Bible and Qu'ran

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The Bible is the word of God the other is Koran is literally a book of fairy tales.

The Coran is not even up to the level of fairy tales.

It’s the ravings of a pedophile who was deceived by demons.
 
Cluny said:
The Bible is the word of God the other is Koran is literally a book of fairy tales.

The Coran is not even up to the level of fairy tales.

It’s the ravings of a pedophile who was deceived by demons.
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Let me preface this by the fact that I am Christian before this ends in a huge argument about such.
  1. The Bible is a book of holy scriptures that has been passed down for centuries. Sadly, it has been written, adapted, added to and deleted from that it’s hard to say what is there from the beginning versus what is there now.
  2. The Qu’ran is the religious scripture of the Islamic religion. It is a guidance, rarely with historical context, written to guide those who follow Islam. Much like any religion, it can be construed, rewritten, and taken out of context.
Hatred of a people is not limited to just the Islamic people. There has yet to be a mainstream religion that hasn’t used religious right to destroy another group. You can choose to continue the hatred or you can follow your own faith and leave others to answer for themselves with God.
 
Catarina said:
Let me preface this by the fact that I am Christian before this ends in a huge argument about such.
  1. The Bible is a book of holy scriptures that has been passed down for centuries. Sadly, it has been written, adapted, added to and deleted from that it’s hard to say what is there from the beginning versus what is there now.
  2. The Qu’ran is the religious scripture of the Islamic religion. It is a guidance, rarely with historical context, written to guide those who follow Islam. Much like any religion, it can be construed, rewritten, and taken out of context.
Hatred of a people is not limited to just the Islamic people. There has yet to be a mainstream religion that hasn’t used religious right to destroy another group. You can choose to continue the hatred or you can follow your own faith and leave others to answer for themselves with God.
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the difference is that the koran does indeed command its followers to kill, torture and wage jihad in allah’s name. To hate Jews and Christians and other abominable things.

mohammed and his followers committed so many atrocities and sins against the 10 commandments - mohammed redefined sin. This is why there is no law in their sharia laws for non-muslim’s. They have no rights and if something happens to them - sharia laws don’t care. There is very little concerning their own women and honor killings in sharia laws too.

There is no command to do such things in the Bible. the Bible tells us of stories of things that happened, but the command that comes down are basically still the 10 commandments.

9:123 O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).

4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,”

Here is a good one - (9:11) “If they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion.”
Treat converts to Islam well. (Kill those who refuse to convert. See 9:5)

So, basically - either you convert or you die.

9:29 Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Here - fight or accept subjugation. Make sure they ‘feeeeel’ subdued too!

And don’t tell me it is for wartime - there is no mention of wartime in this surah. But, here again there is no mention of war time - but muslims are in a constant state of war with non-muslims until sharia laws are established and the non-muslims either convert or accept subjugation.

I could take up pages on posts such as this from the koran. These are commands the muslims follow.

Haven’t you wondered why none of the muslims are rioting in the streets anymore about what is happening in Gaza? That is because they have broken the truce with Israel and have resumed lobbing missiles into Israel. That is ok - it isn’t ok for non-muslims to defend themselves. And if they do you will hear about more riots in the streets from muslims - yeah, those ‘peaceful’ ones.
 
Allah cursed the Jews and transformed some of them into apes and pigs is thrice repeated in the Qur’an: 2:63-66, 5:59-60, and 7:166.

We have a commandment about lying we are not supposed to lie. Yes, it happens but it is not commanded of us to do in the Bible.

Since Islam allows lying to the unbelievers, how do you know they’re speaking sincerely?

The Qur’an:
Sura (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can “compel” a Muslim to tell a lie.

Sura (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to “guard themselves.”

Sura (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must “hide his faith” among those who are not believers.

Sura (2:225) - “Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts”

Sura (66:2) - “Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths” Taken collectively these verses are interpreted to mean that there are circumstances when a Muslim may be “compelled” to deceive others for a greater purpose.
 
Now terror and unbelievers is a big thing in the koran. Please show me where it says to do such things in the Bible for millenia!

Terror 3:151
We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust.

8:60
And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to terrorize thereby the enemy of Allah…

8:12
I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

Moreover Allah says of those who reject him. Because, Allah has already sentenced them to death.

Unbelievers
2:191, And slay them wherever ye catch them

2:193, And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression (my comment: oppression to a muslim is not letting them subjugate us under sharia laws if we chose not to be muslims)

2:216, Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you

3:28, Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah

4:48 “Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.”

4:84, Then fight in Allah’s cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment.

4:141, And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way (to triumphs) over the believers

5:33, The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;

8:12, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

… ad nauseum… there were so many surahs that it goes over the posting limits. It is basically more of the same - commands to kill, torture unbelievers.
 
