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Nicea325
Guest
No offense,but if men are fallible,then why the need to found many denominations? The Bible belongs to God’s bride…the church.
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solarguy17
Guest
This is all I need.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NASB)
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
Is scripture is inspired by God, why do I need a man to tell me something different or add to something there?
2 Timothy 3:16-17 (NASB)
16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
Is scripture is inspired by God, why do I need a man to tell me something different or add to something there?
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PRmerger
Guest
Because what if there’s something else that’s part of God’s revelation?
The Scriptures don’t say that they are the ONLY thing that are inspired of God? That’s a man-made tradition to assume that, right?
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Robin_des_Bois
Guest
I’m not a Protestant, but I wish that the next Pope is the Maronite Patriarch Bechara Boutros al-Rahi from Lebanon. The Christians in the Middle-East are facing very hard times, and I think someone from this region would be the most placed to know how to deal with the situation.
Also, I appreciate Rahi’s attempts at building bridges between different religious groups, like he’s doing in his country (Lebanon).
Also, I appreciate Rahi’s attempts at building bridges between different religious groups, like he’s doing in his country (Lebanon).
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joe370
Guest
So just you as the final authority in terms of the interpretation and doctrinal discernment of sacred scripture?
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Adamski
Guest
Above doesnt say only scripture and
1 Timothy 3:15
New International Version (NIV)
15*if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
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rfournier103
Guest
Sir, I think the premise of the thread is: “is the Bible the SOLE authority?” I didn’t see in those two verses anything that says that the Bible is the ONLY authority.
1 Timothy 3:15 (NAB)
But if I should be delayed, you should know how to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.
This passage does not state that the Bible is the Sole Authority, either.
MOST Protestants subscribe to the twin pillars of Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura; whereas the Catholic Church is based on Written Tradition (Sacred Scripture) and Sacred Tradition (ashes on Ash Wed., palms on Palm Sunday, Order of the Mass, etc…).
I can’t seem to find the passage that tells us that the Bible ALONE is the ONLY authority over Christians…
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joe370
Guest
I looked and looked as a former protestant…It ain’t there…
And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.” …
So, you agree that the inspired word of God, when it says, “This is my body”, clearly means it is His body?
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MartinJordan
Guest
All scripture Paul is talking about is** past scripture**, the ones Timothy knew as a child.
But remember Paul had stated and instructed to the Thessalonians “stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle”
This means also not only scriptures past (OT) but the NT and what the Church leaders and their chosen elders said and wrote inspired by the Holy Spirit.
MJ
But remember Paul had stated and instructed to the Thessalonians “stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle”
This means also not only scriptures past (OT) but the NT and what the Church leaders and their chosen elders said and wrote inspired by the Holy Spirit.
MJ
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srtc10
Guest
As a “Protestant”, I wanted to know someone’s thoughts on this. What is the Magisterium’s relationship with the Scriptures? Is the Magisterium the “servant” of the Scriptures as I have heard some Catholics say?
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pablope
Guest
Hmmm…you forgot the verses before verse 16…here they are:
14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
Verse 14 speaks of the oral instruction Timothy received from Paul…and his teachers before Paul…and together with v15…is able to make Timothy wise…so it is not Scripture alone.
So take verse 14 to 17…it paints a totally different picture.
Besides, look at v15…it is speaking of Scripture Timothy learned frm infancy…there was not NT when Timothy was in infancy…is there?
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pablope
Guest
You know…the Bible says…in…from 1John 4…6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth and the spirit of falsehood.
To know the truth…it says listen to an Apostle…not read a book or the Bible.
So do you still believe the Bible is all you need?
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guanophore
Guest
This is an excellent question, solarguy17 and I think gets at the heart of the thread topic.
I think first it is important to look at what this verse actually is saying. I find that it is often misunderstood by those reading it. You are right, it says that scripture is inspired. Coming from God as it does it is “profitable”, and in some translations “useful”. This verse does NOT say we don’t need anything else, or that Scripture is the be all and end all of God’s revelation to man.
