Bible and poverty and bible and same sex relations

[zaida]

I read an interesting stat - that in the old and new testaments combined, you can find the call to end poverty mentioned over 300 times…and in both combined you can find teaching about same sex relations 8-15 times (depending on your interprtation of some passages)…

so, why do many in the Church seem to care SO much more about issues surrounding homosexuality than they do ending poverty?

 

[fermat]

The number of times that something is mentioned in the bible is not a measure of how much we should care about something. Passages in the bible that mention poverty are calling us to help our fellow man. Passages in the bible that condemn homosexual acts are about saving yourself from damnation. There is a big difference in the context of those messages.

I would also add that poverty in the bible is not always about not having enough money. Many times it is spiritual poverty, the willingness to submit to the will of God. Refraining from homosexual acts certainly falls under that category.

 

[Safia]

The number of times that something is mentioned in the bible is not a measure of how much we should care about something. Passages in the bible that mention poverty are calling us to help our fellow man. Passages in the bible that condemn homosexual acts are about saving yourself from damnation. There is a big difference in the context of those messages.

I would also add that poverty in the bible is not always about not having enough money. Many times it is spiritual poverty, the willingness to submit to the will of God. Refraining from homosexual acts certainly falls under that category.

Amen.

 

[zaida]

oh but SURELY Jesus linked salvation to how we care for the poor!

“when did I know you? You fed me when I was hungry”… when did I deny you? You did not feed the hungry"…(ofcourse, MAJOR paraphrase here, but you will know the scripture I am pointing to)…Jesus directly says " as you have done it to the least of these my brethren, so you have done it unto me"…

How can any Catholic claim there is not a connection between how we treat the oppressed and salvation?

 

[AlexPetrosPio]

oh but SURELY Jesus linked salvation to how we care for the poor!

“when did I know you? You fed me when I was hungry”… when did I deny you? You did not feed the hungry"…(ofcourse, MAJOR paraphrase here, but you will know the scripture I am pointing to)…Jesus directly says " as you have done it to the least of these my brethren, so you have done it unto me"…

How can any Catholic claim there is not a connection between how we treat the oppressed and salvation?

Are you then saying that the Church shouldn’t serve the poor AND also condemn homosexual acts? Because the Church does do both…

 

[Iron_Donkey]

oh but SURELY Jesus linked salvation to how we care for the poor!

“when did I know you? You fed me when I was hungry”… when did I deny you? You did not feed the hungry"…(ofcourse, MAJOR paraphrase here, but you will know the scripture I am pointing to)…Jesus directly says " as you have done it to the least of these my brethren, so you have done it unto me"…

How can any Catholic claim there is not a connection between how we treat the oppressed and salvation?

No Catholic (or no sane Catholic, at any rate) makes that claim.

Caring for the poor is extremely important.

This does not conflict with saying that sexual morality is extremely important.

The reason why a lot of people “make a big deal” about sexual morality but don’t always talk so much about helping the poor (at least in some places - in others that’s all you’ll hear about) these days is that nearly everyone knows it’s important to care for the poor. So there’s not much reason to go around saying that we should care for the poor over and over again - we all know that, better to just get out and do it. (See Catholic Charities, etc.) There is a problem, but not one we’re confused about.

Whereas the culture these days IS really confused about sexual morality, and the only way to combat that problem is to talk about it. In this case, we not only have a problem, but a problem which many people don’t understand.

It would be hard to say which issue is more important. It may be impossible. But it is also irrelevant, since either issue is more than enough to send a person to Hell.

 

[Spencerian]

oh but SURELY Jesus linked salvation to how we care for the poor!

“when did I know you? You fed me when I was hungry”… when did I deny you? You did not feed the hungry"…(ofcourse, MAJOR paraphrase here, but you will know the scripture I am pointing to)…Jesus directly says " as you have done it to the least of these my brethren, so you have done it unto me"…

How can any Catholic claim there is not a connection between how we treat the oppressed and salvation?