I guess I have to just say that they have never proven that the Bible was corrupted. The koran was thought up by mohammed on a day to day basis, quite often he forgot what he said the previous day/week/month, and so we find contradictions, and stories that make no sense, and Bible stories with many contradictions to the Biblical stories.

Since he was not a Christian or a Jew, but a pagan - and a pagan who couldn’t read or write - how can anyone take his word on anything in that koran being accurate?

He is a self-proclaimed prophet, not from the line of prophets. He changed the message of the previous prophets. He changed his koran quite often too to suit his needs. There was never proof from God that he was a prophet.

Part of the problem with the koran is that it is based on the Bible being corrupted. And even the articles state we do indeed have reliable manuscripts of the Bible. The first of the koran wasn’t even written until well over a century after mohammed died. No one who knew him wrote anything - it was all from memory. And even other historical documents contradicts what the koran says on some things (go figure - more contradictions).

And in the Conclusion section of ‘Bible and Qu’ran: An Historical Comparison (Christian view)’ we see that the continued assertion that the koran is unchanged doesn’t even apply to its earliest version and its current version.

So the koran is not even consistent with itself.

And the argument for the scientific comparison of the Bible and koran (the muslim view) was just totally inane. I found nothing scientific in that article.
 
R_not said:
I guess I have to just say that they have never proven that the Bible was corrupted. The koran was thought up by mohammed on a day to day basis, quite often he forgot what he said the previous day/week/month, and so we find contradictions, and stories that make no sense, and Bible stories with many contradictions to the Biblical stories.

Since he was not a Christian or a Jew, but a pagan - and a pagan who couldn’t read or write - how can anyone take his word on anything in that koran being accurate?

He is a self-proclaimed prophet, not from the line of prophets. He changed the message of the previous prophets. He changed his koran quite often too to suit his needs. There was never proof from God that he was a prophet.

Part of the problem with the koran is that it is based on the Bible being corrupted. And even the articles state we do indeed have reliable manuscripts of the Bible. The first of the koran wasn’t even written until well over a century after mohammed died. No one who knew him wrote anything - it was all from memory. And even other historical documents contradicts what the koran says on some things (go figure - more contradictions).

And in the Conclusion section of ‘Bible and Qu’ran: An Historical Comparison (Christian view)’ we see that the continued assertion that the koran is unchanged doesn’t even apply to its earliest version and its current version.

So the koran is not even consistent with itself.

And the argument for the scientific comparison of the Bible and koran (the muslim view) was just totally inane. I found nothing scientific in that article.
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Although I never read the Koran, I did read “The Truth About Muhammed” by Robert Spencer, and in it he stated that an obvious mistake in the Koran was the description of the Holy Trinity. Mohammed had described the three persons in one as being Father, Son and Mother Mary. Despite the fact that by the 7th century, the Holy Trinity had been delineated in the Nicene Creed for more than several centuries.
 
josie_L said:
Although I never read the Koran, I did read “The Truth About Muhammed” by Robert Spencer, and in it he stated that a glaringly obvious mistake in the Koran was the description of the Holy Trinity. Mohammed had described the three persons in one as being Father, Son and Mother Mary. Despite the fact that by the 7th century, the Holy Trinity had been expressed in the Nicene Creed for more than several centuries.
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I encourage you to read the Qu’ran.
 
josie_L said:
Although I never read the Koran, I did read “The Truth About Muhammed” by Robert Spencer, and in it he stated that an obvious mistake in the Koran was the description of the Holy Trinity. Mohammed had described the three persons in one as being Father, Son and Mother Mary. Despite the fact that by the 7th century, the Holy Trinity had been delineated in the Nicene Creed for more than several centuries.
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Yeah, that was because mohammed didn’t have a clue. He wasn’t a Jew, nor was he a Christian - he was an illiterate pagan, and allah was the main god of a pantheon of gods and goddesses. He basically took that allah, inserted himself into it (it degenerated as he, mohammed, degenerated) and made it into one nasty, hateful, deceptive, god overly concerned with mohammed’s sex life. :eek:

Anyway, the request to read the koran is so you have a better idea of what we talk about.

Unfortunately, here is the bad news - there is no order to it, it can leave your mind ‘tweeked’ but not in the way that it would convert you to anything it has to say, but just that it can give one a headache.

I had to read it to know what they followed. Why did they hate us? And I found out why. You know - that sort of thing. Why did they have all these fatwas (or declarations of war) against us? Why did they attack civilians, and not only kill them if they were collateral damage, but they AIMED for them! It is all the things their ‘perfect man’ did, the one they emulate.

No infidel is considered innocent.

Anyway, that I why I read the thing. And that ‘holey’ (misspelled on purpose) book, isn’t really that holy.
 