Next we look at what type of activities in which Scripture is profitable (useful). These activities include teaching, reproof, correction and training in rightousness. These are all parts of the Christian process of sanctification. What is the goal of all this teaching, reproving, correcting and training? That the man of God may be equipped. Scripture is useful in equipping the tasks of forming disciples.
Nowhere does it say that Scripture alone accomplishes these tasks. In fact, we find the contrary. To whom did God give these tasks?
Eph 4:10-14
10 He who descended is the same one who ascended far above all the heavens, so that he might fill all things.) 11 The gifts he gave were that some would be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until all of us come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to maturity, to the measure of the full stature of Christ.
Jesus gave the gift of teaching and pastoring to PEOPLE, and these PEOPLE are charged with the responsibilty to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. These PEOPLE find scripture useful/profitable in the tasks of equiping the saints.
So I think that St. Paul here answers your question clearly. You need the people appointed and gifted by Jesus to equip you for the work of the ministry. You need to benefit from their use of the Scripture as they reprove, correct and teach you according to the gifts that God has established. And in the next verses he concludes:
Eph 4:14-16
We must no longer be children, tossed to and fro and blown about by every wind of doctrine, by people’s trickery, by their craftiness in deceitful scheming. 15 But speaking the truth in love, we must grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the **whole body, joined and knit together by every ligament with which it is equipped, as each part is working properly, promotes the body’s growth in building itself up in love. **
You need it because Jesus established His Church, and He is buildign that Church in love. He provided the gifted people to profitably use the scriptures for the purpose of bringing us all to maturity.
You need those people because that is the way Jesus set it up. It is His church, so He gets to decide what you need, and how you are going to get your need met.
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guanophore
Guest
This is an excellent question, srtc10. You can find most answers to questions like this in the Catechism.
81 "Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit."42
"And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching."43
82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence."44
The notations are references to early church fathers and conciliar documents that reference the sources of the One Faith.
Jesus appointed a teaching authority over His One Church. He placed them on the ‘seat of Moses’ to instruct the disciples in the faith. That teaching and pastoring authority was passed from the Apostles to their successors, the Bishops. To them is entrusted the duty of preserving and passing on the One Faith that was committed once for all to the Church.
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joe370
Guest
Catechism of the CC:
86 “Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith.”
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aidanbradypop
Guest
You can never go wrong when answering with the CCC!
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srtc10
Guest
This is probably what the person I was talking to was referring to. Which authoritative piece (The Magisterium, ST, or Scripture) is superior or are they all three equally authoritative?Catechism of the CC:
86 “Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith.”
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aidanbradypop
Guest
I do not think it really comes down to which is “superior” to the other. I believe all three compliment one another in all matters of faith and salvation.
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rfournier103
Guest
Catechism of the CC:
86 “Yet this Magisterium is not superior to the Word of God, but is its servant. It teaches only what has been handed on to it. At the divine command and with the help of the Holy Spirit, it listens to this devotedly, guards it with dedication and expounds it faithfully. All that it proposes for belief as being divinely revealed is drawn from this single deposit of faith.”
I’m not a theologan like guanophore, but if I may add my two cents, I would say they all go hand in hand. The Church’s role regarding Scripture, is interpretation. The Catholic Church, like any other true Christian Church, may NOT contradict or alter the Sacred Scriptures. Think of it like this (VERY over-simplified)… In the United States we have the Founding Fathers (Apostles) who drafted the Constitution of the United States (the Bible). Unlike the Constitution, the Bible SHALL NOT BE AMENDED. The Supreme Court (clergy) interprets the Constitution.
None of our Sacred Traditions (many of which are handed down from Jesus and the Apostles themselves) may conflict with what is in Sacred Scripture. If there is something in Catholicism that strikes one as being in conflict with Scripture, it may be for one of three reasons:
First, one may not know where to locate it in the Scriptures. This happens all the time. You would be surprised what you can find if you just know where to look!
Secondly, it could be a matter of interpretation. Catholics may interpret something very different than non-Catholics. This also happens all the time.
Thirdly, there may not be anything in the Bible about it at all one way or the other. This may be part of Sacred Tradition, and not in conflict with Scripture.
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