Frankly I don’t see the analogy- at least from my bookish perspective.😊
 
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