Sin is sin.

In the case of the Catholic Church, we are the largest charitable force on the planet (through Catholic Relief Services, Food for the Poor, and Catholic Charities). No other group does more for the poor than these agencies anywhere in the world.

And, unlike most other Christian faiths that share common orthodox beliefs of the Trinity, the Catholic Church is the only faith that remains steadfast in its conviction of the problems of same-sex attraction, the Scriptural requirements of the priesthood, and its abhorrence to abortion and artificial birth control, whereas other faiths have, in the recent years, changed their teachings, caving to popular opinion, peer or financial pressures or worse.

For Catholics, it’s always “Both-And.” We affirm the dignity of **all **people, rich and poor, born and unborn, sinful or pious, heterosexual or homosexual–but we also see that the better path that God teaches us is not the easiest one, and do not treat our followers like “buddies” (telling them to enjoy but abandoning or condemning them when they don’t follow “our way” or “ruining the fun”) but as **friends **(always supportive and patient in good times and bad, but only tolerating immoral behavior when a person is invincibly ignorant or shows contrition in understanding why they are in sin as they work it out).

The Church combats sin as strongly as it combats the ills of the poor.

 

[zaida]

I understand that “both/and”, I like that way of phrasing…

I dont agree with the poster who said “nearly everyone knows that helping the poor is important”…in a world where children starve to death daily, Im sure thats not the case at all…I think we as christians need to be yelling from the rooftops about poverty…and not be complacent…and not just assume catholic charities and catholic relief services are there doing the work for us…I include myself in this, I know I dont do enough…

 

[Iron_Donkey]

I understand that “both/and”, I like that way of phrasing…

I dont agree with the poster who said “nearly everyone knows that helping the poor is important”…in a world where children starve to death daily, Im sure thats not the case at all…I think we as christians need to be yelling from the rooftops about poverty…and not be complacent…and not just assume catholic charities and catholic relief services are there doing the work for us…I include myself in this, I know I dont do enough…

True - I did not mean to imply that we are doing all we can.

What I meant to imply is that we know that we should help the poor, and so we should do it. Perhaps add in a comment that we should exhort each other to do so. There isn’t really an awful lot of teaching that needs to be done, just action and promoting of action.

Whereas in the case of sexuality, we need both teaching of what is morally correct because we’re confused, as well as exhortation to live by these morals.

But again, both issues are critically important - I think we agree there. (And probably don’t disagree an awful lot elsewhere.)

 

[zaida]

Yes Iron Monkey, I think we have some agreement

 

[DexUK]

For Catholics, it’s always “Both-And.” We affirm the dignity of **all **people, rich and poor, born and unborn, sinful or pious, heterosexual or homosexual–but we also see that the better path that God teaches us is not the easiest one, and do not treat our followers like “buddies” (telling them to enjoy but abandoning or condemning them when they don’t follow “our way” or “ruining the fun”) but as **friends **(always supportive and patient in good times and bad, but only tolerating immoral behavior when a person is invincibly ignorant or shows contrition in understanding why they are in sin as they work it out).

I can tell you that worthy as this statement is, and exactly true to how it SHOULD be, it certainly isn’t always the case. Too many people have a great tendency towards judgementalism and uncharitability. I look forward to the day when all people can life up to that idea.

As far as the opening post is concerned, the Bible barely mentions homosexuality, but we as Catholics do tend to get rather worked up about it. I think a lot of people think to be homosexually inclined is to be worse than the Church actually believes it is - and have gained that view from a lot of fire and light that’s created by Protestant Fundamentalism rather than the actually very kind and loving approach that’s within the actual teaching of the Church (rather than lots of unkind and uncharitable interpretation of it, including by many Catholics).

We really do need to show that there are lots of other really important things to talk about otherwise we give the impression that we’re thoroughly obsessed.