R_not said:
Yeah, that was because mohammed didn’t have a clue. He wasn’t a Jew, nor was he a Christian - he was an illiterate pagan, and allah was the main god of a pantheon of gods and goddesses. He basically took that allah, inserted himself into it (it degenerated as he, mohammed, degenerated) and made it into one nasty, hateful, deceptive, god overly concerned with mohammed’s sex life. :eek:

Anyway, the request to read the koran is so you have a better idea of what we talk about.

Unfortunately, here is the bad news - there is no order to it, it can leave your mind ‘tweeked’ but not in the way that it would convert you to anything it has to say, but just that it can give one a headache.

I had to read it to know what they followed. Why did they hate us? And I found out why. You know - that sort of thing. Why did they have all these fatwas (or declarations of war) against us? Why did they attack civilians, and not only kill them if they were collateral damage, but they AIMED for them! It is all the things their ‘perfect man’ did, the one they emulate.

No infidel is considered innocent.

Anyway, that I why I read the thing. And that ‘holey’ (misspelled on purpose) book, isn’t really that holy.
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I’m already learning it piecemeal, as many of you post quotes from the Koran. I’ve got a pretty fair idea of what’s in it, can’t say I like what I hear. :eek:
 
Eucharisted said:
You’ll get to understand Islam more. Knowledge is power.
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I’ve been reading books about Islam, I’ve read 2 from Robert Spencer and another by Oriana Fallaci. The one by Fallaci was written right after 9/11 and as her title suggests (The Rage and The Pride) she was in a rage when she wrote it. I have also read “America Alone” by Mark Steyn. Did you know he was brought before the Human Rights Commission in Canada on the charge of a Hate crime on the basis of that book?
 
R_not said:
I guess I have to just say that they have never proven that the Bible was corrupted. The koran was thought up by mohammed on a day to day basis, quite often he forgot what he said the previous day/week/month, and so we find contradictions, and stories that make no sense, and Bible stories with many contradictions to the Biblical stories.

Since he was not a Christian or a Jew, but a pagan - and a pagan who couldn’t read or write - how can anyone take his word on anything in that koran being accurate?

He is a self-proclaimed prophet, not from the line of prophets. He changed the message of the previous prophets. He changed his koran quite often too to suit his needs. There was never proof from God that he was a prophet.

Part of the problem with the koran is that it is based on the Bible being corrupted. And even the articles state we do indeed have reliable manuscripts of the Bible. The first of the koran wasn’t even written until well over a century after mohammed died. No one who knew him wrote anything - it was all from memory. And even other historical documents contradicts what the koran says on some things (go figure - more contradictions).

And in the Conclusion section of ‘Bible and Qu’ran: An Historical Comparison (Christian view)’ we see that the continued assertion that the koran is unchanged doesn’t even apply to its earliest version and its current version.

So the koran is not even consistent with itself.

And the argument for the scientific comparison of the Bible and koran (the muslim view) was just totally inane. I found nothing scientific in that article.
Click to expand...
To me the biggest problem with legitimacy for the Quran is its own assertion that the OT and NT have been corrupted. Its the same problem that Protestants run into by claiming that the Church became corrupted. For Protestants the problem is that if the Church was corrupted then they can’t trust the Bible they use since the Church is the institution that compiled it. Muslims have a problem that if the book and institutions (Bible, the Church and Judaism) were corrupted then why do we believe that the God they introduced is even real. Islam cannot stand if the Bible is correct. Yet if the Bible is wrong then its cosmological basis cannot be trusted.

If the Jews and Christians were corrupted then why should the world even believe in God?
 
rtconstant said:
To me the biggest problem with legitimacy for the Quran is its own assertion that the OT and NT have been corrupted. Its the same problem that Protestants run into by claiming that the Church became corrupted. For Protestants the problem is that if the Church was corrupted then they can’t trust the Bible they use since the Church is the institution that compiled it. Muslims have a problem that if the book and institutions (Bible, the Church and Judaism) were corrupted then why do we believe that the God they introduced is even real. Islam cannot stand if the Bible is correct. Yet if the Bible is wrong then its cosmological basis cannot be trusted.

If the Jews and Christians were corrupted then why should the world even believe in God?
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Excellent point rtconstant.

To add to the confusion, we have abrogation (roughly 61% of the sura’s have one of three types of abrogation within them).♠️ The verses where muslims are commanded that the people of the Book have the truth, are abrogated. 🤷
 
Catarina said:
Hatred of a people is not limited to just the Islamic people. There has yet to be a mainstream religion that hasn’t used religious right to destroy another group. You can choose to continue the hatred or you can follow your own faith and leave others to answer for themselves with God.
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I have yet to see a Christian who has not been disappointed when discussing with Muslim posters here, especially when they do it for a long time. Disappointment can sound like hatred. Perhaps it is easy to say it from the outside to be charitable but once consistently unfairly challenged in your faith and doctrine, the flesh might not be willing.

Please participate here regularly and show us how to do it and be Christ-like because that’s what were are all called to.
 
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